Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Speaking as a big Nolan fan, I'm not sure why we "really really really" need him for the next Bond film, as if there's absolutely no one else who can handle the job.

    Because MI flopped. That's why.

    That's an odd response. I don't see how one less-than-usual BO result in a different film series, just this once, while still earning critial acclaim, necessitates the involvement of Nolan in the making of the next Bond film.

    Look, I've been a Nolan fan since the early days. I saw Memento and I was hooked. I caught up with Following, and I was in the theatre, time and again, for every next Nolan film. "Nolan for Bond" has been my motto since 2002. But I won't subscribe to some hysterical cult presenting Nolan as the Lord our savior, the condition sine qua non for Bond 26. I like to think that plenty of skilled people are out there who can deliver a great Bond film; it's just a matter of finding them. That said, if it's Nolan, I'm going to be superthrilled.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,574
    mtm wrote: »
    I just think if they snub Nolan then they REALLY have to make sure they have quality material because people are bound to make comparisons to "what could have been".

    ‘Snub Nolan’- so we’ve decided he’s definitely decided to do it and the ball is in Eon’s court, then.

    He's a lifelong fan, It's no secret he wants to do a Bond film. :)

    Saying he might like to do one ten years ago and deciding to pitch for the next one are two different things.
  • Posts: 1,425
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Speaking as a big Nolan fan, I'm not sure why we "really really really" need him for the next Bond film, as if there's absolutely no one else who can handle the job.

    Because MI flopped. That's why.

    That's an odd response. I don't see how one less-than-usual BO result in a different film series, just this once, while still earning critial acclaim, necessitates the involvement of Nolan in the making of the next Bond film.

    Look, I've been a Nolan fan since the early days. I saw Memento and I was hooked. I caught up with Following, and I was in the theatre, time and again, for every next Nolan film. "Nolan for Bond" has been my motto since 2002. But I won't subscribe to some hysterical cult presenting Nolan as the Lord our savior, the condition sine qua non for Bond 26. I like to think that plenty of skilled people are out there who can deliver a great Bond film; it's just a matter of finding them. That said, if it's Nolan, I'm going to be superthrilled.

    I don't think so. We need more than "another GoldenEye" or "another NTTD".

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2023 Posts: 24,250
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Speaking as a big Nolan fan, I'm not sure why we "really really really" need him for the next Bond film, as if there's absolutely no one else who can handle the job.

    Because MI flopped. That's why.

    That's an odd response. I don't see how one less-than-usual BO result in a different film series, just this once, while still earning critial acclaim, necessitates the involvement of Nolan in the making of the next Bond film.

    Look, I've been a Nolan fan since the early days. I saw Memento and I was hooked. I caught up with Following, and I was in the theatre, time and again, for every next Nolan film. "Nolan for Bond" has been my motto since 2002. But I won't subscribe to some hysterical cult presenting Nolan as the Lord our savior, the condition sine qua non for Bond 26. I like to think that plenty of skilled people are out there who can deliver a great Bond film; it's just a matter of finding them. That said, if it's Nolan, I'm going to be superthrilled.

    I don't think so. We need more than "another GoldenEye" or "another NTTD".

    You don't think so what? One- or two-sentence replies make it tough sometimes to keep the conversation going. ;-) Also, where did I mention another GE or another NTTD? Also, why would only Nolan make "not another GE" or "not another NTTD"? Where's this irrational fear coming from that no one else could make the proper Bond film?

    (For the record, I wouldn't mind "another GE". GE and CR are my favourite Bond films of the past 30 years.)
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 1,425
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Speaking as a big Nolan fan, I'm not sure why we "really really really" need him for the next Bond film, as if there's absolutely no one else who can handle the job.

    Because MI flopped. That's why.

    That's an odd response. I don't see how one less-than-usual BO result in a different film series, just this once, while still earning critial acclaim, necessitates the involvement of Nolan in the making of the next Bond film.

    Look, I've been a Nolan fan since the early days. I saw Memento and I was hooked. I caught up with Following, and I was in the theatre, time and again, for every next Nolan film. "Nolan for Bond" has been my motto since 2002. But I won't subscribe to some hysterical cult presenting Nolan as the Lord our savior, the condition sine qua non for Bond 26. I like to think that plenty of skilled people are out there who can deliver a great Bond film; it's just a matter of finding them. That said, if it's Nolan, I'm going to be superthrilled.

