Where does Bond go after Craig?

1459460462464465681

Comments

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I don’t understand what you’re saying, @Univex .

    It seems the only thing some people did yesterday was not agree with one or two people.

    And I think there’s validity in asking: how would May propel the Bond narrative, or the story?

    And to further emphasize that’s a great question is to point out that the “quiet scenes” everyone has used as an example are actual character reveals about Bond and his job, or story reveals— sometimes both at the same time (Bond isn’t merely having a shave in Goldfinger’s plane; he outsmarted his foe as he slyly avoided their spying while he activated his homer. Then, for good measure, he sprayed the mirror to give his opponent a further “F” you).

    So, yeah, still not understanding the provocation, 😂!

    But whatever, moving on…. 😂
  • Posts: 4,164
    Part of me thinks if May ever makes an appearance in a film it’ll be through dialogue only. Kinda surprised this wasn't done in the Craig era during SF or SP - I dunno, someone mentioning Bond’s housekeeper kept his flat in SF, or she let Moneypenny in during SP or something… just a line that adds little but is a little wink to fans of the novels.

    Not that it adds much, but that’s likely the sort of reference we’ll get, and it could be nice.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    Part of me thinks if May ever makes an appearance in a film it’ll be through dialogue only. Kinda surprised this wasn't done in the Craig era during SF or SP - I dunno, someone mentioning Bond’s housekeeper kept his flat in SF, or she let Moneypenny in during SP or something… just a line that adds little but is a little wink to fans of the novels.

    Not that it adds much, but that’s likely the sort of reference we’ll get, and it could be nice.

    Nice @007HallY , and that would be a neat little thing to slip in there. It would satisfy the fans and would be more effective than watching her puttering about as he eats a boiled egg, or having her in his ear as she scrambles his eggs…
  • edited January 29 Posts: 6,709
    Edited
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 28 Posts: 16,415
    007HallY wrote: »
    Part of me thinks if May ever makes an appearance in a film it’ll be through dialogue only. Kinda surprised this wasn't done in the Craig era during SF or SP - I dunno, someone mentioning Bond’s housekeeper kept his flat in SF, or she let Moneypenny in during SP or something… just a line that adds little but is a little wink to fans of the novels.

    Not that it adds much, but that’s likely the sort of reference we’ll get, and it could be nice.

    That’s fun, I could go with that. The SF version would definitely make sense I think. It’s quite fun to think what opportunities in the old films they perhaps had to include her.

    It’s funny, I was thinking of examples of Bond going about his domestic activities in the films, and I thought of NTTD and how we see his life on the island. But, and correct me if I’m wrong Peter, I’d say that’s there to establish his new life; and when we see him doing something as ordinary as cleaning his teeth, that’s both a bit of a character sketch and is actually (surprisingly!) important to the plot- as the toothbrush comes up later with all the DNA stuff.
    That said, with a new Bond, establishing his 2020s lifestyle might well be a valuable part of the next film. It is really interesting to think about this stuff and how films like these are constructed.
  • edited January 28 Posts: 346
    Imho the Bond producers have dug themselves an awful hole by killing off James Bond. This was completely unnecessary because Eon never hinted Bond 25 was their last Bond film. Did anyone at Eon or MGM say "hold on a second, if we let Daniel Craig's Bond die at the end of Bond 25 what are we going to do in Bond 26? Is this going to be Bond Reborn, old Bond remade? Do we just assume the audience won't care that Bond is dead in Bond 25 but alive in Bond 26?"

    Was this talked about? Who knows!

    I think Eon should call it a day. They've killed off Bond. Barbara and MG will become billionaires if they sell up. They don't need that crazy amount of money but they could give some of the cash to a charity or to a film making school or something. They could use the sale of Bond to fund their own films. I'm just saying they can use the money in a productive way. They don't need to leave it all in a bank account.

    Amazon may not produce better Bond films than Eon but they will come with a fresh perspective. For better or worse Barbara and Michael decided to kill off Bond so where is there to take the franchise? It's literally dead. I can't imagine Eon getting that excited by exhuming the franchise and rebooting it. We all know Barbara loved Daniel as Bond, she wanted him to carry on, so she's not going to have the same level of enthusiasm when casting the new guy.

    I think Amazon should buy Eon's stake. Market Bond 26 as a brand new era. Maybe hire Chris Nolan or Edgar Wright. I know this sounds an awful suggestion but maybe go straight to streaming. Times have changed. If Eon have nowhere to take Bond let Amazon do what they want with Bond, streaming included!

