Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 16 Posts: 6,296
    She is incredible.

    This may be controversial...but I don't really "get" how reusing actors in different roles is a "tradition." To me it's just Cubby wanting to get actors like Charles Gray or Joe Don Baker "on the cheap." Just ask Connery.

    Dench is of course an exception because she is a treasure and an institution, and Barbara didn't have the heart to tell her she was out. Could anyone? Just try telling Judi Dench not to report to set!

    But that doesn't mean they should re-cast, say, Fiennes.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I don't need the biggest names returning but I've always dug it when background/character actors come back in some form or fashion.
  • Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Personally I’d be up for Salmon returning as M.
    Hell yes. Part of me wants him to remain in the Brosnan era to kind of 'preserve' that era as its own unique thing, but let's be honest here, having him return in any role is like reeling in a big fish...

    He seems to actually be on good terms with EoN still (I think I saw an interview where he praised NTTD/talked fondly of his time on Bond as well as EoN as a company). Assuming he’s available and was asked, going from that alone, I suspect he’d consider it. Also it’d be a nice way of preserving that Bond tradition of reusing actors for the MI6 regulars, at least in a way that’s removed enough from the Craig era to be that new character.

    I don't think he's great, sorry. I find his diction a bit weird: like he's putting on an accent and over-pronouncing everything. I don't doubt he'd do it: he's been doing EastEnders!
    I'd much rather have Michael Kitchen as M, he'd be wonderful (he would have been a great villain too - if you've ever seen his Edmund you'll know). He's knocking on a little though I guess and doesn't seem to do an awful lot- last time I saw him was in that Kemps thing (which he's hilarious in).

    Fair enough. I suspect they’ll instinctually go for someone a bit more high profile, but I do think Salmon has a good, effective presence even if he’s not the greatest actor in the world. He didn’t do much as Robinson, but I think seeing someone on the MI6 team who was younger and looked a bit more in his prime added a bit of legitimacy, as if he was an effective ally who could help head up an efficient team, and that Bond had that behind him (again, however superficial that was in practice). Kitchen, while great and had good chemistry with Brosnan in GE, was consciously quite a haggard looking Tanner, and someone who put his foot in his mouth/didn’t do much otherwise. Obviously prior to this we had an M/Minister of Defence over the age of 60 with large jowls and weren’t always depicted as entirely savy.

    Salmon’s older now, but he could bring something cool to the role in a similar way. He’s an actor who could have conceivably played Bond at one time (I think he even stood in and played Bond for EON to screen test actresses) or at least comes across as someone who could conceivably have been an agent before becoming M. If they leaned into that idea for this new M/Bond’s relationship (ie more older/younger brother than the more paternal one we usually get) or do something a bit different with the character, I can see him working and perhaps even compliment/create a cool dynamic with the actor playing Bond in a way that doesn’t overshadow them.
  • Posts: 1,985
    mtm wrote: »
    She's amazing. I kind of dream of them keeping her on ice for a movie and using her for Vesper. Imagine her in the train scene.
    She'd be a very interesting M nowadays.

    A fine actress, but would not have worked as well in train scene.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 16 Posts: 16,382
    I think most actors would have been better in the train scene than Green as it seemed written for a Diana Rigg type who could deliver playful badinage with a twinkle in her eye which Green visibly struggled with for me, but will agree to differ! :)
    Pike was easily the best thing about the over-hyped Saltburn for me, she's a brilliant and very skilful actor.
  • Posts: 4,139
    echo wrote: »
    She is incredible.

    This may be controversial...but I don't really "get" how reusing actors in different roles is a "tradition." To me it's just Cubby wanting to get actors like Charles Gray or Joe Don Baker "on the cheap." Just ask Connery.

    Dench is of course an exception because she is a treasure and an institution, and Barbara didn't have the heart to tell her she was out. Could anyone? Just try telling Judi Dench not to report to set!

    But that doesn't mean they should re-cast, say, Fiennes.

    Indeed, it was more for practical reasons, but if casting a certain actor who appeared previously works creatively it’s also a nice nod in a way (for the record I don’t think getting Fiennes back is a good idea and I don’t think it’d be effective creatively). At least for someone like Salmon enough time has passed.

    I can’t imagine Pike as M, although she’s fantastic.
  • Posts: 1,985
    @mtm - Most actors? I don't think so. But yes, we differ. Sometimes I will see an actor in a role and wish someone else had been cast. But never with Green in any scene from CR.
    The same with Rigg. I don't want to see someone in that role. I can't say the same with many other Bond films.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Pike is incredible and, as @mtm said, she ran away with Saltburn.

    She is skilled, and is one of those actors I think could play any role presented to her.

    I loved Green, but I could see another universe where Pike would knock it out of the park playing Vesper. And to see her and Craig play off each other may have the potential to melt my brain.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    In a different universe, I thought Rosamund Pike would have made an excellent Madeleine Swann. She was wasted in Die Another Day, I love her in the film but I wish she starred in the Craig era
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited May 16 Posts: 13,789
    Public domain will bring the longtime Zombie Bond concept to fruition.