    I don't think so. We need more than "another GoldenEye" or "another NTTD".

    You don't think so what? One- or two-sentence replies make it tough sometimes to keep the conversation going. ;-) Also, where did I mention another GE or another NTTD? Also, why would only Nolan make "not another GE" or "not another NTTD"? Where's this irrational fear coming from that no one else could make the proper Bond film?

    (For the record, I wouldn't mind "another GE". GE and CR are my favourite Bond films of the past 30 years.)

    We don't need more copycats. We need the real one.

    And yeah, I don't think there are that many talented directors.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Speaking as a big Nolan fan, I'm not sure why we "really really really" need him for the next Bond film, as if there's absolutely no one else who can handle the job.

    Because MI flopped. That's why.

    That's an odd response. I don't see how one less-than-usual BO result in a different film series, just this once, while still earning critial acclaim, necessitates the involvement of Nolan in the making of the next Bond film.

    Look, I've been a Nolan fan since the early days. I saw Memento and I was hooked. I caught up with Following, and I was in the theatre, time and again, for every next Nolan film. "Nolan for Bond" has been my motto since 2002. But I won't subscribe to some hysterical cult presenting Nolan as the Lord our savior, the condition sine qua non for Bond 26. I like to think that plenty of skilled people are out there who can deliver a great Bond film; it's just a matter of finding them. That said, if it's Nolan, I'm going to be superthrilled.

    I don't think so. We need more than "another GoldenEye" or "another NTTD".

    You don't think so what? One- or two-sentence replies make it tough sometimes to keep the conversation going. ;-) Also, where did I mention another GE or another NTTD? Also, why would only Nolan make "not another GE" or "not another NTTD"? Where's this irrational fear coming from that no one else could make the proper Bond film?

    (For the record, I wouldn't mind "another GE". GE and CR are my favourite Bond films of the past 30 years.)

    We don't need more copycats. We need the real one.

    And yeah, I don't think there are that many talented directors.

    Very well, then. What will you do in case Nolan isn't announced as the next director?
  • Posts: 1,425
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Speaking as a big Nolan fan, I'm not sure why we "really really really" need him for the next Bond film, as if there's absolutely no one else who can handle the job.

    Because MI flopped. That's why.

    That's an odd response. I don't see how one less-than-usual BO result in a different film series, just this once, while still earning critial acclaim, necessitates the involvement of Nolan in the making of the next Bond film.

    Look, I've been a Nolan fan since the early days. I saw Memento and I was hooked. I caught up with Following, and I was in the theatre, time and again, for every next Nolan film. "Nolan for Bond" has been my motto since 2002. But I won't subscribe to some hysterical cult presenting Nolan as the Lord our savior, the condition sine qua non for Bond 26. I like to think that plenty of skilled people are out there who can deliver a great Bond film; it's just a matter of finding them. That said, if it's Nolan, I'm going to be superthrilled.

    I don't think so. We need more than "another GoldenEye" or "another NTTD".

    You don't think so what? One- or two-sentence replies make it tough sometimes to keep the conversation going. ;-) Also, where did I mention another GE or another NTTD? Also, why would only Nolan make "not another GE" or "not another NTTD"? Where's this irrational fear coming from that no one else could make the proper Bond film?

    (For the record, I wouldn't mind "another GE". GE and CR are my favourite Bond films of the past 30 years.)

    We don't need more copycats. We need the real one.

    And yeah, I don't think there are that many talented directors.

    Very well, then. What will you do in case Nolan isn't announced as the next director?

    I will cross fingers.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    When it comes to Bond, I think the proper director is always a fitting piece in a much bigger puzzle, and not necessarily that one big name from the Hollywood pantheon. Any director has to match with the guy who plays Bond, with the producers, with the type of production, ... Boyle was an excellent choice in my opinion, yet he walked because he was a piece of a different puzzle than the one they were doing.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    delfloria wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    If that’s true then Tenet would have been more successful, even with Covid.

