Where does Bond go after Craig?

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,425
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    Are you that obtuse?
  • Posts: 1,425
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    Are you that obtuse?

    It's a fact.

    If you want us to have blind faith, let's tell the truth.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited May 2 Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    Are you that obtuse?

    It's a fact.

    If you want us to have blind faith, let's tell the truth.

    Do you take everything literally?

    EoN is as close to a mom n pop shop as you can get in Hollywood -- is that better, Deke? Does that meet with your approval?

    And who said anything about blind faith? You must have issues with not only lacking in nuance, but you put words in people's mouths.

    Childish at best.

    Try harder....
  • edited May 2 Posts: 1,425
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    Are you that obtuse?

    It's a fact.

    If you want us to have blind faith, let's tell the truth.

    Do you take everything literally?

    EoN is as close to a mom n pop shop as you can get in Hollywood -- is that better, Deke? Does that meet with your approval?

    And who said anything about blind faith? You must have issues with not only lacking in nuance, but you put words in people's mouths.

    Childish at best.

    Try harder....

    Look, people have different opinions, Eon didn't invent Bond and God knows this isn't the same Eon. This is not Royalty, they are not untouchables.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    Are you that obtuse?

    It's a fact.

    If you want us to have blind faith, let's tell the truth.

    Do you take everything literally?

    EoN is as close to a mom n pop shop as you can get in Hollywood -- is that better, Deke? Does that meet with your approval?

    And who said anything about blind faith? You must have issues with not only lacking in nuance, but you put words in people's mouths.

    Childish at best.

    Try harder....

    Look, people have different opinions, Eon didn't invent Bond and God knows this isn't the same Eon. This is not Royalty, they are not untouchables.

    What are you going on about?

    I didn’t say they were royalty.

    I didn’t call them untouchables.

    I never said they invented Bond.

    What are you going on about?

    Give your head a shake.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,904
    The impossible is performed by folks who don't know it can't be done.

  • Posts: 1,425
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    Are you that obtuse?

    It's a fact.

    If you want us to have blind faith, let's tell the truth.

    Do you take everything literally?

    EoN is as close to a mom n pop shop as you can get in Hollywood -- is that better, Deke? Does that meet with your approval?

    And who said anything about blind faith? You must have issues with not only lacking in nuance, but you put words in people's mouths.

    Childish at best.

    Try harder....

    Look, people have different opinions, Eon didn't invent Bond and God knows this isn't the same Eon. This is not Royalty, they are not untouchables.

    What are you going on about?

    I didn’t say they were royalty.

    I didn’t call them untouchables.

    I never said they invented Bond.

    What are you going on about?

    Give your head a shake.

    Tell me, what are you trying to tell us?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    Are you that obtuse?

    It's a fact.

    If you want us to have blind faith, let's tell the truth.

    Do you take everything literally?

    EoN is as close to a mom n pop shop as you can get in Hollywood -- is that better, Deke? Does that meet with your approval?

    And who said anything about blind faith? You must have issues with not only lacking in nuance, but you put words in people's mouths.

    Childish at best.

    Try harder....

    Look, people have different opinions, Eon didn't invent Bond and God knows this isn't the same Eon. This is not Royalty, they are not untouchables.

    What are you going on about?

    I didn’t say they were royalty.

    I didn’t call them untouchables.

    I never said they invented Bond.

    What are you going on about?

    Give your head a shake.

    Tell me, what are you trying to tell us?

    @DEKE_RIVERS — did you read my original post?

    You’re putting words in my mouth.

    You want me to tell you what I’m “trying” to tell “us”?

    Read the post again. Okay? It’s pretty clear what I’m saying.

    Read the post again, and if you should have any more questions, stop clogging up this thread with your trolls, and PM me, okay?

