Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Oh , and that’s first RATE Bond, not first RAT Bond 😂

    Corrected…
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suspect had he suggested to EON that they fire two of their long term collaborators (who seemingly worked on this project for a relatively long period) he would have been on very rocky grounds with the company at worst, or laughed out of the room at best. It was simply a case where P&W had done their (pretty extensive) drafts and Campbell suggested that an alternative writer who he thought suited to the job come in and work on it going into the final stages. Seems pretty standard really.
    Yes, that's what happened with Marc Forster and P&W's QOS script - they'd turned in their script, Forster read it, junked it and brought back Paul Haggis to start it all over again. Obviously, he must've had EON's approval and couldn't've done it of his own accord, but it's not quite the 'Forster threw P&W off QOS' myth that was doing the rounds at the time. Although that was funnier, obvs.
  • edited February 7 Posts: 4,162
    007HallY wrote: »
    Considering his personal choice was Henry Cavill I’d wager he wouldn’t have much of interest to say. As for hiring him or not, it really depends on what they want from Bond 26. Campbell’s done two great Bond films, but he’s not necessarily the answer, and there’s absolutely no guarantee he’d a) want to do it, or b) it’d be right for him.

    Anyway, not anything Campbell can do without scripts/a solid direction for the next film. Better get that sorted first really.

    Well, we know he wants to do it because he's said as much in interviews through the years, including recently. Whether EON want him is another matter, although after the fiasco of Boyle on Bond 25 it may be that they want a reliable pair of hands without too many pretensions, especially since they find themselves behind the 8 ball somewhat with the strikes and whatever else.

    Exactly, it depends on what EON wants to do/whether they think he’d be the best option.

    I’m not sure if the take-away from Boyle would be to get a specific kind of director, at least when we’re talking as broadly as ‘auteur’ and ‘workman-like’. I think they’d want a director who has a proven track record of at least being able to work with different writers/producers, and won’t get huffy when EON make specific requirements (ie. They don’t want a director leaving the project because they refuse to have other writers involved in the script).
    Venutius wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suspect had he suggested to EON that they fire two of their long term collaborators (who seemingly worked on this project for a relatively long period) he would have been on very rocky grounds with the company at worst, or laughed out of the room at best. It was simply a case where P&W had done their (pretty extensive) drafts and Campbell suggested that an alternative writer who he thought suited to the job come in and work on it going into the final stages. Seems pretty standard really.
    Yes, that's what happened with Marc Forster and P&W's QOS script - they'd turned in their script, Forster read it, junked it and brought back Paul Haggis to start it all over again. Obviously, he must've had EON's approval and couldn't've done it of his own accord, but it's not quite the 'Forster threw P&W off QOS' myth that was doing the rounds at the time. Although that was funnier, obvs.

    It’s a similar case to SF as well, where P&W did early drafts and after Mendes signed on he brought in Logan to finish things off/hone everything. It’s the same story for NTTD as well. No one was ‘fired’.

    It’s a bizarre thing fans tend to say around here, and I suspect it shows just how little all of us actually know about what goes on behind the scenes with these films. I know not everyone is a fan of P&W but if they’d been fired not once but twice due to poor work, why would EON continuously bring them back to work on the early drafts of their scripts? Why would much of their ideas end up in all of these films? As I said, if a director was brought in and demanded that these collaborators be fired, that would create a very unstable working relationship between them and EON, and they wouldn’t even have the power to do so anyway from my understanding. Honestly, I’m not sure if Campbell, Forster, Mendes or Fukanaga would be stupid enough to throw their toys out of the pram in this way. They can, however, bring in new writers that they have connections with and they can adapt the script in order to get it in the best shape for shooting. In fact I suspect that’s encouraged. So yeah, I think P&W getting ‘fired’ is very much a myth as you said.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited February 6 Posts: 8,399
    @007HallY you're correct, I just meant that EON are kind of behind the 8 ball this time because so much time has already passed. They can't afford another multiple month set back like what happened with Craig, Boyle and the pandemic last time. That's why I think Campbell could be on their radar, because they've worked together and EON will be be comfortable they know what they're getting with him and avoid a lot of complications that they might otherwise run into.
  • Posts: 4,162
    @007HallY you're correct, I just meant that EON are kind of behind the 8 ball this time because so much time has already passed. They can't afford another multiple month set back like what happened with Craig, Boyle and the pandemic last time. That's why I think Campbell could be on their radar, because they've worked together and EON will be be comfortable they know what they're getting with him and avoid a lot of complications that they might otherwise run into.