    MI not doing well was based on a few things. The studios didn’t predict the extent to which ‘Barbenheimer’ would take off and their film got sidelined. Add to that MI is a series with a relatively soft fanbase compared to Bond (financially it’s never made as much money as Bond, and I don’t think it has that same dedicated fanbase, most of whom are older and more specific demographic wise to Bond), and because it was a two parter a big chunk of people simply decided it wasn’t worth going to the cinemas/decided to catch them at home later on, you have an underwhelming film. If a Bond film had been released in MI’s place it would have done better.

    Tom Cruise is a star. The new Bond, well...I don't think so.

    The risk is real. Bond's fanbase is too old now.

    So, does EON make a Bond film for the older audience (who are not generally film goers) or strive for a new young base of fans? Does a new Bond interpretation need a whole new perspective to bring in a new generation of fans?
    I don't think it's as complicated as that - personally. They just need to create a great James Bond film that kicks off a new era, just like Casino Royale, Goldeneye and other first entries of a new era did. Everything else will come naturally. I'd seen James Bond films, but Casino Royale was the first film I saw in the cinemas and really solidified my standing as a fan of the series leading to me here now, and I think Bond 26 can do the same as well as keep the older fans happy. I think it all comes naturally. The creatives involved don't need to think about that too much. There are bigger things to think about in my opinion when EON consider the future of the series.

    I'd like to say as well that overall I think there's still a lot of interest in the franchise and it's still a monolith in the movie space and movie culture overall. I think more general fans or just films fans in general, outside of the world of James Bond, just need that refresher to feel like they can jump in and really enjoy it because considering how long Daniel Craig's era was along with the serial nature of them that gradually (and sometimes quite unevenly) unfolded, as well as how much the world had changed in those fifteen years, by the release of No Time To Die, they and even us to some degree needed something fresh and new.

    But again, to hammer the point home, I don't think the age of an audience plays that big a part.
  • Posts: 4,273
    Denbigh wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    If that’s true then Tenet would have been more successful, even with Covid.

    MI not doing well was based on a few things. The studios didn’t predict the extent to which ‘Barbenheimer’ would take off and their film got sidelined. Add to that MI is a series with a relatively soft fanbase compared to Bond (financially it’s never made as much money as Bond, and I don’t think it has that same dedicated fanbase, most of whom are older and more specific demographic wise to Bond), and because it was a two parter a big chunk of people simply decided it wasn’t worth going to the cinemas/decided to catch them at home later on, you have an underwhelming film. If a Bond film had been released in MI’s place it would have done better.

    Tom Cruise is a star. The new Bond, well...I don't think so.

    The risk is real. Bond's fanbase is too old now.

    So, does EON make a Bond film for the older audience (who are not generally film goers) or strive for a new young base of fans? Does a new Bond interpretation need a whole new perspective to bring in a new generation of fans?
    I don't think it's as complicated as that - personally. They just need to create a great James Bond film that kicks off a new era, just like Casino Royale, Goldeneye and other first entries of a new era did. Everything else will come naturally. I'd seen James Bond films, but Casino Royale was the first film I saw in the cinemas and really solidified my standing as a fan of the series leading to me here now, and I think Bond 26 can do the same as well as keep the older fans happy. I think it all comes naturally. The creatives involved don't need to think about that too much. There are bigger things to think about in my opinion when EON consider the future of the series.

    I'd like to say as well that overall I think there's still a lot of interest in the franchise and it's still a monolith in the movie space and movie culture overall. I think more general fans or just films fans in general, outside of the world of James Bond, just need that refresher to feel like they can jump in and really enjoy it because considering how long Daniel Craig's era was along with the serial nature of them that gradually (and sometimes quite unevenly) unfolded, as well as how much the world had changed in those fifteen years, by the release of No Time To Die, they and even us to some degree needed something fresh and new.

    But again, to hammer the point home, I don't think the age of an audience plays that big a part.

    Pretty much. The worst thing EON can do is try to pander to ‘young’ audiences. They just need to create a modern Bond film.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »
    Plus, the last guy was supposed to be a top-notch director and look what we got.

    Agreed. :-&

    He directed the film that was written for him. Wanna blame someone if you didn't like NTTD, don't blame CJF for it. Blame the writers and Barb.