  • Posts: 2,266
    One of the thoughts that I've had regarding Bond #7 (whoever they cast) is that he'll already have some competition in the form of the Project 007 video game from IOI Interactive (assuming that Game is released before Bond 26.) If that version of Bond is extremely well received from Gamers and Bond fans alike, then Bond #7 will inevitably receive some comparisons to this new Video Game Bond in addition to the previous Bond actors. Something similar happened with both Ben Affleck and Robert Pattinson being compared (in some cases quite unfairly) to the Arkham Batman.
  • Posts: 1,985
    Based of previously marvelous roles, I wonder how many Bond fans thought Christoph Waltz and Rami Malek would knock it out of the park.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Based of previously marvelous roles, I wonder how many Bond fans thought Christoph Waltz and Rami Malek would knock it out of the park.

    I certainly had very high hopes for both. Can't say that either disappointed, though I'm still a bit unsure about Waltz' Blofeld. I like the actor and his portrayal, but something fails to "click", and I can't quite put my finger on what that is.
  • Posts: 1,985
    And then there's the seemingly wrong headed casting of Telly Savalas who manages to be the best Blofeld yet. Go figure. He was enjoyable to watch, whereas every other ESB simply isn't. DP brought too much angry intensity to the role, whereas TS was quite nonchalant. I won't even consider Gray. His ESB is about as hokey as the bald guy in the wheelchair in FYEO. CW should have worked, but I agree. Something never quite clicked. As for RM as the villain, he is very near the bottom of my list.
  • edited May 17 Posts: 1,985
    Should the day come we see a new Bond, I hope we get a fun villain along the lines of GF, and ESB in OHMSS. Comfortable enough in their criminal skins to be fun to watch.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Should the day come we see a new Bond, I hope we get a fun villain along the lines of GF, and ESB in OHMSS. Comfortable enough in their criminal skins to be fun to watch.

    I hope we see the villains plan told visually like in the old days. That's a big missing element. In the last two films, it feels like a distant, nebulous thing that the audience isn't really clear about.
  • edited May 17 Posts: 4,139
    Well, sort of. Bond villain monologues about their grand plans are a thing. And sometimes they’re quite convoluted/unclear if you’re not paying attention to that monologue (ie. You wouldn’t quite understand just going from visuals how Carver’s plan from TND involves Chang, or what exactly Dr. No is doing toppling American missiles/how he’s doing it if you haven’t paid attention to the little bits of dialogue about it. Hell, the specifics of films like FRWL and OP particularity fall apart if you don’t listen to the relatively long stretches of dialogue).

    When it comes down to it though, a Bond film needs a threat that’s visualised and tangible, I agree. A ticking bomb, a missile about to launch etc. Even convoluted films like FRWL boils down the concept of Bond being targeted into the PTS. Other films like DN aren’t quite as visual though, and if you watched the third act of that film without the sound on I don’t think the actual threat and understanding what Bond has to do would be clear (the toppling missiles thing is only brought up in dialogue once earlier on from what I remember, and the visuals of No’s control room doesn’t inherently lend itself to a clear explanation. It’s the sort of thing even watching the film normally that sort of comes from left field in a sense). I felt NTTD actually did this a lot better as we actually saw what the nanobots could do, and visually the beats were there. The buyer ships coming in and map with graphics, while not great, were better than how SP handled these sorts of visuals (ie. A countdown to a programme going doesn’t quite work as it can be taken down instantly). It’s just Safin’s actual villain monologue about why he’s doing this is a bit unclear. But I suspect without sound it’d be easier to understand than DN’s climax, albeit on a basic level.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 17 Posts: 16,382
    Yeah it is funny how Dr No doesn't really show us the missiles which are at the heart of the plan. At least TND has the missile right there in the middle of everything.
    It's why I think Thunderball has a bit of a failure of a villain's plan: once they're removed from the Vulcan we don't see the bombs again, and they're offscreen threatening cities we don't see and which Bond himself isn't in. Weirdly it might have actually helped to cut back to M and Moneypenny, because they're actually more under threat in the climax.
    I feel like either you've got to actually see the method of destruction of these places and Bond should be with them (MR, GE, TSWLM etc.) and/or Bond himself has got to be personally in the firing line, otherwise the threat feels too detached.
  • edited May 17 Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah it is funny how Dr No doesn't really show us the missiles which are at the heart of the plan. At least TND has the missile right there in the middle of everything.
    It's why I think Thunderball has a bit of a failure of a villain's plan: once they're removed from the Vulcan we don't see the bombs again, and they're offscreen threatening cities we don't see and which Bond himself isn't in. Weirdly it might have actually helped to cut back to M and Moneypenny, because they're actually more under threat in the climax.
    I feel like either you've got to actually see the method of destruction of these places and Bond should be with them (MR, GE, TSWLM etc.) and/or Bond himself has got to be personally in the firing line, otherwise the threat feels too detached.

    Yeah, agreed about TB and DN. Young’s an interesting Bond director, but not always the most visually savvy with his storytelling decisions. FRWL is I think is by far his most cinematic Bond film in this regard. I think he benefitted from Hunt’s editing in this area too to bring more to certain scenes, and of course the script being more ironed out than DN’s.

