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I mean, from what I remember Brosnan isn’t flirting with the girl at the kiosk in Hamburg at all. He just speaks to her in German about his car and smiles. It’s a surprisingly sexless interaction. I don’t think we even get a proper close up of him smiling at her, and none of the editing or acting stretches this interaction out to suggest any attraction (unlike the CR examples, so I disagree with you there). Unless I’m remembering a different scene to you?
I mean, I’m not really sure what specifically you want from these scenes apart from a score, and I’m not going to lie mate, I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say in that last bit in relation to this point. It’s a bit too vague for me/needs more clarifying. I think the CR scenes work well, the editing makes those interactions flow, and Craig/his co-stars’ acting nails it. If anything it’s the lack of score during the Solonge interaction especially that heightens that chemistry.
Thanks @echo … I’ve failed in the past to engage Mendes in discussions about nuance, and I don’t know if he understands the difference between subtlety and maturity and, cheesy smarminess….
Unfortunately, though, this is just Mendes going on about the same points over and over.
He’s obsessed with the Craig films, even though “Bond 25” was released over two and a half years ago!!
The Boogie Man, Daniel Craig, won’t ever be returning to the series!!
Mendes may not have a lot of agency and power in his life, but finally, he does, in this one aspect: since Craig won’t be James Bond again, Mendes has the power to actually never utter that name, nor watch another one of his Bond films. Just like with “Bond 25”, he can pretend the entire era never happened!! After all, it’s contained in this one universe and won’t be continued!!!!
And yet….and yet……. He brings up the Boogie Man……….at every turn.
I’m beginning to worry for him….
We get it, Mendes, you must have PTSD after fifteen years and five films… But it’s time to lay this to rest and look optimistically at a new dawn. A new era!!
😂
(And I’m still waiting for the pages and pages and pages of dialogue you stated were in these scripts that repeatedly went on about betrayal, revenge etc etc…)
😂…
When you strip everything away, it’s simply an obsession of passionate dislike trying to dress itself up as something reasonable.
I’ve carefully gone through the posts from today, and there are so many articulate and lovely points that are such a pleasure to read, but then one guy blasts himself chaotically through these well conceived thoughts, that it almost, almost is a blight on the discussion.
Good point. The SP scene is a bit more stylised too. Dunno if that’s more to @Mendes4Lyfe ’s taste?
I just wish I understood what he was trying to say in his last point 😂 I’m not trying to be snarky, just don’t quite get it.
I hear you @007HallY … I gave up a long time ago. You’ve more patience than me!
Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!
But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.
I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…
That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.
@007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)
Fair enough if these scenes/movies aren’t your cup of tea, and even if so for a lot of the reasons you’re giving, but I think you’re thinking a bit too hard to make up excuses which (sort of but ultimately don’t really) try to justify why these moments are not ‘Bondian’.
I’ve been on this site since 2012.
Personally speaking, I maybe made one comment about “pain face” and that was years ago.
I’ve personally never mentioned Moore’s doubles.
But for every one of the pain-face remarks on this site, you’ve probably made fifty comments, or more, about the Craig era, @mendes4lyfe !!
I rarely hear Moore’s stunt doubles being used in a disparaging way, but for every one of those comments, you’ve made 80-100 comments about the dismal nature of the Craig era.
You are kinda obsessed…
It’s time to move on…..
The Boogie Man will no longer hurt you, @Mendes4Lyfe !!
😂
Classic bond is what the average man thinks he is capable of in his dreams, Craigs bond is what the average man thinks he's capable of when he's drunk.
Ok 😂
😂! The Boogie Man is gone, @Mendes4Lyfe .
Have fun on another thread. Try one of the games we play! Stay off threads where your obsession is unleashed. Trust me, you’ll sleep better.
It’s just being used in this instance to say how rubbish and ‘non-Bondian’ the Craig films are, which doesn’t seem to be felt by others and goes down the route of counter-examples which disprove minor points/the premise while ignoring the more interesting points. And fair enough if stylistically some don’t like these films for these reasons, but it seems like an interesting discussion is being missed.
But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.
If you think the Craig films can stand on their own fair enough, I just don't buy that they are consistent to an holistic aesethetic with the other films, especially since CR kind of sold itself on that not being the case. :-??
I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!
And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.
Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.
Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???
And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!
Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.
I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.
It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…
Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!
Wonderfully said @peter! As much as the fans would love to be in some sort of creative position with regards to the films, it’s for the best that these movies are made by professionals who know what they’re doing and can deal with the stresses of making a Multi Million Dollar production. More and more I’ve learned that the creative process can be a huge pain in the arse at times (just by writing the reviews alone Ive learned that!) and even if the end result may be something less than ideal, it’s not as if the creators aim to make the worst thing they possibly can as you stated. EON and Daniel Craig didn’t have any negative intentions going into the productions of these films, just as I’m sure is the case with any of the other Bond actors. Sure there may have been some bumps along the way I’m sure, but it’s not like I’m hearing “Twilight Zone” levels of disaster going on BTS. It’s not like I’m hearing any mistreatment of the people who make these movies or anything; quite the opposite in fact!
It may just be a side effect of “fandom” in general to have such an intense personal dislike for what is different and out of the ordinary; it’s nothing we can control. All we can do is refute and state our own opinions. Doesn’t take away anything from the legacy of any of the talent involved in this series over its past 60+ years of existence.
And comparing the size of EoN to the monoliths that other film series were born from, this family outfit is the little engine that could (and keeps doing!)!
Also, very much a ‘no’ from me for Richard Madden as Bond.
Madden was atrocious, but that series was one of the best (unintentional) comedies I've ever seen. It was a laugh-a-minute as the two leads with no charisma, no chemistry, tried to make scenes sexy and cool.
My youngest daughter and I (she was 18at the time), relished each new episode, smacking our chops and waiting for the cheese-fiesta that Citadel didn't know it was delivering to us, 😂...
On a serious note, I thought Madden was great in Bodyguard, but after seeing Citadel, I wouldn't want the guy watching another Bond film, let alone auditioning for the part, 😂.
That comes from the short story though.
I wondered why they didn’t make a spy series starring him. Didn’t need to be as big and overblown and green (seriously, that show was coloured green as much as I watched) but he should have been the star.
Fair enough, a while since I read it.