Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,011
    For me, the hunger for Bond 26 increases because, NTTD is the first Bond film I'm not eager to do repeat viewings with. Once the Matera sequence is over, the film becomes a chore for me, until the bunker sequence. Craig & Zimmer's score are the only things I like about NTTD.
  • Posts: 4,132
    JustJames wrote: »
    Everything about the film — the joke with the soup, the way Safin was growing and harvesting Heracles (whose name applies to so many bits of the film it’s funny) basically screams ‘Programmable Virus’ rather than *just* nano machines (which is basically FoxDie from Metal Gear Solid) as is the fact they are essentially permanent and self multiplying. Whether anything was changed or tweaked… well, it’s certainly not impossible. Half the product placement had to be tinkered with because of the delay. The odd line here or there is easy in comparison, and *no-one* would come out and say ‘yeah, reality hit that hard so we had to fix it’ because it would not go down well releasing it at all if that were the case. (It’s happened before on smaller scales — from X-Files Fight the Future being pulled from TV showings just after terrorist attacks, or BBC Comedy Bottom having an episode pulled from transmission because it featured a gag about a sex crime on Wimbledon, at the time a real and much more serious one in the real life location)

    Oddly, some of it may have changed during production, which is why Safin and his Island feel so oddly disconnected from the rest of the story, and heavy lifting is done by small snippets of dialogue rather than proper exposition. (We know he is selling it as a bio weapon, he has buyers coming, yet at the same time he’s presented as a sort of Moore era ‘kill them all and start again’ villain — and was already doing poisons and bio weapons before stealing the Heracles. Maybe it was never supposed to be M’s doing. Maybe that Lab was supposed to be a Spectre operation.)

    I’m pretty sure a lot of the finale was written/changed on the fly or in post production (we know Malek and Craig went off and actually developed a lot of the ‘invisible God’ dialogue together. The buyer ships always felt a bit like it’d been added later into the process/had some ADR to set it up in order to create a sort of ‘ticking clock’ scenario).

    Other than that, I really don’t think they changed much.
  • LucknFate wrote: »
    Man I hate the NTTD we got. Clean slate. Looking forward to it.
    I told EON not to fire Boyle, but they didn't listen!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 8 Posts: 6,288
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Man I hate the NTTD we got. Clean slate. Looking forward to it.

    100%

    The second half of the Craig era was a bloated jumbled mess, Bond 26 has to get back to the bullet-like momentum of the early films.

    Except that audiences rejected that bullet-like momentum in 2008. Every Bond film is a reaction to the film immediately before it. This constant course correction is arguably why Bond films have survived while so many other franchises have not.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 8 Posts: 3,152
    Well, EON rejected it, tbf - QOS still made $590m, but EON seemed to lose their nerve a bit after the critics piled on. The various course corrections have allowed them to adapt to different eras and continue through the years, though, no doubt.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    echo wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Man I hate the NTTD we got. Clean slate. Looking forward to it.

    100%

    The second half of the Craig era was a bloated jumbled mess, Bond 26 has to get back to the bullet-like momentum of the early films.

    Except that audiences rejected that bullet-like momentum in 2008. Every Bond film is a reaction to the film immediately before it. This constant course correction is arguably why Bond films have survived while so many other franchises have not.

    Bingo!
  • edited February 8 Posts: 4,132
    The early Bond films do have a very specific and brisk style, but it’s more to do with the editing and how it accommodated the shooting (it’s worth looking up interviews with Peter Hunt/his style on the early films - it’s fascinating and explains quirks like why the Bond theme blares when Bond is doing something as simple as walking through an airport or checking his hotel room).

    It’s very different to the often disorientating, breathless and frankly slightly incoherent style that Forster in practice produced under his guidance. That’s not to say that the ‘Hunt’ style would be suited to all kinds of Bond films (indeed this changed as early as midway through Connery’s tenure with the kinds of creative decisions taken - you can see in YOLT fight scenes with longer takes being used in the edit compared to the bizarre jump cuts at the end of TB and by that movie the films are longer in length and more ‘loose’ in terms of editing).

    The closest we’ve gotten to that brisk, but coherent style in more modern Bond films is TND. That’s actually a good film in terms of direction/creating a fast pace in the edit (love the scene with the Minister of Defence pacing around the General and M, very kinetic, sharply edited and quite effective for the story/scene). Not that we necessarily need a TND either.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,011
    It might not be the best Bond film, but TND is my favourite Bond film. Maybe its only crime is because it's excessively Bondian. But that's what I love about it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    It might not be the best Bond film, but TND is my favourite Bond film. Maybe its only crime is because it's excessively Bondian. But that's what I love about it.