    But I think most really saw what my post was about. Sorry you’re having trouble deciphering which doesn’t need to be deciphered…
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    @DEKE_RIVERS
    I have to admit that when reading your comment,
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    I had a similar reaction as @peter. Why that comment? It adds nothing to what he was saying. The man types out a nuanced post with solid arguments and then you barge in with two extremely short sentences that should somehow, sleight of hand, disprove his entire line of reasoning... which they don’t, since you merely picked up one small detail of his post and thought it clever to point out that "family" is not to be taken literally. At the very least, communicate your full thoughts rather than two simple facts we are all familiar with. As a result, @peter had to all but nose-pick your ideas out of you over the span of several posts. This is what we have been telling you since day 1: your style borders on spam. Directly or indirectly, you just clog up this forum's arteries with your short posts that don't say anything at all, or require us to labor through an exhausting question-and-answer game to suss out their meaning. Our patience is wearing thin, mate.
  • Posts: 1,425
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @DEKE_RIVERS
    I have to admit that when reading your comment,
    peter wrote: »

    @007ClassicBondFan tell this to the fans who point out peirces pain face at every opportunity, or Moores use of stunt doubles. Been 30 years, surely they must be getting tired by now. ;)

    But what does that have to do what my comment? So what if people make fun of Brosnan’s pain face; I do it myself and he’s my favorite Bond. Nobody brings up Moore’s use of stunt doubles as a reason for why his Bond is bad; sure it’s used as a reason for why he should’ve stepped down sooner but it’s never a personal attack against the man for aging. Heck I personally think the most ridiculous thing from any Bond actor in any of these films was watching Connery dry humping a table in Thunderball. Does that take away from how cool Connery’s Bond was? Heck no; all the actors have “less than ideal” moments in their tenures. When people bring up both of those examples against Brosnan and Moore it’s nothing to do with the men themselves; it’s just good natured humor. Trust me I used to get upset whenever I saw people dogpiling on Brosnan for the longest time, but the tide is somewhat changing and now there seems to be relentless Craig bashing which is extremely unfortunate. Personally I would much rather talk about what I love constantly than what I hate constantly.
    peter wrote: »
    Great points, both of them, @007ClassicBondFan !!

    But some people, I’m guessing, may have translated these films as a personal attack on them, and their tastes.

    I think it disturbs them when others actually DO like the films that they despise. And therefore, they get trapped on a hamster wheel, endlessly repeating themselves with the hope, I think, of changing minds. Thats why they also repeat what “we” want in the next Bond films, and use hyperbolic explanations of why the last era didn’t work at all…

    That’s the only reasoning I can come up with on something that’s so irrational.

    Your guess is as good as mine @peter, but I think you just eloquently nailed it. Besides making these movies are extremely tough; I don’t think “perfection” should ever be demanded from any film, let alone a Bond film. Lord knows my favorites of the series have flaws up the ass in them.

    I agree whole heartedly and have said many times here that there are no perfect films, and certainly there’s not one film that is universally praised by 100% of all of its viewers. It’s impossible!

    And although every filmmaker, whether they are making a microbudget, a b-movie, or a 300 million dollar blockbuster, all set out to make the very best film they can, it still won’t be enough to please all the masses all of the time.

    Taking that into consideration, and looking at the 60 plus years of EoN’s James Bond and they really have done the impossible: they’ve not only kept 007 films coming on a regular schedule, but they’ve been able to keep making him relevant to filmgoers globally, in an especially crowded marketplace.

    Think of all of the franchises that have come and gone from blockbusters like Jaws, the original Rocky, Rambo, the steep drop off of Star Wars, the end of Indy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Bourne, FF, XxX…. How is EoN still going strong???

    And to think there are a few entitled Bond “fans” who want more movies NOW, and who think they know how to run this franchise better than the family that has been doing it from the beginning! It’s absurd!!!

    Yes, we all have our gripes about a certain film, or an era, but EoN aren’t making these films for just three people on the planet that all think the same; they’re making it for millions of people, all coming from different ethnicities, that speak and work in different languages… we know they’ve made great efforts of bringing in femal audiences as well.

    I mean, their success, on paper, should have probably been over by the late 80s.

    It’s amazing, @007ClassicBondFan , and that’s why I’m tired of a poster that keeps telling us what “we” want in our next Bond pictures. I feel like saying, why don’t you just remain quiet, and let the experts do their jobs? Of course play the “what if” games! What if, so and so directed? Or if so and so got the part! Of course have fun and dissect the series. Of course. And of course, tell us what YOU want in your Bond films, but don’t assume “we” will agree with those personal desires…

    Another film is on the way, and I bet some of these same entitled “fans” will storm out of the cinema, demanding to know when preproduction is starting on the next film, 😂!!