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    @bondywondy are you suggesting Amazon have majority stakes in James Bond?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Part of me thinks if May ever makes an appearance in a film it’ll be through dialogue only. Kinda surprised this wasn't done in the Craig era during SF or SP - I dunno, someone mentioning Bond’s housekeeper kept his flat in SF, or she let Moneypenny in during SP or something… just a line that adds little but is a little wink to fans of the novels.

    Not that it adds much, but that’s likely the sort of reference we’ll get, and it could be nice.

    That’s fun, I could go with that. The SF version would definitely make sense I think. It’s quite fun to think what opportunities in the old films they perhaps had to include her.

    It’s funny, I was thinking of examples of Bond going about his domestic activities in the films, and I thought of NTTD and how we see his life on the island. But, and correct me if I’m wrong Peter, I’d say that’s there to establish his new life; and when we see him doing something as ordinary as cleaning his teeth, that’s both a bit of a character sketch and is actually (surprisingly!) important to the plot- as the toothbrush comes up later with all the DNA stuff.
    That said, with a new Bond, establishing his 2020s lifestyle might well be a valuable part of the next film. It is really interesting to think about this stuff and how films like these are constructed.

    Agreed @mtm , we are being shown Bond’s new life, and we get to see nice character things (like he’s been snipping and keeping newspaper clippings on Blofeld), the toothbrush scene appears small and insignificant, but it was a sly plant— a few short scenes later we see the toothbrush is being used to extract Bond’s DNA).

    No wasted scenes… every scene should have a purpose for being there (after all, for every second of film shot it’s costing big bucks somewhere along the line of production…).
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    In one of the original drafts wasn't Bond meant to have a girl in his bedroom during that scene in his flat in SP? Him hiding the girl from Moneypenny was meant to be a nod to LALD
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    In one of the original drafts wasn't Bond meant to have a girl in his bedroom during that scene in his flat in SP? Him hiding the girl from Moneypenny was meant to be a nod to LALD

    I don’t know @Jordo007 . But I always noted there are two dirty wine glasses on the kitchen counter, signifying Mr Bond likely had some company over in the recent past.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yes, wasn't there to be a woman's voice off-screen, saying 'James, come back to bed'? Presumably, while he was looking at the remnants of the documents that Moneypenny had brought.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    If I remember correctly, in one draft, Blofeld hinted that the woman in Bond's apartment was actually a spy.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Denbigh wrote: »
    If I remember correctly, in one draft, Blofeld hinted that the woman in Bond's apartment was actually a spy.

    Oh man. That could have been something to play with, harkening back to Mr White warning: we have people everywhere…
  • Posts: 1,368
    peter wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Part of me thinks if May ever makes an appearance in a film it’ll be through dialogue only. Kinda surprised this wasn't done in the Craig era during SF or SP - I dunno, someone mentioning Bond’s housekeeper kept his flat in SF, or she let Moneypenny in during SP or something… just a line that adds little but is a little wink to fans of the novels.

    Not that it adds much, but that’s likely the sort of reference we’ll get, and it could be nice.

    That’s fun, I could go with that. The SF version would definitely make sense I think. It’s quite fun to think what opportunities in the old films they perhaps had to include her.

    It’s funny, I was thinking of examples of Bond going about his domestic activities in the films, and I thought of NTTD and how we see his life on the island. But, and correct me if I’m wrong Peter, I’d say that’s there to establish his new life; and when we see him doing something as ordinary as cleaning his teeth, that’s both a bit of a character sketch and is actually (surprisingly!) important to the plot- as the toothbrush comes up later with all the DNA stuff.
    That said, with a new Bond, establishing his 2020s lifestyle might well be a valuable part of the next film. It is really interesting to think about this stuff and how films like these are constructed.

    Agreed @mtm , we are being shown Bond’s new life, and we get to see nice character things (like he’s been snipping and keeping newspaper clippings on Blofeld), the toothbrush scene appears small and insignificant, but it was a sly plant— a few short scenes later we see the toothbrush is being used to extract Bond’s DNA).

    No wasted scenes… every scene should have a purpose for being there (after all, for every second of film shot it’s costing big bucks somewhere along the line of production…).

    Anyway, the movie is too long. A tighter cut would improve it a lot.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Part of me thinks if May ever makes an appearance in a film it’ll be through dialogue only. Kinda surprised this wasn't done in the Craig era during SF or SP - I dunno, someone mentioning Bond’s housekeeper kept his flat in SF, or she let Moneypenny in during SP or something… just a line that adds little but is a little wink to fans of the novels.

