Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 4,617
    I think there there is a huge difference between seeing Bond's domestic life and his inner private emotional life. It's perfectly possible to have light banter with Bond's new house keeper that would add a new dimension to the charater re the screen Bond and some humour/affection without going down the dark, meaningfull stuff. (the banter between Bond and Kincade would be a good example of how we can see this level of banter between Bond and a senior character.) Thats a direction I would like to see.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    I think adding May at this point would feel very dated, unless, perhaps, she's played by a minority actress. Who's cleaning flats in the UK these days? But of course the fanboys would be up in arms about that...

    Anyway, I think the near-empty, almost dusty Bond flat of SP suits the character more.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    May could be played by a transgender person, so why Bond calls them May. as they
    May identify as Male or Female ? Just an idea.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2021 Posts: 16,612
    patb wrote: »
    I think there there is a huge difference between seeing Bond's domestic life and his inner private emotional life.

    Then what's the point in showing his life as described in Fleming if you don't want to deal with what Fleming was trying to say with it?
    echo wrote: »
    I think adding May at this point would feel very dated, unless, perhaps, she's played by a minority actress. Who's cleaning flats in the UK these days? But of course the fanboys would be up in arms about that...


    I think plenty of people have cleaners! :)
    But live-in maids, yeah, not so much. I don't want her in it, she would add nothing at all to it, and actually just make him look like a big baby who can't even cook his own eggs. We could see Bond's accountant as well, how about his dry cleaner? But these are supposed to be action films. A scene of him chatting to his cleaner is destined for the cutting room floor.
    echo wrote: »
    Anyway, I think the near-empty, almost dusty Bond flat of SP suits the character more.

    Yeah, agreed. I tend to think the Craig Bond isn't quite Fleming's Bond, he's actually more interesting than that.
  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    Bond is not and never will be a kitchen sink drama, no matter how much Craig and the regime wish to contorted it into one. When I compare the likes of Skyfall with any of the pre-Barbara films, theres a cavernous divide in style and intrigue. For instance, compare Skyfall and Live And Let Die. Which has more colourful characters, memorable scenes, vibrant locales etc. LALD wins every time.

    To be fair, it's the fans here asking for more scenes of him sitting in his flat, making scrambled eggs, sitting around the office doing nothing etc. rather than the film producers.

    =))
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I for one long for the day of a truly realistic espionage movie, two hours
    of watching Bond sitting in the back of a ford transit van, listening in
    on phone calls and peeing in an old milk bottle., as he fills in some
    forms. :D ( This is a joke, for anyone who doesn't realise it )
  • Posts: 3,327
    I for one long for the day of a truly realistic espionage movie, two hours
    of watching Bond sitting in the back of a ford transit van, listening in
    on phone calls and peeing in an old milk bottle., as he fills in some
    forms. :D ( This is a joke, for anyone who doesn't realise it )

    Sounds like you've been watching old episodes of The Sweeney.... ;)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) They were, just keeping it real. ..... Now put your trousers on, You're nicked.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    echo wrote: »
    I think adding May at this point would feel very dated, unless, perhaps, she's played by a minority actress. Who's cleaning flats in the UK these days? But of course the fanboys would be up in arms about that...

    Anyway, I think the near-empty, almost dusty Bond flat of SP suits the character more.

    One of the many points where changes in British culture and class structure in the last 60-70 years hamper a straight adaptation of the novels in a modern setting.

    I have turned various options around in my head in the last 15 minutes (a nice neighbour who cooks for him, because he never has fresh eggs, after a long assignment? An MI6 dorm, where all the 00s share a floor? Bond living in a hotel?) I have come to the conclusion that the only viable way forward is to turn the Bond series into a multi-cam sitcom about a 00-agent and the Corbynista post-grad student he has to share a flat with, because he is out of the country so often and she can't afford a flat on her own. Every episode begins with Bond walking through the door with his suit in tatters saying something like "That Doctor just wouldn't take No for an answer!" (Cue studio audience laughs). It's called "The Spy who sublet to me".
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :D That's a sit-com I'd watch.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,926
    @ImpertinentGoon, you had me at "An MI6 dorm, where all the 00s share a floor".
  • Posts: 1,650
    Bond could do as did Babe Ruth, and live in a hotel. He's on the road -- or on the mend, including with medical care -- much of the time anyway. When MI-6 complains about the bill he could just bark "I'm on assignment ! I suspect the manager of the hotel is up to no good ! They've stopped putting chocolates on the pillows but the rates have gone up !"