    My least favorite of the Brosnan era and usually in my Bottom 5. I applaud this being someone's favorite though, I so rarely see that sentiment shared. I did have way more fun with it during last year's Bondathon than I have in the last decade or so at least.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I wouldn't go as far as calling it my favourite or a top 5 contender, but TND sure feels like a breathe of fresh air in comparison to the last couple Craig outings.
  • edited February 8 Posts: 4,132
    It might not be the best Bond film, but TND is my favourite Bond film. Maybe its only crime is because it's excessively Bondian. But that's what I love about it.

    Nothing wrong with TND. It’s the film I’ve used to introduce people to Bond in the past. An excellent pizza and beer movie at least. Good pace (fast and brisk but not breathless), interesting story (I think people look back on it in a better light nowadays due to what it says about the media), and a good dose of drama as well as action. It’s one of my most rewatched Bond films.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    TND has one of my favorite pre-title sequences ; it’s its own mini movie that also leads into the rest of the film.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,011
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It might not be the best Bond film, but TND is my favourite Bond film. Maybe its only crime is because it's excessively Bondian. But that's what I love about it.

    My least favorite of the Brosnan era and usually in my Bottom 5. I applaud this being someone's favorite though, I so rarely see that sentiment shared. I did have way more fun with it during last year's Bondathon than I have in the last decade or so at least.

    Oh, Yeah. The truth is, Brosnan's the Bond I grew up with. To this day, Brosnan's confident performance in TND still gives me joy.
  • Posts: 1,075
    Oh, Yeah. The truth is, Brosnan's the Bond I grew up with. To this day, Brosnan's confident performance in TND still gives me joy.

    It was the first film I turned to after the NTTD debacle. I miss those type of Bond films.
  • edited February 8 Posts: 4,132
    To be fair I’m not really sure if I could compare TND fully to any other Bond film. I guess TSWLM is the closest just for plot similarities, but it’s more breezy and less epic in scale. I don’t think either GE or the Dalton films were quite like it either, nor were Brosnan’s later two films.

    In terms of how non Bond fans view it (in my experience anyway) I’ve noticed it’s a bit like SF or even CR in the sense that if people don’t like Bond - or at least claim not to - they tend to happily watch and enjoy it.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,011
    Oh, Yeah. The truth is, Brosnan's the Bond I grew up with. To this day, Brosnan's confident performance in TND still gives me joy.

    It was the first film I turned to after the NTTD debacle. I miss those type of Bond films.

    Yeah. Same here.
  • edited February 8 Posts: 579
    I think that even without Danny Boyle, NTTD had the potential to be one of the top 5 to 7 Bond films. Here is what I would have done to make it better without fundamentally altering the movie:

    - completely remove the Valdo character and as much of the silly tech sublot as possible (such as completely eliminating that London lab scene), without completely eliminating the nanotech McGuffin
    - cast another actress to play Nomi (Lynch should have played her as a sympathetic character after Bond regains his 00 status, and I don't think she succeeded. Compare and contrast that with Fiennes' adversary to ally arch in Skyfall.)
    - move the entire Cuba sequence to Jamaica
    - have Bond die in a less bombastic way. completely annihilating him with missiles is just too much IMHO
  • I’ve grown to love TND more and more as time goes on also. Who knows, after I finish my Bondathon it may even be in my Top 10!
  • Posts: 1,075
    - have Bond die in a less bombastic way.

    Or not at all.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I think that even without Danny Boyle, NTTD had the potential to be one of the top 5 to 7 Bond films. Here is what I would have done to make it better without fundamentally altering the movie:

    - completely remove the Valdo character and as much of the silly tech sublot as possible (such as completely eliminating that London lab scene), without completely eliminating the nanotech McGuffin
    - cast another actress to play Nomi (Lynch should have played her as a sympathetic character after Bond regains his 00 status, and I don't think she succeeded. Compare and contrast that with Fiennes' adversary to ally arch in Skyfall.)
    - move the entire Cuba sequence to Jamaica
    - have Bond die in a less bombastic way. completely annihilating him with missiles is just too much IMHO

    Maybe this could be it's own thread "what Bond 25 should have been"? I certainly have a few ideas of my own to improve what we got, but I don't want to clutter up this space meant for Bond 26.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    I think that even without Danny Boyle, NTTD had the potential to be one of the top 5 to 7 Bond films. Here is what I would have done to make it better without fundamentally altering the movie:

    - completely remove the Valdo character and as much of the silly tech sublot as possible (such as completely eliminating that London lab scene), without completely eliminating the nanotech McGuffin
    - cast another actress to play Nomi (Lynch should have played her as a sympathetic character after Bond regains his 00 status, and I don't think she succeeded. Compare and contrast that with Fiennes' adversary to ally arch in Skyfall.)
    - move the entire Cuba sequence to Jamaica
    - have Bond die in a less bombastic way. completely annihilating him with missiles is just too much IMHO

    Maybe this could be it's own thread "what Bond 25 should have been"? I certainly have a few ideas of my own to improve what we got, but I don't want to clutter up this space meant for Bond 26.