    Not that it adds much, but that’s likely the sort of reference we’ll get, and it could be nice.

    That’s fun, I could go with that. The SF version would definitely make sense I think. It’s quite fun to think what opportunities in the old films they perhaps had to include her.

    It’s funny, I was thinking of examples of Bond going about his domestic activities in the films, and I thought of NTTD and how we see his life on the island. But, and correct me if I’m wrong Peter, I’d say that’s there to establish his new life; and when we see him doing something as ordinary as cleaning his teeth, that’s both a bit of a character sketch and is actually (surprisingly!) important to the plot- as the toothbrush comes up later with all the DNA stuff.
    That said, with a new Bond, establishing his 2020s lifestyle might well be a valuable part of the next film. It is really interesting to think about this stuff and how films like these are constructed.

    Agreed @mtm , we are being shown Bond’s new life, and we get to see nice character things (like he’s been snipping and keeping newspaper clippings on Blofeld), the toothbrush scene appears small and insignificant, but it was a sly plant— a few short scenes later we see the toothbrush is being used to extract Bond’s DNA).

    No wasted scenes… every scene should have a purpose for being there (after all, for every second of film shot it’s costing big bucks somewhere along the line of production…).

    Anyway, the movie is too long. A tighter cut would improve it a lot.

    Anyway, that’s your opinion Deke and you’re entitled to it…. Anyway…
  • Posts: 1,368
    Yeah it's my opinion. Anyway... NTTD is the longest James Bond movie.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    peter wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    In one of the original drafts wasn't Bond meant to have a girl in his bedroom during that scene in his flat in SP? Him hiding the girl from Moneypenny was meant to be a nod to LALD

    I don’t know @Jordo007 . But I always noted there are two dirty wine glasses on the kitchen counter, signifying Mr Bond likely had some company over in the recent past.

    That's a good spot mate, I never noticed that.
    @Denbigh that would have been a nice connection
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Yeah it's my opinion. Anyway... NTTD is the longest James Bond movie.

    It is, and; it is?!?!?!

    And @Jordo007 … I don’t know why my eye was drawn to those two wine glasses, but I loved the touch. Put a smile on my face.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    This is not a suggestion, but a possible route EON might take with Bond 26.
    Given the ending of NTTD (
    Bond dies
    ) the film makers can seemingly go in any direction they please.
    They can do a DAF, where they simply ignore the last films exploits altogether.
    They can do a CR, where they make Bond a rookie agent, maybe on his first mission for MI6, but obviously not a remake of CR with gambling and Vesper.
    They can make an entirely new timeline or revert back to the one of old from Connery - Brosnan. Not that there was a lot of continuity, and certainly not (imo) all of them playing the same James Bond. But that's a long and old debate that has no right or wrong answer. It's subjective to each of us.
    If I had a choice, I'd prefer to see a man who has experienced the life of a OO agent.
    Possibly early in his career, but still a blunt instrument. An assassin for his country.
    Making Bond a rookie again would, maybe be too soon after CR, even though we're potentially looking at 20 years between CR and Bond 26, when other actors debuted as James Bond, it always felt like a continuation, albeit with a fresher faced actor.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I want Bond to be in his prime, an established agent, not a rookie and not one thinking about his pension.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    talos7 wrote: »
    I want Bond to be in his prime, an established agent, not a rookie and not one thinking about his pension.

    See we need another GE by the looks of it.
  • edited January 29 Posts: 3,327
    peter wrote: »
    Nice example. Having a breather, a quiet moment in a Bond film isn't a bad thing. Roger Moore taking a shave in LALD, Connery doing his security check routine in Dr. No, Lazenby doing his checks in OHMSS, Connery having a shave in Goldfinger's plane, etc.

    But these are all character things that actually do propel the story in some fashion or tell us about character. These aren’t wasted scenes, it tells us something about James Bond and his job and his role in the story at the time.

    So, not sure what some of the above was about… Oh well…. 🤷‍♂️

    I don't really care how it's incorporated, what purpose it drives the narrative, story, etc. I'll leave it to you scriptwriters to find a way of how it can be squeezed in so it still ticks the boxes.

    These quieter moments are what I like in a Bond movie, that's all I know. It gives us a glimpse into the character of Bond, his daily habits, and also reflects the books too.

    If it still manages to propel the story too in the process, then great! Everyone's happy.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,047
    Benny wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I want Bond to be in his prime, an established agent, not a rookie and not one thinking about his pension.

    See we need another GE by the looks of it.