    But seriously, folks, I think the producers actually WOULD be up for a change in tone because:
    They want the films to succeed financially as well as critically
    Craig's turn was suited and tailored to him, and it surely had been time for a change
    The pendulum swings over time, creatively speaking
    There's no need to re-do the Craig arc, or something along those lines

    I know I've said I don't see Tom Hardy coming on, because it would be another arc of intense-guy stories, dialed up even more feverishly. Then again, in Venom everyone making the film, including Hardy, manage to hit a fun-and-frivolity-with-a-lunatic-hero vibe. Still, regardless of that -- and perhaps he'd not merely wish to hit that same note ? -- he's still too short.

    As for the Frenchly-named Englishman from Bridgerton - Rege-Jean Page - he's terribly handsome and charming -- a la Roger Moore, but seems to lack the cruelty aspect (as did Moore). Oh, I'm sure he can grimace for a fight scene, but just compare him with Idris Elba for the difference. Elba is tall, solid, credible for cruelty and action of all kinds, but also handsome and charming. Yes, he's older, but he's holding up quite well, perhaps peaking, and would be superb. As for his age -- get those scripts done and done well, and film two in a row, then another after a break. A trilogy would do it, set either in the present day or Retro. Retro, by the way, need not be 50s/60s, it could be 70s or even 80s, though the disappointing WW84 may have ruined the 80s for a while.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited January 2021 Posts: 1,351
    @ImpertinentGoon, you had me at "An MI6 dorm, where all the 00s share a floor".

    I fully know that stuff like that would be horrible in an actual movie and in my lucid moments I know there shouldn't be spin-offs, but the idea that Fleming has three 00s share an office and a secretary they constantly hit on with the rest of HQ having a pool on who will finally get her is something I would love to see for 5 seasons with 24 episodes each...
  • @ImpertinentGoon, you had me at "An MI6 dorm, where all the 00s share a floor".

    I fully know that stuff like that would be horrible in an actual movie and in my lucid moments I know there shouldn't be spin-offs, but the idea that Fleming has three 00s share an office and a secretary they constantly hit on with the rest of HQ having a pool on who will finally get her is something I would love to see for 5 seasons with 24 episodes each...

    Absolutely.
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 678
    I just think there needs to be more focus on Bond's mission itself, make it really surprising and filled with interesting characters, and make the villain's scheme something you can find believable, and not related to or motivated by MI6 people (M, Bond, etc.)

    Craig's highs are all time high (hehe) I won't ever deny that. But Spectre signaled that the tropes are getting too familiar. Of course I'm anticipating NTTD highly but these elements seem to be still there. A figure from the past. Resentment/revenge. Betrayals, even if quote on quote. Luckily there are other elements I'm more interested in such as Nomi, Paloma, the return of Felix, the grand finale at Safin's lair, etc.

    Breaking out of MI6, and making Bond's mission high stakes but not emotionally charged is the way to go IMO. That doesn't have to mean a cartoon. But the tone would be possibly different, sure.

    I also would like entries where most of the action takes place in one location, making it really stand out in different ways, instead of having Bond globetrotting.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    mtm wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    So go and watch that vile Scientologist in his next Mission not so impossible if you don't like what this series is giving you because Barbara Broccoli has made a great success of the last 15 years of Bond and I believe she is in control and the last thing she wants to do is make lighthearted capers again like you seem to so want.

    I enjoy both Bond and Mission, myself.

    Same here. It seems to be a crime around here, though.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm another who enjoys Both. I think a bit of competition helps raise everyone's game.
  • QsCatQsCat London
    edited January 2021 Posts: 253
    The films don't need to go back to the Brosnan era (not that I don't enjoy those) but maybe somewhere in between. The Connery films would be the closest comparison for tone. Just set in the modern world, featuring action scenes on a contemporary scale. I do think Bond films should have a formula- he should be given a mission then go out and accomplish it. But within that they should experiment and surprise us- they HAVE to anyway, to make each film different from the last. Bond dying at the start of YOLT for instance.

    But I'm really not keen on the focus on Bond's backstory in the last two films. CR and QoS were just right but Skyfall and Spectre went a bit too far. I think it's better to hint at Bond's past- it can suggest much more in the viewer's imagination than showing it. Bond saying "I always hated this place" as he leaves Skyfall burning reminded me of Harry Potter.

    The ageing Bond aspect I dislike too. Bond's feats are impressive enough without him needing to prove his "you're past it/irrelevent/unfit" in-film accusations otherwise, to impress the audience.

    I also hate the self-aware, self-celebratory moments where they reference past films. The films need to stand alone AS those past films did. They're becoming adverts for the franchise and money-making machines. Bond opening the garage in Skyfall, to find the Aston sat there, gleaming and perfectly lit, while the Bond theme plays. Terrible. The white dinner jacket in Spectre with the red carnation in the buttonhole.

    Here's a beautiful example of a subtle connection to a previous film which does work-

    In Dr No- "Bond hands on the wheel Mr Jones, I'm a very nervous passenger!"
    Thunderball- "I've always been a nervous passenger"

    As for Mission Impossible, while enjoying Fallout at the cinema I did think "I wish Bond was this good"...