    Barbara was a child in 1962.

    And Harry Saltzman and Cubby Broccoli were not brothers.

    I had a similar reaction as @peter. Why that comment? It adds nothing to what he was saying. The man types out a nuanced post with solid arguments and then you barge in with two extremely short sentences that should somehow, sleight of hand, disprove his entire line of reasoning... which they don’t, since you merely picked up one small detail of his post and thought it clever to point out that "family" is not to be taken literally. At the very least, communicate your full thoughts rather than two simple facts we are all familiar with. As a result, @peter had to all but nose-pick your ideas out of you over the span of several posts. This is what we have been telling you since day 1: your style borders on spam. Directly or indirectly, you just clog up this forum's arteries with your short posts that don't say anything at all, or require us to labor through an exhausting question-and-answer game to suss out their meaning. Our patience is wearing thin, mate.


    Because we use the word "family" to discredit different opinions. You know, "nobody can do it better".
  • edited May 2 Posts: 4,273
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).
  • Posts: 1,425
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2 Posts: 16,574
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    Yes in many ways I tend to think that the credit on the titles should really be 'Roger Brosnerry as Ian Fleming, Cubby Broccoli & Harry Saltzman's James Bond 007' because they are as responsible for creating the concept of James Bond at this point as Fleming, especially where he sits in the wider culture. They reshaped the character and developed it, and more people have been exposed to and know their version than they do Fleming's. That's why I think it was rather nice that NTTD was named after a Cubby film rather than a Fleming title- it respects that influence. Obviously everything's based in Fleming's work, but if you take Broccoli & Saltzman away you're left with a very different character.
    007HallY wrote: »

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    The thing that always makes me laugh is, no matter how successful and valuable James Bond is, the Fleming family bank, now asset managing company, is worth way, way, way more- to the tune of many billions. Ian did, basically, make the wrong decision all those years ago not to go into it! :D
    The level of immense wealth surrounding everyone involved in Bond, even before he was created, is kind of unimaginable. So no matter what anybody says here about them in a nasty way, they're doing okay :D
  • edited May 2 Posts: 4,273
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).
  • Posts: 1,425
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).

    EON are not beyond criticism and this EON are not the same old EON. Dr NO was made by completely different people!

    EON could be sold and there would still be Bond movies.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Because we use the word "family" to discredit different opinions. You know, "nobody can do it better".

    But I never used the word “family” to discredit anyone, @DEKE_RIVERS !! I literally used it to say, in comparison to the huge studio system, EoN is as close to a mom n pop shop as one can get in the film industry. Why are you twisting my words? It’s very apparent what I meant.

    And as far as Bond goes, to date, no one does do it better. And after sixty plus years that’s an incredible feat. If you don’t want to believe this, that’s fine. But there’s no doubt in a world where we’ve seen film series come and go, Bond is not only still standing, he’s the pinnacle of how an IP should be handled.

    I’d ask you to read posts three times before responding, just to make sure you understand what the poster is saying.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).

    EON are not beyond criticism and this EON are not the same old EON. Dr NO was made by completely different people!

    EON could be sold and there would still be Bond movies.

    When has anyone said EoN is beyond criticism? @DEKE_RIVERS , you’re either making things up, or you’re reading things no one has said, I’m sorry.

    And Cubby made this a family affair. There’s no disputing that. Companies evolve but they evolved from the seeds that were planted all the way back in the first days before DN.
  • edited May 2 Posts: 4,273
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).

    EON are not beyond criticism and this EON are not the same old EON. Dr NO was made by completely different people!

    EON could be sold and there would still be Bond movies.

    Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, they’re not beyond criticism.

    And yes, DN was made by different people (although I think you’re underestimating just how long Cubby/members of his family worked on these films, and how important the work of Barry, Young, Adams, and a range others on that film was to the series/how it was adapted afterwards). Anyway, I wouldn’t hold DN up as the perfect Bond film by any means. Even the Connery films straight after that tinkered around with the character/way these films were made, and it’s a process that’s still going on under EON to this day.