    Potentially, and it’s certainly not out of the realms of plausibility.. At the end of the day none us know who they’re considering. But I suspect they’ve taken something away from the Boyle situation.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    @007HallY you're correct, I just meant that EON are kind of behind the 8 ball this time because so much time has already passed. They can't afford another multiple month set back like what happened with Craig, Boyle and the pandemic last time. That's why I think Campbell could be on their radar, because they've worked together and EON will be be comfortable they know what they're getting with him and avoid a lot of complications that they might otherwise run into.

    Yeah. With Campbell, it's a familiar face. Less complications and creative differences....and above all, a smooth production.
  • And bring back David Arnold while we're at it.

    It's been 16 years. Time to let it go...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I don't care how long it's been, David Arnold returning would get me more excited about the music we'll get than I've been in a long time (though, admittedly, I really did love a great deal of Zimmer's work in NTTD, especially the Cuba stuff, so I wouldn't be past getting someone new or virtually anyone that isn't Newman).
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited February 6 Posts: 8,399
    From an interview with collider in August 2021:

    Interviewer: "you've done such a great job rebooting the last two bonds, would you consider doing it again?"

    Martin Campbell: "oh yes, I would certainly consider it because I enjoy doing bond. The two producers are great to work with, they don't interfere at all if they think you're on the right track, they just let you get on with it."

    So at least as recently as 2 and a half years ago Campbell was up for returning to the series if called upon.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I don't care how long it's been, David Arnold returning would get me more excited about the music we'll get than I've been in a long time (though, admittedly, I really did love a great deal of Zimmer's work in NTTD, especially the Cuba stuff, so I wouldn't be past getting someone new or virtually anyone that isn't Newman).

    I second that.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 6 Posts: 2,044
    I'm all for David Arnold returning as well. But if Zimmer wins another Oscar for Dune 2, it could be him. But at the same time, I'm curious to hear what Ludwig Goransson would do with the Bond sound. He could be very inventive with it.
  • Posts: 1,860
    From an interview with collider in August 2021:

    Interviewer: "you've done such a great job rebooting the last two bonds, would you consider doing it again?"

    Martin Campbell: "oh yes, I would certainly consider it because I enjoy doing bond. The two producers are great to work with, they don't interfere at all if they think you're on the right track, they just let you get on with it."

    So at least as recently as 2 and a half years ago Campbell was up for returning to the series if called upon.

    Let's hope he IS called upon as well as Arnold. In these hands, Bond could be reimagined and updated knowing that the basics of Bond would be in good hands.
  • Posts: 1,993
    @delfloria Bond reimagined. What does that look like? I realize none of us really know, but I would like to see a few stabs at what this new era might bring. I'm not talking about the directors, the writers, or the composers.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited February 7 Posts: 8,399
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @delfloria Bond reimagined. What does that look like? I realize none of us really know, but I would like to see a few stabs at what this new era might bring. I'm not talking about the directors, the writers, or the composers.

    My thinking is that we will be very much along for the ride with bond without being inside his head, if that makes sense. I think if there is one thing they will likely change, it's to rebuild some of that mystique around the character. Craig played it very much as an open book ("I have no armour left") and I think they will keep him human, but put the audience more at an arms length.