    Bond does trump MI in other ways though..
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    I just think there needs to be more focus on Bond's mission itself, make it really surprising and filled with interesting characters, and make the villain's scheme something you can find believable, and not related to or motivated by MI6 people (M, Bond, etc.)

    Craig's highs are all time high (hehe) I won't ever deny that. But Spectre signaled that the tropes are getting too familiar. Of course I'm anticipating NTTD highly but these elements seem to be still there. A figure from the past. Resentment/revenge. Betrayals, even if quote on quote. Luckily there are other elements I'm more interested in such as Nomi, Paloma, the return of Felix, the grand finale at Safin's lair, etc.

    Breaking out of MI6, and making Bond's mission high stakes but not emotionally charged is the way to go IMO. That doesn't have to mean a cartoon. But the tone would be possibly different, sure.

    I also would like entries where most of the action takes place in one location, making it really stand out in different ways, instead of having Bond globetrotting.

    Good post. Eon needs to have more confidence in their villain's story so that they don't have to rely upon the now-well-worn tropes of MI6.
  • QsCatQsCat London
    edited January 2021 Posts: 253

    echo wrote: »
    I enjoyed your take as well. I don't know why people want the return to formula. We already have enough formulaic films in the franchise from DN through DAD, with the exceptions of OHMSS and arguably LTK.

    The films should be about the character, not a formula. Fleming himself was very willing to experiment--see the endings of CR, MR, FRWL, OHMSS, YOLT, the opening of DAF and TMWTGG, and the entirety of TSWLM, as examples. That's at least 8 of the 12 books that don't follow a formula to a T. The Craig era gets this aspect of Fleming right.

    I do think that after Craig they need to mothball the DBV permanently. It's been an unnecessary drag on the Craig era, and it's time. Whatever the cool car is when B26 is released should be his car, not an old man's Aston.

    I agree. Enough of the db5 already.

    Having the DB5 just feels like fan service at the most generic level. It was fine in GE and TND, it was fine on CR, but it’s overstayed it’s welcome starting on SF.


    I agree. Although I am looking forward to seeing its chase scene in NTTD. I think its ok for Bond to drive it but it doesn't need to be a focus of attention. He should just drive it as if it were normal. Seeing it in Cambridge in Tomorrow never dies works for example.
  • Posts: 16,226
    QsCat wrote: »
    The films don't need to go back to the Brosnan era (not that I don't enjoy those) but maybe somewhere in between. The Connery films would be the closest comparison for tone. Just set in the modern world, featuring action scenes on a contemporary scale. I do think Bond films should have a formula- he should be given a mission then go out and accomplish it. But within that they should experiment and surprise us- they HAVE to anyway, to make each film different from the last. Bond dying at the start of YOLT for instance.

    But I'm really not keen on the focus on Bond's backstory in the last two films. CR and QoS were just right but Skyfall and Spectre went a bit too far. I think it's better to hint at Bond's past- it can suggest much more in the viewer's imagination than showing it. Bond saying "I always hated this place" as he leaves Skyfall burning reminded me of Harry Potter.

    The ageing Bond aspect I dislike too. Bond's feats are impressive enough without him needing to prove his "you're past it/irrelevent/unfit" in-film accusations otherwise, to impress the audience.

    I also hate the self-aware, self-celebratory moments where they reference past films. The films need to stand alone AS those past films did. They're becoming adverts for the franchise and money-making machines. Bond opening the garage in Skyfall, to find the Aston sat there, gleaming and perfectly lit, while the Bond theme plays. Terrible. The white dinner jacket in Spectre with the red carnation in the buttonhole.

    Here's a beautiful example of a subtle connection to a previous film which does work-

    In Dr No- "Bond hands on the wheel Mr Jones, I'm a very nervous passenger!"
    Thunderball- "I've always been a nervous passenger"

    As for Mission Impossible, while enjoying Fallout at the cinema I did think "I wish Bond was this good"...

    Bond does trump MI in other ways though..

    Excellent post.
  • Posts: 3,327
    QsCat wrote: »
    The films don't need to go back to the Brosnan era (not that I don't enjoy those) but maybe somewhere in between. The Connery films would be the closest comparison for tone. Just set in the modern world, featuring action scenes on a contemporary scale. I do think Bond films should have a formula- he should be given a mission then go out and accomplish it. But within that they should experiment and surprise us- they HAVE to anyway, to make each film different from the last. Bond dying at the start of YOLT for instance.

    But I'm really not keen on the focus on Bond's backstory in the last two films. CR and QoS were just right but Skyfall and Spectre went a bit too far. I think it's better to hint at Bond's past- it can suggest much more in the viewer's imagination than showing it. Bond saying "I always hated this place" as he leaves Skyfall burning reminded me of Harry Potter.