    Here perhaps...

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/20837/no-time-to-die-script-alternative-pitches-what-would-you-change#latest
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    talos7 wrote: »
    I think that even without Danny Boyle, NTTD had the potential to be one of the top 5 to 7 Bond films. Here is what I would have done to make it better without fundamentally altering the movie:

    - completely remove the Valdo character and as much of the silly tech sublot as possible (such as completely eliminating that London lab scene), without completely eliminating the nanotech McGuffin
    - cast another actress to play Nomi (Lynch should have played her as a sympathetic character after Bond regains his 00 status, and I don't think she succeeded. Compare and contrast that with Fiennes' adversary to ally arch in Skyfall.)
    - move the entire Cuba sequence to Jamaica
    - have Bond die in a less bombastic way. completely annihilating him with missiles is just too much IMHO

    Maybe this could be it's own thread "what Bond 25 should have been"? I certainly have a few ideas of my own to improve what we got, but I don't want to clutter up this space meant for Bond 26.

    Here perhaps...

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/20837/no-time-to-die-script-alternative-pitches-what-would-you-change#latest

    Great, thanks.
  • Posts: 1,977
    I don't judge Bond films on their financial success. It's whether I like the film or not. So, moving in a specific direction because a film made record sums of money is not a persuasive argument for me. When people say you can't argue with success, you can if that's not the criterion you judge a film by.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 9 Posts: 1,644
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I don't judge Bond films on their financial success. It's whether I like the film or not. So, moving in a specific direction because a film made record sums of money is not a persuasive argument for me. When people say you can't argue with success, you can if that's not the criterion you judge a film by.

    Bond has proven he can get audiences opening weekend. The financial success after opening weekends is where Bond has proven he is culturally significant and the movies themselves have some substance. Audiences, for now, will always give Bond a chance, and it's magical they never ruined that. So I agree. Bond can move in any direction he wants, as long as he sticks the landing. And so far, every time (save for MAYBE OHMSS and LTK), he has.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    LucknFate wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I don't judge Bond films on their financial success. It's whether I like the film or not. So, moving in a specific direction because a film made record sums of money is not a persuasive argument for me. When people say you can't argue with success, you can if that's not the criterion you judge a film by.

    Bond has proven he can get audiences opening weekend. The financial success after opening weekends is where Bond has proven he is culturally significant and the movies themselves have some substance. Audiences, for now, will always give Bond a chance, and it's magical they never ruined that. So I agree. Bond can move in any direction he wants, as long as he sticks the landing. And so far, every time (save for MAYBE OHMSS and LTK), he has.

    And those two have found a pretty loyal audience in the years since their release.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I'm not saying Nolan will be the guy, but I think reports that he has left the picture have been greatly exaggerated. I still believe he is very much under consideration, and his quote about the rumours "not being true" where directly addressing the notion that had already been hired - but he very might well, especially with Oppenhiemer about to take home 5+ academy awards in the next month.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    It's all just speculation.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 941
    Nolan will be able to make whatever he wants at the moment due to his Oppenheimer success, the longer we go without hearing about the new Bond going into production the more likely it is that he'll start on a new project that will put him out of the running, imo. I think it would make sense for Eon to go with Nolan for the prestige name, but the practicalities of finding a timeframe that works for both Nolan and Eon will probably scupper the idea.

    I was rewatching some of The Little Drummer Girl the other day and was reminded that Park Chan-wook has a great visual style that would work for a Bond film. Very strong use of colour throughout.

    Michael Shannon would make for a great bad-guy, too.
  • Posts: 6,709
    talos7 wrote: »
    TND has one of my favorite pre-title sequences ; it’s its own mini movie that also leads into the rest of the film.

    I go back to it so many times as a guilty pleasure that I think its a compulsion by now ;)
  • edited February 10 Posts: 724
    Univex wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    TND has one of my favorite pre-title sequences ; it’s its own mini movie that also leads into the rest of the film.

    I go back to it so many times as a guilty pleasure that I think its a compulsion by now ;)

    Totally agree. Great pre-credits sequence in TND. I actually prefer it to GE where the effects are a little ropey and I can't stand the line " closing time James, last call. Remember to buy me a pint".
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