    @Last_Rat_Standing ... Cary was one of the screenwriters.... In fact he executed a page one rewrite based off of the original P & W script.... Then I believe Scott Burns next came on board for a two week polish on the action sequences, then PWB was the next writer hired, I believe, with Fukunaga overseeing and polishing as they went along.

    And "Barb" had the writers and major players of the production read YOLT... And why would you just blame "Barb"? There's MGW, Gregg Wilson, ALL of their producing partners including in distribution....when a script is commissioned it has to be greenlit by an entire army of people (producers/financiers for obvious reasons (they're sinking a quarter of a billion dollars into one project), distributors because they have to sell the product to worldwide territories).

    So, if you want to heap blame there's a whole slew of people besides "Barb"...

    Personally, I love the flick; love it more since my first viewing...I should be blamed too, I suppose? After all I'm buying into this dreck!

    @peter
    I like NTTD and thought he directed the hell out of it. Now I had some issues with how some things played out. My initial comment was defending CJF in a way in which he shouldn't be the reason in which people didn't like NTTD.

    Excuse my shortness @Last_Rat_Standing , my fault. It read like you were slamming the film and the producer and writers.

    I apologize.

    In the end, like any project, especially ones that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, making films is a brutal task. It’s amazing that most films are watchable, let alone hits (which says something about the talent (from above line talent, to below line talent).

    Once again, my apologies, Last Rat Standing….
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    007HallY wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    If that’s true then Tenet would have been more successful, even with Covid.

    MI not doing well was based on a few things. The studios didn’t predict the extent to which ‘Barbenheimer’ would take off and their film got sidelined. Add to that MI is a series with a relatively soft fanbase compared to Bond (financially it’s never made as much money as Bond, and I don’t think it has that same dedicated fanbase, most of whom are older and more specific demographic wise to Bond), and because it was a two parter a big chunk of people simply decided it wasn’t worth going to the cinemas/decided to catch them at home later on, you have an underwhelming film. If a Bond film had been released in MI’s place it would have done better.

    Tom Cruise is a star. The new Bond, well...I don't think so.

    The risk is real. Bond's fanbase is too old now.

    So, does EON make a Bond film for the older audience (who are not generally film goers) or strive for a new young base of fans? Does a new Bond interpretation need a whole new perspective to bring in a new generation of fans?
    I don't think it's as complicated as that - personally. They just need to create a great James Bond film that kicks off a new era, just like Casino Royale, Goldeneye and other first entries of a new era did. Everything else will come naturally. I'd seen James Bond films, but Casino Royale was the first film I saw in the cinemas and really solidified my standing as a fan of the series leading to me here now, and I think Bond 26 can do the same as well as keep the older fans happy. I think it all comes naturally. The creatives involved don't need to think about that too much. There are bigger things to think about in my opinion when EON consider the future of the series.

    I'd like to say as well that overall I think there's still a lot of interest in the franchise and it's still a monolith in the movie space and movie culture overall. I think more general fans or just films fans in general, outside of the world of James Bond, just need that refresher to feel like they can jump in and really enjoy it because considering how long Daniel Craig's era was along with the serial nature of them that gradually (and sometimes quite unevenly) unfolded, as well as how much the world had changed in those fifteen years, by the release of No Time To Die, they and even us to some degree needed something fresh and new.

    But again, to hammer the point home, I don't think the age of an audience plays that big a part.
    The worst thing EON can do is try to pander to ‘young’ audiences.
    Exactly. They don't need to, as I said the interest is already there in my opinion. For example, when the rumours were coming out about ATJ - all the trades were sharing it on their social media and there was a lot of engagement with it, from young and old, Bond fans or general film fans alike, which overall was generally quite positive, considering how divise these big studio casting rumours can go.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,154
    Denbigh wrote: »
    They just need to create a great James Bond film that kicks off a new era, just like Casino Royale, Goldeneye and other first entries of a new era did. Everything else will come naturally.
    That's the crux of it, I reckon. Both GE and CR re-energised the series and did a great job of setting up the next run. Bond 26 needs to do that too. Pretty sure EON understand that as much as or more than anybody. So, yes, IMO they actually will go for an actor that'll engage a younger audience who see the new guy as 'their' Bond, just as Dan did in 2005, and a veritable stonker of a movie that fires on all cylinders. It'll be worth the wait!
  • Posts: 2,022
    @Venutius - Let's hope it will be worth the wait. A review of the BO dud The Marvels refers to it as a film you've seen 32 times before.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2023 Posts: 16,574
    Which to be honest, as good as it was, was the feeling I had when watching GoldenEye for the first time.
    CR, on the other hand, really was an exciting new start.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    mtm wrote: »
    Which to be honest, as good as it was, was the feeling I had when watching GoldenEye for the first time.
    CR, on the other hand, really was an exciting new start.