    The ageing Bond aspect I dislike too. Bond's feats are impressive enough without him needing to prove his "you're past it/irrelevent/unfit" in-film accusations otherwise, to impress the audience.

    I also hate the self-aware, self-celebratory moments where they reference past films. The films need to stand alone AS those past films did. They're becoming adverts for the franchise and money-making machines. Bond opening the garage in Skyfall, to find the Aston sat there, gleaming and perfectly lit, while the Bond theme plays. Terrible. The white dinner jacket in Spectre with the red carnation in the buttonhole.

    Here's a beautiful example of a subtle connection to a previous film which does work-

    In Dr No- "Bond hands on the wheel Mr Jones, I'm a very nervous passenger!"
    Thunderball- "I've always been a nervous passenger"

    As for Mission Impossible, while enjoying Fallout at the cinema I did think "I wish Bond was this good"...

    Bond does trump MI in other ways though..

    Great post!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    mtm wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    So go and watch that vile Scientologist in his next Mission not so impossible if you don't like what this series is giving you because Barbara Broccoli has made a great success of the last 15 years of Bond and I believe she is in control and the last thing she wants to do is make lighthearted capers again like you seem to so want.

    I enjoy both Bond and Mission, myself.

    Same here. It seems to be a crime around here, though.
    Only to some members it seems, but hopefully the majority here understand that enjoying some of Bond’s competition is not a crime nor an endorsement of scientology.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2021 Posts: 16,612
    QsCat wrote: »
    I also hate the self-aware, self-celebratory moments where they reference past films. The films need to stand alone AS those past films did. They're becoming adverts for the franchise and money-making machines. Bond opening the garage in Skyfall, to find the Aston sat there, gleaming and perfectly lit, while the Bond theme plays. Terrible.

    The cinema audience I saw it with seemed to love it, the woman next to me actually did a little excited clap. And it was the 50th anniversary film, reason enough for a little wink. The same car in Casino Royale was probably a bit more indulgent than it needed to be though.
    QsCat wrote: »
    Here's a beautiful example of a subtle connection to a previous film which does work-

    In Dr No- "Bond hands on the wheel Mr Jones, I'm a very nervous passenger!"
    Thunderball- "I've always been a nervous passenger"

    I think that's less of a nod than just recycling a gag!
    jake24 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    So go and watch that vile Scientologist in his next Mission not so impossible if you don't like what this series is giving you because Barbara Broccoli has made a great success of the last 15 years of Bond and I believe she is in control and the last thing she wants to do is make lighthearted capers again like you seem to so want.

    I enjoy both Bond and Mission, myself.

    Same here. It seems to be a crime around here, though.
    Only to some members it seems, but hopefully the majority here understand that enjoying some of Bond’s competition is not a crime nor an endorsement of scientology.

    It seems odd to me that some folk see it like we have to act like we're football supporters and only support one team. Nor, as you say, is it any more an endorsement of scientology than enjoying the Connery Bond films are an endorsement of wife-beating.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    jake24 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    So go and watch that vile Scientologist in his next Mission not so impossible if you don't like what this series is giving you because Barbara Broccoli has made a great success of the last 15 years of Bond and I believe she is in control and the last thing she wants to do is make lighthearted capers again like you seem to so want.

    I enjoy both Bond and Mission, myself.

    Same here. It seems to be a crime around here, though.
    Only to some members it seems, but hopefully the majority here understand that enjoying some of Bond’s competition is not a crime nor an endorsement of scientology.

    One hopes so, @jake24!
    mtm wrote: »
    Nor, as you say, is it any more an endorsement of scientology than enjoying the Connery Bond films are an endorsement of wife-beating.

    That was exactly the comparitive that popped into my head too, @mtm!

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    My aversion to the MI films is that Tom Cruise is always playing the character of Tom Cruise. There's no emotional core to them.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,612
    Nope, don't agree there- they're only tense because they connect emotionally.

    And lots of other Bond fans seem to think there shouldn't be emotional stuff in the Bond films, so they'd think that was a good thing anyway.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Just on spectacle alone the MI films have left Bond standing. I hate to say it
    But they're now the go to films for Big stunt work. Yet have also managed
    as @mtm points out, to keep some emotional connection between the characters.
    I'm no Tom Cruise fan, but I do respect the amount of work, time and effort he
    puts in. To Give the fans what they want. As I have posted before Competition
    is a good thing it should make everyone raise their game.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,612
    I am looking forward to No Time To Die, but I am more confident of MI7 being a good film.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    mtm wrote: »
    I am more confident of MI7 being a good film.

    You're not the only one, believe me.
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