    Personally I'd still like to see the moonraker novel adapted I think that could work well in the modern day. Imagine a banger PTS, song and then opening up on Bond meeting M at Blades, that would be a great way to establish their dynamic, and a bit different than just meeting at the office. I personally like it when Bond meets the villain early and the whole film is a game of cat and mouse, something else they didn't really do much of in the Craig era.
  • Posts: 1,993
    Yes, I don't want M and Bond to meet for the first time and then we have a long getting to know you and trust you routine. DN started as if they'd known each other for some time. And I do like the idea of Bond meeting the villain early, even if he doesn't know how dastardly the villain is. I don't think we need a Bond with a complex, haunting past. I'd rather a Bond who does what he does because he believes in his country instead of being reminded he was an orphan and dealing with that background again. As for smoking, drinking, and sex, deal with those issues without making it seem the PC police have arrived. Smoking has mostly gone away. As for drinking, he can cut back without a medical lecture. It'll be okay for him to drink sparkling water on occasion without mentioning why. As for sex, it just needs to be consensual and adult. The one night stand is still very much a thing in the real world. We don't need to see Bond turned down with a wink wink to make up for behavior In past films. And finally, as much as I love the DB5, enough!
  • edited February 8 Posts: 579
    Something I really would love to see in BOND 26 are gadgets that are cool and realistic. Like tech that is not quite possible yet but likely will be a few years down the road. Such as full self driving car and an augmented reality head set that looks something like this rather than the bulky ones currently available. Yes, we already had a similar VR headset in DAD but that was not used in a serious way.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Something I really would love to see in BOND 26 are gadgets that are cool and realistic. Like tech that is not quite possible yet but likely will be a few years down the road. Such as full self driving car and an augmented reality head set that looks something like this rather than the bulky ones currently available. Yes, we already had a similar VR headset in DAD but that was not used in a serious way.

    That would be cool.
  • Posts: 1,993
    One of the things that made TB enjoyable was the underwater equipment developed for the film and that it played a critical role. In NTTD, the nanobot aspect didn't work for me because it seemed more science fiction than reality. A similar idea worked better in OHMSS because a virus seemed more plausible. I have no doubt technology and a tech villain in the style of some of our contemporary multibillionaires will feature prominently in the next film(s).
  • Posts: 944
    I can only think of some 3D holographic tech that Bond has to outsmart at the end. Don't wanna see robots or A.I./VR stuff.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 8 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, projecting the proverbial five minutes into the future, as MGW put it, is one thing, but projecting five years or so is too much. DAD seized on the genuine discussions that were taking place at that time around the potential to mask/cloak military vehicles/planes with light-deflection technology, but the invisible car went too far and pushed it into parody. Agree with CrabKey that the nanobots were also a bit of a step too far. A virus that had the same effect would've worked better for the Craig era, I reckon.
  • edited February 8 Posts: 1,368
    They were trying to update OHMSS.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, projecting the proverbial five minutes into the future, as MGW put it, is one thing, but projecting five years or so is too much. DAD seized on the genuine discussions that were taking place at that time around the potential to mask/cloak military vehicles/planes with light-deflection technology, but the invisible car went too far and pushed it into parody. Agree with CrabKey that the nanobots were also a bit of a step too far. A virus that had the same effect would've worked better for the Craig era, I reckon.

    But the thing is nano bots isn't a step too far; that technology is advancing at blinding speed. What was presented in NTTD is extremely plausible.

    This is going to be, or I should say could be, a problem for a future film. Technology that is a year, month, week, hours away, or perhaps already achieved, will be seen by many filmgoers as " too science fiction"; it is advancing exponentially, at a rate that many can't fathom.

    On a connected note, was the threat originally a virus, altered because of obvious circumstances ? I've read that this has ben speculated.
  • edited February 8 Posts: 4,162
    From what I understand nothing was changed due Covid if that’s what you mean. A virus threat is a pretty typical villain’s plot in spy/action fiction anyway (it’s been done in 24, Mission Impossible 2 and I’m sure others can think of more). All they did was adapt it to the idea of nanobots/a threat that’s ’five minutes into the future’ (and again, nanobots is another relatively common idea - the Bond video game EoN famously used it). Not sure how it could conceivably have been re-edited anyway.