    Ok, so who could they sell it to then? Who do you think specifically would do a better job or understand Bond enough to keep this series alive as EON have done? You’re so close to saying something interesting.
  • Posts: 1,425
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).

    EON are not beyond criticism and this EON are not the same old EON. Dr NO was made by completely different people!

    EON could be sold and there would still be Bond movies.

    Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, they’re not beyond criticism.

    And yes, DN was made by different people (although I think you’re underestimating just how long Cubby/members of his family worked on these films, and how important the work of Barry, Young, Adams, and a range others on that film was to the series/how it was adapted afterwards). Anyway, I wouldn’t hold DN up as the perfect Bond film by any means. Even the Connery films straight after that tinkered around with the character/way these films were made, and it’s a process that’s still going on under EON to this day.

    Ok, so who could they sell it to then? Who do you think specifically would do a better job or understand Bond enough to keep this series alive as EON have done? You’re so close to saying something interesting.


    That can happen, that's all.

    As Peter said companies evolve.
  • Posts: 4,273
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).

    EON are not beyond criticism and this EON are not the same old EON. Dr NO was made by completely different people!

    EON could be sold and there would still be Bond movies.

    Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, they’re not beyond criticism.

    And yes, DN was made by different people (although I think you’re underestimating just how long Cubby/members of his family worked on these films, and how important the work of Barry, Young, Adams, and a range others on that film was to the series/how it was adapted afterwards). Anyway, I wouldn’t hold DN up as the perfect Bond film by any means. Even the Connery films straight after that tinkered around with the character/way these films were made, and it’s a process that’s still going on under EON to this day.

    Ok, so who could they sell it to then? Who do you think specifically would do a better job or understand Bond enough to keep this series alive as EON have done? You’re so close to saying something interesting.


    That can happen, that's all.

    As Peter said companies evolve.

    Yeah, but a big part of that is who would it be sold to, and would the individuals in that company be able to creatively carry on the franchise? There’s even more questions - could this ever happen in the short term with the way EON is currently being run (that’s to say by members of the same family)? Would it morph into something completely different to what we know as James Bond, and to what degree is this the case currently?

    Just saying EON can be sold is a bit boring. There’s more to it than that.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited May 2 Posts: 948
    Eon is the devil you know, and for me that's better than the devil you don't. I hade major issues with George Lucas' fading talent on the prequels, so when Disney brought out The Force Awakens and I loved it I thought SW was in safe hands. It didn't take long for Disney to pimp out the franchise and screw things up.

    Eon at least always go back to Fleming. I'm not a huge Fleming fan, I've only read Moonraker and it isn't my favourite book or anything, but at least when you take Fleming's Bond as the core you have some sort of consistency. I don't like all the creative decisions Eon have made in recent years, but at least I feel they feel they have a responsibility to the character and a respect for his past. I'm not sure I can think of anyone else who would have the same level of commitment to the character. In someone (or should I say something?) else's hands there is a danger it would just become a brand to be exploited and then discarded.
  • Posts: 4,273
    I’m not a Star Wars fan by any means, but what happened with that franchise is potentially a good warning sign of what can happen with this sort of thing. To be honest I even found The Force Awakens to be a bit boring/a glossy retread of the first film (which is fine, I don’t mind remakes/retreads, and certainly Bond has its share, but I didn’t feel TFA was overly entertaining or interesting). I do wonder what a version of The Last Jedi would have looked like if Johnson had had a producer/company at the helm like Broccoli/EoN - that’s to say someone who truly understands the franchise/source material and was willing to steer him in the direction they wanted/needed (I actually think TLJ is the best of that trilogy, and it could have worked had they spent a bit more time on it). Heck, what happened with the last one and Treverow’s dismissal echoes what happened with Boyle and NTTD. Only saw that last film once, but it was a mess. Very strange film. By contrast NTTD for all its faults feels coherent and got a good critical/audience reception (and considering how soon it was after Covid/how long it had been delayed did well financially).
  • Posts: 1,425
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).

    EON are not beyond criticism and this EON are not the same old EON. Dr NO was made by completely different people!

    EON could be sold and there would still be Bond movies.

    Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, they’re not beyond criticism.

    And yes, DN was made by different people (although I think you’re underestimating just how long Cubby/members of his family worked on these films, and how important the work of Barry, Young, Adams, and a range others on that film was to the series/how it was adapted afterwards). Anyway, I wouldn’t hold DN up as the perfect Bond film by any means. Even the Connery films straight after that tinkered around with the character/way these films were made, and it’s a process that’s still going on under EON to this day.

    Ok, so who could they sell it to then? Who do you think specifically would do a better job or understand Bond enough to keep this series alive as EON have done? You’re so close to saying something interesting.


    That can happen, that's all.

    As Peter said companies evolve.

    Yeah, but a big part of that is who would it be sold to, and would the individuals in that company be able to creatively carry on the franchise? There’s even more questions - could this ever happen in the short term with the way EON is currently being run (that’s to say by members of the same family)? Would it morph into something completely different to what we know as James Bond, and to what degree is this the case currently?

    Just saying EON can be sold is a bit boring. There’s more to it than that.

    Who Knows? Can Gregg Wilson handle the franchise alone?

  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 948
    007HallY wrote: »
    I’m not a Star Wars fan by any means, but what happened with that franchise is potentially a good warning sign of what can happen with this sort of thing. To be honest I even found The Force Awakens to be a bit boring/a glossy retread of the first film (which is fine, I don’t mind remakes/retreads, and certainly Bond has its share, but I didn’t feel TFA was overly entertaining or interesting). I do wonder what a version of The Last Jedi would have looked like if Johnson had had a producer/company at the helm like Broccoli/EoN - that’s to say someone who truly understands the franchise/source material and was willing to steer him in the direction they wanted/needed (I actually think TLJ is the best of that trilogy, and it could have worked had they spent a bit more time on it). Heck, what happened with the last one and Treverow’s dismissal echoes what happened with Boyle and NTTD. Only saw that last film once, but it was a mess. Very strange film. By contrast NTTD for all its faults feels coherent and got a good critical/audience reception (and considering how soon it was after Covid/how long it had been delayed did well financially).
    Yeah, we're opposites: I really enjoyed TFA, particularly in the way it built chemistry between its leads, and I was crushingly disappointed by TLJ, which looked nice but had nothing else going for it as far as I'm concerned.

    I do think the decision to keep the characters introduced in Spectre going in NTTD rather than forgetting that film existed might have been influenced by seeing how Disney tried to compromise between fans of TFA and TLJ, giving us a final film that tries make everyone happy and ends up a mess. It probably was better picking a direction and sticking with it.
  • edited May 2 Posts: 4,273
    007HallY wrote: »
    I’m not a Star Wars fan by any means, but what happened with that franchise is potentially a good warning sign of what can happen with this sort of thing. To be honest I even found The Force Awakens to be a bit boring/a glossy retread of the first film (which is fine, I don’t mind remakes/retreads, and certainly Bond has its share, but I didn’t feel TFA was overly entertaining or interesting). I do wonder what a version of The Last Jedi would have looked like if Johnson had had a producer/company at the helm like Broccoli/EoN - that’s to say someone who truly understands the franchise/source material and was willing to steer him in the direction they wanted/needed (I actually think TLJ is the best of that trilogy, and it could have worked had they spent a bit more time on it). Heck, what happened with the last one and Treverow’s dismissal echoes what happened with Boyle and NTTD. Only saw that last film once, but it was a mess. Very strange film. By contrast NTTD for all its faults feels coherent and got a good critical/audience reception (and considering how soon it was after Covid/how long it had been delayed did well financially).
    Yeah, we're opposites: I really enjoyed TFA, particularly in the way it built chemistry between its leads, and I was crushingly disappointed by TLJ, which looked nice but had nothing else going for it as far as I'm concerned.

    I do think the decision to keep the characters introduced in Spectre going in NTTD rather than forgetting that film existed might have been influenced by seeing how Disney tried to compromise between fans of TFA and TLJ, giving us a final film that tries make everyone happy and ends up a mess. It probably was better picking a direction and sticking with it.