    Yeah. GoldenEye & The Living Daylights.
  • Posts: 1,078
    Benny wrote: »
    They can make an entirely new timeline or revert back to the one of old from Connery - Brosnan. Not that there was a lot of continuity, and certainly not (imo) all of them playing the same James Bond. But that's a long and old debate that has no right or wrong answer. It's subjective to each of us.

    One thing's for sure, the cinematic James Bond is now firmly in 'superhero' territory, where each film can now have separate timelines and he can become a new 007, and die at the end, as many times as they want him to.
    Perhaps they see the next Bond as another mini-series, like the Craig era turned out to be? I hope not, but as you say, it could go anywhere now.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,047
    I would like a return to standalone adventures, as it creates room for variety and writers writing without looking at the next film. I think if the Craig's Bond had standalone films, Seydoux wouldn't have returned in NTTD and De Armas would have been the main Bond film.
  • Posts: 1,078
    I'd like stand alone adventures.

    I'd like the next movie to introduce James Bond quite late in the film. Set up the villain's plan first, and introduce an enemy that we genuinely don't like, (Safin and Blofeld were hardly scary in the last film, were they?). We need to see baddies doing bad things, so that when Bond is introduced, we look forward to them meeting up. Think of how the From Russia With Love novel was plotted. Bond wasn't in it till quite late, and by that time we'd already learnt to hate and fear Red Grant.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 29 Posts: 24,183
    Univex wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I thought Fleming said the opposite - that Bond was essentially a modern man with modern vices. Which I guess he would have been. Not to say there wasn’t an element of Bond being an outlier in the books, but the whole ‘man out of his own time’ is much more emphasised from GE onwards, and it’s an effective way of keeping the spirit of the character alive.

    Maybe. I have to find that quote. I'm sure I came across it at some point, because I've long said that the trick was to have the world change around Bond and have him react to it. I'm sure I didn't come up with that. Did I? :)

    Oh well... But, @007HallY, my friend, If he was to be a modern man with modern vices in 1955 why would he keep a 30s Blower? I know the cut of his suits was rather sharp. I guess he was a bit more complex than Fleming anticipated ;)

    I suppose if he were a modern man now, we wouldn't recognize our man Bond. What would modern vices constitute? :D

    To be fair I didn’t get the exact quote/context correct. Fleming said Bond was a ‘creature of the era’, not a typical man of his time but very much of his time. It makes sense in many ways. He’s a man who travels the world for his job in an era where commercial air travel was becoming bigger than ever, he gambles, sleeps with women without much of a thought of marriage or settling down, and he certainly doesn’t have a traditional black or white view of morality when it comes to his job, or even his country at times. So yeah, I guess in many ways the literary Bond is a product of that post WW2 Cold War world.

    But I think you’re right, Bond is probably more complex than Fleming may sometimes have let on. And the truth is many of these qualities - the womanising, indulgence in gambling/fast cars, and his cynicism - could be easily described as ‘symptoms of the era’ today.

    You are absolutely right. Symptoms of the era, and of Flemings marriage, and his relationship with his parents and his brother, or the bigger shadow of him, anyway. The man had his ghosts, dead and living. A cocktail for complexity.

    @Univex, @007HallY
    I like the points you have brought up, friends.
    When reading Fleming, I always get the sense too that he tried to make Bond less complex than he did. Bond's manners, frustrations and remarks have always felt to me as reflecting the maestro's struggles. Take Bond's offhand attitude towards certain things. Is that merely the character Fleming set out to create? Or is that Fleming himself trying to shrug off his feelings about the changing world?
    I'd like stand alone adventures.

    I'd like the next movie to introduce James Bond quite late in the film. Set up the villain's plan first, and introduce an enemy that we genuinely don't like, (Safin and Blofeld were hardly scary in the last film, were they?). We need to see baddies doing bad things, so that when Bond is introduced, we look forward to them meeting up. Think of how the From Russia With Love novel was plotted. Bond wasn't in it till quite late, and by that time we'd already learnt to hate and fear Red Grant.

    @ColonelAdamski
    I have always been fond of that idea too. FRWL, the novel, has a narrative structure that no Bond film has yet dared go for. Would it be the commercially smart thing to do? Probably not, since audiences want enough screen time with Bond, I suppose. But it certainly would be an interesting concept to explore.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    I'd like stand alone adventures.

    I'd like the next movie to introduce James Bond quite late in the film. Set up the villain's plan first, and introduce an enemy that we genuinely don't like, (Safin and Blofeld were hardly scary in the last film, were they?). We need to see baddies doing bad things, so that when Bond is introduced, we look forward to them meeting up. Think of how the From Russia With Love novel was plotted. Bond wasn't in it till quite late, and by that time we'd already learnt to hate and fear Red Grant.