    I liked the nanobots in NTTD. In the context of the film it works and seems plausible (not that it’s overly realistic even now - if such technology to the point that MI6 had the basic components to develop this weapon it’d be a breakthrough, likely to the point the basic tech could and would be used to do stuff like cure cancer, it’d be that much of a game changer for the world). It felt menacing though and actually quite scary.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 8 Posts: 3,152
    True, the potential results of unleashing the nanobots was quite effective and the thought of them in the hands of a nutjob like Safin did make for some fairly old skool Bondian global menace. I dunno, though, I just couldn't really get to it, fully. Maybe it was just the name - if Austin Powers had uttered the word 'nanobots' I'd've laughed at the absurdity and thought it was a pretty good parody. Seems a bit of a trite objection, though, I know. Weren't nanobots in Brosnan's Everything or Nothing? Like Obruchev, they seem far more fitting to Pierce's era than Dan's, tbh. IMO, obvs.
  • edited February 8 Posts: 4,162
    I think to some extent most Bond’s tenures drifts into that ‘5 minutes into the future’ territory. Brosnan’s certainly did by DAD, Connery’s last two films involved a very streamlined international space travel set up, the technology to magically create convincing doubles/change their voices, and laser satellites powered by diamonds. Moore of course went into space and had laser beams at his disposal. Even Dalton’s era would have involved a dash of sci fi had he been able to make his third film.

    I mean, on paper nanobots feel more Brosnan era, but I can’t picture a Brosnan Bond film being as dark as NTTD, or the nanobots used in the same way. So for me it’s in line with where Bond eventually goes given time, and no Bond actor’s era is strictly defined by one particular style or tone should they be in the role long enough.
  • SeanoSeano Minnesota. No, it's not always cold.
    Posts: 44
    The nanobots is one of the few places where the continuity of the Craig era works, IMO. In CR, they implant a chip into Bond that monitors his location and vitals, plus it's able to identify what poison he ingested. But we also see that others have discovered the existence of the chip, so it can be neutralized by being removed. By SP, MI6 has developed "smart blood" with much of the same functionality that can't be easily removed. The nanobots in NTTD are essentially a weaponized version of those concepts.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    Everything about the film — the joke with the soup, the way Safin was growing and harvesting Heracles (whose name applies to so many bits of the film it’s funny) basically screams ‘Programmable Virus’ rather than *just* nano machines (which is basically FoxDie from Metal Gear Solid) as is the fact they are essentially permanent and self multiplying. Whether anything was changed or tweaked… well, it’s certainly not impossible. Half the product placement had to be tinkered with because of the delay. The odd line here or there is easy in comparison, and *no-one* would come out and say ‘yeah, reality hit that hard so we had to fix it’ because it would not go down well releasing it at all if that were the case. (It’s happened before on smaller scales — from X-Files Fight the Future being pulled from TV showings just after terrorist attacks, or BBC Comedy Bottom having an episode pulled from transmission because it featured a gag about a sex crime on Wimbledon, at the time a real and much more serious one in the real life location)

    Oddly, some of it may have changed during production, which is why Safin and his Island feel so oddly disconnected from the rest of the story, and heavy lifting is done by small snippets of dialogue rather than proper exposition. (We know he is selling it as a bio weapon, he has buyers coming, yet at the same time he’s presented as a sort of Moore era ‘kill them all and start again’ villain — and was already doing poisons and bio weapons before stealing the Heracles. Maybe it was never supposed to be M’s doing. Maybe that Lab was supposed to be a Spectre operation.)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    Man I hate the NTTD we got. Clean slate. Looking forward to it.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 8 Posts: 3,152
    'Programmable virus' sounds ominous while, despite them having the same effect, 'nanobots' just sounds a bit daft. Again, a bit of a trite objection, but...true?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited February 8 Posts: 8,399
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Man I hate the NTTD we got. Clean slate. Looking forward to it.

    100%

    The second half of the Craig era was a bloated jumbled mess, Bond 26 has to get back to the bullet-like momentum of the early films.
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