    I do appreciate what The Last Jedi was trying to do. The idea of Luke losing his way and having to find it again is compelling (again, I’m really not a Star Wars fan, and I know people who are who dislike this idea for some reason, but I think the concept is great and very in character). It’s not done amazingly well but it feels interesting. I even like the idea of Rey not initially being a Skywalker/essentially someone ‘unimportant’ who has learnt to use the force. It’s what should be a great twist - someone who isn’t ’the chosen one’ believing they are, but still accomplishing something heroic (reminds me of Blade Runner 2049).

    Regardless though, I think that trilogy is a failure in the creative side of producing, which shows just how competent the Bond team is by comparison. The main villain is seemingly killed off by the second film necessitating Palpatine be brought back (again, on my only viewing it was a weird experience in terms of how ham fisted it was) and ideas/even characters introduced in the first two films are dropped or undone in the last one. I appreciate stories unfold organically to a degree, but it felt as if the last film was fighting the other two in order to ‘fix’ things rather than try to adapt these ideas in a creative way. NTTD by comparison feels more organic to the story of Craig’s Bond while being its own film.
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I would say that, for better or worse, EON are responsible for what we associate with the cinematic James Bond. They created the modern version of the character, at least in tandem with all the talented individuals who’ve worked for them. Without them we don’t have what we recognisably know as James Bond (yes, even though the Fleming novels exist).

    They’re not royalty, but simply a very successful company - at the very least financially - who have shaped a major British film property. Doesn’t mean you can’t criticise the films themselves (although that’s very much subjective).

    Disney is a successful company but Bob Iger didn't make Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

    Snow White hasn’t gone through several different versions over the decades from that same company, being updated for the times by members of the same family/company who’ve worked on these films for decades.

    Different examples mate. I’m curious though, what are you actually trying to say? That you don’t think EON are beyond criticism (which is obvious) or that you don’t think they should be making the Bond films? (Which is at least an interesting thing to say, whether people agree or not).

    EON are not beyond criticism and this EON are not the same old EON. Dr NO was made by completely different people!

    EON could be sold and there would still be Bond movies.

    Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, they’re not beyond criticism.

    And yes, DN was made by different people (although I think you’re underestimating just how long Cubby/members of his family worked on these films, and how important the work of Barry, Young, Adams, and a range others on that film was to the series/how it was adapted afterwards). Anyway, I wouldn’t hold DN up as the perfect Bond film by any means. Even the Connery films straight after that tinkered around with the character/way these films were made, and it’s a process that’s still going on under EON to this day.

    Ok, so who could they sell it to then? Who do you think specifically would do a better job or understand Bond enough to keep this series alive as EON have done? You’re so close to saying something interesting.


    That can happen, that's all.

    As Peter said companies evolve.

    Yeah, but a big part of that is who would it be sold to, and would the individuals in that company be able to creatively carry on the franchise? There’s even more questions - could this ever happen in the short term with the way EON is currently being run (that’s to say by members of the same family)? Would it morph into something completely different to what we know as James Bond, and to what degree is this the case currently?

    Just saying EON can be sold is a bit boring. There’s more to it than that.

    Who Knows? Can Gregg Wilson handle the franchise alone?

    I suppose like BB and MGW that’s what he’s being ‘trained’ to do. Is he going to be the only family member at the helm though? Genuinely don’t know.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    Barbara has a daughter as well.

    Bond is so iconic and lucrative that you could see them all ending up in the business, maybe.
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 146
    echo wrote: »
    Barbara has a daughter as well.

    Bond is so iconic and lucrative that you could see them all ending up in the business, maybe.
    Barbara’s daughter directed a video for the Bond / Macallan partnership last year, so it doesn’t look like she’s a million miles away from the family business. I think we’re in good hands as long as Amazon / MGM don’t screw it up.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    And Gregg isn't the only Wilson. He has a brother who has been in and out of the business over the years.

    But it's clear that they're training Gregg, and I believe the plan is for Gregg to work with BB when the day comes that MGW hangs em up.

    Like any good entrepreneurs, theyve looked ahead and they've been preparing to keep the family business running...
  • Posts: 2,022
    I can acknowledge success and appreciate the work of Broccoli and Wilson, but is there really anything more to say on this topic?
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