    Yes, very much this.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 29 Posts: 16,415
    I must admit I'm not a massive fan of the bits where Bond disappears for long stretches. Like the TB plane crashing or the TND boat sinking etc. I like watching Bond himself so I like it when they integrate him if they can.
    That's my personal preference: I'm not saying it's the right way to do it or the only way to do it or if anyone thinks differently they're wrong. It's a shame I have to make that clear, but there we go.
  • edited January 29 Posts: 6,709
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I thought Fleming said the opposite - that Bond was essentially a modern man with modern vices. Which I guess he would have been. Not to say there wasn’t an element of Bond being an outlier in the books, but the whole ‘man out of his own time’ is much more emphasised from GE onwards, and it’s an effective way of keeping the spirit of the character alive.

    Maybe. I have to find that quote. I'm sure I came across it at some point, because I've long said that the trick was to have the world change around Bond and have him react to it. I'm sure I didn't come up with that. Did I? :)

    Oh well... But, @007HallY, my friend, If he was to be a modern man with modern vices in 1955 why would he keep a 30s Blower? I know the cut of his suits was rather sharp. I guess he was a bit more complex than Fleming anticipated ;)

    I suppose if he were a modern man now, we wouldn't recognize our man Bond. What would modern vices constitute? :D

    To be fair I didn’t get the exact quote/context correct. Fleming said Bond was a ‘creature of the era’, not a typical man of his time but very much of his time. It makes sense in many ways. He’s a man who travels the world for his job in an era where commercial air travel was becoming bigger than ever, he gambles, sleeps with women without much of a thought of marriage or settling down, and he certainly doesn’t have a traditional black or white view of morality when it comes to his job, or even his country at times. So yeah, I guess in many ways the literary Bond is a product of that post WW2 Cold War world.

    But I think you’re right, Bond is probably more complex than Fleming may sometimes have let on. And the truth is many of these qualities - the womanising, indulgence in gambling/fast cars, and his cynicism - could be easily described as ‘symptoms of the era’ today.

    You are absolutely right. Symptoms of the era, and of Flemings marriage, and his relationship with his parents and his brother, or the bigger shadow of him, anyway. The man had his ghosts, dead and living. A cocktail for complexity.

    @Univex, @007HallY
    I like the points you have brought up, friends.
    When reading Fleming, I always get the sense too that he tried to make Bond less complex than he did. Bond's manners, frustrations and remarks have always felt to me as reflecting the maestro's struggles. Take Bond's offhand attitude towards certain things. Is that merely the character Fleming set out to create? Or is that Fleming himself trying to shrug off his feelings about the changing world?
    I'd like stand alone adventures.

    I'd like the next movie to introduce James Bond quite late in the film. Set up the villain's plan first, and introduce an enemy that we genuinely don't like, (Safin and Blofeld were hardly scary in the last film, were they?). We need to see baddies doing bad things, so that when Bond is introduced, we look forward to them meeting up. Think of how the From Russia With Love novel was plotted. Bond wasn't in it till quite late, and by that time we'd already learnt to hate and fear Red Grant.

    @ColonelAdamski
    I have always been fond of that idea too. FRWL, the novel, has a narrative structure that no Bond film has yet dared go for. Would it be the commercially smart thing to do? Probably not, since audiences want enough screen time with Bond, I suppose. But it certainly would be an interesting concept to explore.

    Our minds are aligned, @DarthDimi, my friend.

    About your first answer, yes, absolutely, any psychological authopsy of the maestro, as you so aptly called him, will tell us that his creation is really his sublimation, as so often it occurs in ficcional writing. I always got that feeling, particularly after reading some biographies of the man. That being said, it's very well discussed between novelists that creating a character by way of sublimating one self and still maintaining the quality the piece requires is often times an impossible project. And Fleming succeeded brilliantly.

    On your second answer. Absolutely, a few pages back I was trying to introduce the concept of having a brilliant spionage narrative in which to drop Bond at some point, a bit like in FRWL. Having a fantastically written context very well set up first, in which Bond then immerses himself is theatrical and a nod to great novelistic writing and film making.

    That could even balance out the so called formula with the non canonical. If I were them, I'd be trying to find a great narrative. And then have our man Bond deal with it, as if he were us, now having to deal with what was given to us.

    Very well thought out, my friend. Cheers
Sign In or Register to comment.