    nah, goldeneye was great.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2023 Posts: 16,574
    mtm wrote: »
    Which to be honest, as good as it was, was the feeling I had when watching GoldenEye for the first time.
    CR, on the other hand, really was an exciting new start.

    nah, goldeneye was great.

    I didn't say it wasn't, I was saying what my reaction to it was and how I found it not to be all that fresh a new start. Ultimately it's an 80s John Glen Bond film given a very slight new coat of paint.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,243
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Which to be honest, as good as it was, was the feeling I had when watching GoldenEye for the first time.
    CR, on the other hand, really was an exciting new start.

    nah, goldeneye was great.

    I didn't say it wasn't, I was saying my reaction to it and how I found it not to be all that fresh a new start.

    I agree; as good as it was, GE’s DNA was very similar to what had come previously. While retaining certain elements, after all it is James Bond, CR truly felt like something remarkably fresh. I love both but for different reasons.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,036
    In many ways GE feels like Dalton's 3rd film. It has the Cold War elements along with a cold, gray look. The music has an 80's flare to it. It's also seemingly like TLD's spiritual successor given the opening is from 1986? 1987? Black jumpsuit and all ie. TLD.

    TND onwards feels like a new era.
  • Posts: 1,425
    In many ways GE feels like Dalton's 3rd film. It has the Cold War elements along with a cold, gray look. The music has an 80's flare to it. It's also seemingly like TLD's spiritual successor given the opening is from 1986? 1987? Black jumpsuit and all ie. TLD.

    TND onwards feels like a new era.

    For me TND is the real 3rd Dalton film. His TSWLM.
  • Posts: 2,022
    For me the main character in GE could have had any name and the film would have worked as an exciting thriller. That he was called Bond made it a Bond film with hardly any connection to Fleming. It's a good film, but low on my list of favorite Bond films.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited November 2023 Posts: 1,667
    CrabKey wrote: »
    For me the main character in GE could have had any name and the film would have worked as an exciting thriller. That he was called Bond made it a Bond film with hardly any connection to Fleming. It's a good film, but low on my list of favorite Bond films.

    I respect your take, it is "new" and "glossy" and very cold and techno for its time. Stripped back in many ways, a reassessment of cinema Bond for sure.

    But he still flirts with Moneypenny, is at somewhat odds with M. but still loyal to (her), the most informed man in the room in the briefings, in great physical shape and not the very anti-Fleming "Banker Bond" he'd become in the next two films, it leans into his military background, we explore a broader 00 catalog with 006 and expand the potential for what sort of missions they can pull off as a team, Russia-focused plot and setting, as well as a very-Fleming tropical setting with a tech/space-oriented villain lair, a number of intelligent, beautiful women who can clearly hold their own and handle a weapon, hints of government coverup/corruption inherent in espionage, Fleming put Bond in an Aston DB and it's back again here in a great scene, and the entire thing is named after Fleming's own house. So for me, there's plenty of Fleming flavor, if nothing quite directly lifted beyond the title. And there's this scene, which I often forget is in the movie, but adds a lot of needed depth to Brosnan's Bond that I think they could have explored more, but it's still there.



    Interestingly, the comments on that YT video bring up the similarity of this scene and the Vesper beach conversation in Casino Royale.. it seems Martin Campbell has an echo. I'm curious what you think of Casino Royale if you see GE as an otherwise blank-canvas thriller.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    CrabKey wrote: »
    For me the main character in GE could have had any name and the film would have worked as an exciting thriller. That he was called Bond made it a Bond film with hardly any connection to Fleming. It's a good film, but low on my list of favorite Bond films.

    Same with CR.
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 4,273
    LucknFate wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    For me the main character in GE could have had any name and the film would have worked as an exciting thriller. That he was called Bond made it a Bond film with hardly any connection to Fleming. It's a good film, but low on my list of favorite Bond films.

    I respect your take, it is "new" and "glossy" and very cold and techno for its time. Stripped back in many ways, a reassessment of cinema Bond for sure.

    But he still flirts with Moneypenny, is at somewhat odds with M. but still loyal to (her), the most informed man in the room in the briefings, in great physical shape and not the very anti-Fleming "Banker Bond" he'd become in the next two films, it leans into his military background, we explore a broader 00 catalog with 006 and expand the potential for what sort of missions they can pull off as a team, Russia-focused plot and setting, as well as a very-Fleming tropical setting with a tech/space-oriented villain lair, a number of intelligent, beautiful women who can clearly hold their own and handle a weapon, hints of government coverup/corruption inherent in espionage, Fleming put Bond in an Aston DB and it's back again here in a great scene, and the entire thing is named after Fleming's own house. So for me, there's plenty of Fleming flavor, if nothing quite directly lifted beyond the title. And there's this scene, which I often forget is in the movie, but adds a lot of needed depth to Brosnan's Bond that I think they could have explored more, but it's still there.



    Interestingly, the comments on that YT video bring up the similarity of this scene and the Vesper beach conversation in Casino Royale.. it seems Martin Campbell has an echo. I'm curious what you think of Casino Royale if you see GE as an otherwise blank-canvas thriller.

    I'm always reminded of the 'Reflections in a Double Bourbon' chapter of GF when I watch that scene. I know some people aren't sold it, but I like Bond putting up this front when it comes to the very personal business of killing his former friend. For me it's very Fleming-esque.

    I'd go as far as to say GE is Brosnan's Bond at his most similar to the literary one, and I think it's by design of the script. Bond and Natalya getting captured/the interrogation with Mishkin is another scene where I can really see Fleming's character coming through (his whole 'you can take your chances with me' moment with Natlya, as well as the fact that he's childishly sarcastic towards Mishkin which is something Bond does in the books... I even like that Natalya has to step in and basically diffuse the situation).

    If anything I wish they had kept going down this route with Brosnan, at least after TND. He had much more humour than Dalton, which I think actually gave the opportunity to bring out more of Fleming's character. It's when he tried to act/convey anything deeper than that 'stoic facade' that his Bond falls apart in later instalments.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited November 2023 Posts: 1,667
    Speaking of GoldenEye, I had the idea today for a bit of a spin on a Bond adventure that could still deliver the dramatic/emotional gimmick/punch that the producers may be looking for (M. dying, Felix dying, Bond dying having been done...). Do a traditional PTS to intro the new Bond, then establish his mission with the MI6 regulars and get them established too. Then the twist walks in the door ... Bond will have a partner for the mission, be it another 00 or an interpreter or whoever, a new ally that stays with Bond and the audience for most of the adventure.

    They don't turn evil in a twist at the end, but you could kill them off after hopefully putting them and Bond on some sort of arc. It might not be fair to the new Bond actor though (nor the poor sap who's dying), unless it's a woman partner (whether or not there's romance, I personally think they should lean into that stuff where appropriate). Their mission together should isolate them, if not initially then at some point in the story, from MI6 etc. resources, and the story should try to find clever ways of taking advantage of two highly capable blunt instruments on the scene in its set pieces and action. Don't take this the wrong way, but imagine Bond using this mission partner as another gadget at his disposal, whether they're aware he sees it that way or not. It can start out like the orchestra scene in The Living Daylights with Bond and Saunders at odds with one another, then they grow to work together etc. I guess perhaps this could be critiqued for ripping some of U.N.C.L.E. setup as well. If it's a woman, maybe Bond and her are separated at the very end in the finale, she's presumed dead, and then she shows up in a later movie, perhaps evil or whatever sure.

    On a more comical note... another fun but maybe ridiculous suggestion I have would be establishing Bond's relationship with a lovely Bond girl through much of the movie, and then in the third act or whenever, either when backed into a corner or when they need some sort of tool or resource, she reveals she has a secret husband/spouse who can help in some way. Maybe her nonchalance and Bond's surprise can be played as a bit of a punchline, and it fits into the narrative of Bond enjoying the company of married women, the joke here being even when he's unaware of it for some time. It also affords you the script convenience of an easy-out from an action scene or something without going full Deus Ex Machina.
  • Posts: 4,273
    Personally, I think Bond going it alone when setting off of missions is often what makes these stories work. It just gives a sense that he's truly alone 'in the field', with any Bond girl coming later in the story.

    But I actually wouldn't mind seeing more 00s, or at least learning a bit more about the wider 00 section, in this new Bond era. I dunno, it occurs to me that such an elite unit of MI6 would be made up of former Special Forces or SAS types in their mid to late 20s. They'd presumably be a bit more 'by the book'. Bond of course is a former Naval officer who is in his 30s (at least) and has seemingly worked his way up to that position. He's obviously the best shot in the Service and one of the best agents in general (certainly M's favourite), but I can imagine to such a crowd he'd be considered reckless with his drinking, womanising and gambling, and there'd be a bit of resentment towards him due to his background compared to theirs and how much M values a comparatively reckless agent from a non-Special Forces background.

    It might be an extension of Nomi in NTTD, but I think it'd be interesting if there was some sort of resentment between Bond and the other 00 agents. Just a sense that in this world Bond isn't a member of that internal 'boys club' despite having the 00 number. Bond's a loner anyway so could be an interesting dynamic if the plot allowed for it. It might also be a clean way of subtly noting Bond's background as a Naval Commander without having to fundamentally change it.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,902
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Speaking of GoldenEye, I had the idea today for a bit of a spin on a Bond adventure that could still deliver the dramatic/emotional gimmick/punch that the producers may be looking for (M. dying, Felix dying, Bond dying having been done...). Do a traditional PTS to intro the new Bond, then establish his mission with the MI6 regulars and get them established too. Then the twist walks in the door ... Bond will have a partner for the mission, be it another 00 or an interpreter or whoever, a new ally that stays with Bond and the audience for most of the adventure.

    Proposed on Felix Unger Day, I note.

  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited November 2023 Posts: 1,667
    007HallY wrote: »
    Personally, I think Bond going it alone when setting off of missions is often what makes these stories work. It just gives a sense that he's truly alone 'in the field', with any Bond girl coming later in the story.

    But I actually wouldn't mind seeing more 00s, or at least learning a bit more about the wider 00 section, in this new Bond era. I dunno, it occurs to me that such an elite unit of MI6 would be made up of former Special Forces or SAS types in their mid to late 20s. They'd presumably be a bit more 'by the book'. Bond of course is a former Naval officer who is in his 30s (at least) and has seemingly worked his way up to that position. He's obviously the best shot in the Service and one of the best agents in general (certainly M's favourite), but I can imagine to such a crowd he'd be considered reckless with his drinking, womanising and gambling, and there'd be a bit of resentment towards him due to his background compared to theirs and how much M values a comparatively reckless agent from a non-Special Forces background.

    It might be an extension of Nomi in NTTD, but I think it'd be interesting if there was some sort of resentment between Bond and the other 00 agents. Just a sense that in this world Bond isn't a member of that internal 'boys club' despite having the 00 number. Bond's a loner anyway so could be an interesting dynamic if the plot allowed for it. It might also be a clean way of subtly noting Bond's background as a Naval Commander without having to fundamentally change it.

    Mission: Impossible keeps doing the "IMF agents all going after Ethan" plot, perhaps a few 00s are feared to have gone rogue and Bond has to go investigate and chase THEM down and sort them out, or kill them if need be. Naturally, once he finally confronts them, there's nuance to their actions and it challenges Bond's own loyalty or something. A bit of Apocalypse Now maybe. My mind jumps to the Athelstan of Wessex types maybe looking for a more prosperous and political future.
  • Posts: 2,022
    Perhaps too much of a wish, but I'd like to see a Bond film that doesn't remind me of something else I've seen: the rogue, the resignation, the missing file with the name of every agent on it, the ticking bomb, the infiltrator of the agency, the end of the world plot, etc.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Perhaps too much of a wish, but I'd like to see a Bond film that doesn't remind me of something else I've seen: the rogue, the resignation, the missing file with the name of every agent on it, the ticking bomb, the infiltrator of the agency, the end of the world plot, etc.

    FRWL
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