    I think it comes down to that old principle that showing (or conveying or whatever you want to call it) is more impactful than telling. Even when it comes to those expository villain monologues and not necessary the visuals. Something like Silva’s rat speech or Blofeld’s aside about the fish in FRWL are far more impactful and tell you a lot about their characters/goals compared to Safin outright giving his thoughts on free will/philosophically why he wants to use the nanobots (and even then I’m not entirely sure what he’s talking about).
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    Safin's a great visual, but there's really nothing behind the mask.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 814
    With the whole public domain thing coming up in ten years, that might be the in that Tarantino needs to finally make his CR movie, if he eschews a number of Bond elements that'll stay under copyright. This is also assuming he hasn't retired from filmmaking yet in 2034. I don't think I've commented on Tarantino wanting to make or remake CR before, partly, I suppose, because I've been gone from MI6 for six months. I'll say that I've never liked the idea of him adapting a classic Fleming novel. His style just doesn't jibe with Bond, IMO. Here's hoping the project stays dead.
  • Posts: 1,985
    DN and TB work fine the way they are. Maybe not as effective with the sound off, but then I don't watch Bond films with the sound off. For pure Bond film enjoyment, I prefer both films over any of the Brosnan or Craig films, with the exception of CR.
  • Posts: 4,139
    CrabKey wrote: »
    DN and TB work fine the way they are. Maybe not as effective with the sound off, but then I don't watch Bond films with the sound off. For pure Bond film enjoyment, I prefer both films over any of the Brosnan or Craig films, with the exception of CR.

    Haha, fair enough about the sound. I wouldn’t recommend watching those films with the sound off either (although I do think visuals/how well a film is crafted is very important). I think for me it comes down to which Bond films best get me into the story and make me feel captivated and entertained. The visual storytelling’s a big part of it, and an issue I have with DN is that some of choices in this area aren’t always as impactful as they could be. An example I sometimes use is the dragon scene where Quarrel dies. The lighting is just a bit too dark, the camera angle on the dragon is a bit too wide at times and gives away just how cheap it looks in terms of it being a truck that’s had eyes/a mouth painted on. Some odd decisions such as a lack of score or close up on Bond perhaps looking back towards Quarrel’s body leave me feeling a bit cold/awkward, whereas it could have been a genuinely dark and even emotionally impactful moment if there’d been a bit more ambition with the filmmaking choices. Just things like that for me keep it from being a great Bond film, as much as I love it. I have similar issues with TB.

    It’s why FRWL, SF and TSWLM are my favourite Bond films. For me the filmmaking of those movies are purposeful and precise, but in a way that gets me hooked into the story/not thinking consciously about what it’s doing, even though the impact is felt. But to each their own. We all have our favourite Bond films.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Great post 👍
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I've always loved the darkness in the dragon scene but I can see why some would feel it is a little dark. The bit there that always jumps out at me is just how often Bond's gun inexplicably changes.

    I appreciate Bond's line at dinner about getting revenge for Quarrel, but yes, a little moment of introspection or even an audible line by Bond in the moment would've been appreciated even more.
  • edited May 17 Posts: 4,139
    The other little moment I sometimes cite with DN’s filmmaking is when Bond goes back to his flat and hears Sylvia in the other room/takes out his gun. It’s completely shot in a wide, like we’re watching a play or something. The music getting louder creates all the tension, but there’s a disconnect between how still and non-dynamic the shot itself is, Connery’s acting, and that music. I can imagine some wouldn’t quite understand what’s happening on first viewing (I don’t just mean they don’t know what’s in the other room, but as in they wouldn’t quite understand what Bond’s doing). I think a director nowadays would instead use a tighter angle on Bond when he hears something, move the camera a bit more, do an alternative shot or two to show the audience what he’s looking towards/give a sense of what he’s thinking to compliment Connery’s performance and create a bit more tension. In fact Young himself did this in the hotel scene in FRWL.

    By the way, this isn’t me saying DN is a bad film at all. If the filmmaking for Bond’s introduction/slowly revealing him hadn’t been perfect then likely Bond wouldn’t have survived as a film series. It’s a just an early movie where EoN were still honing how to make a Bond film.
  • Posts: 1,340
    TB is a heist movie. The bad guys steal the bombs and Bond goes after them.

    The bombs are a macguffin like the Lektor or the ATAC. It could be a pirate treasure or gold and it would be the same.

    TB is the perfect summer movie. It's funny that they released this movie in December
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    007HallY wrote: »
    The other little moment I sometimes cite with DN’s filmmaking is when Bond goes back to his flat and hears Sylvia in the other room/takes out his gun. It’s completely shot in a wide, like we’re watching a play or something. The music getting louder creates all the tension, but there’s a disconnect between how still and non-dynamic the shot itself is, Connery’s acting, and that music. I can imagine some wouldn’t quite understand what’s happening on first viewing (I don’t just mean they don’t know what’s in the other room, but as in they wouldn’t quite understand what Bond’s doing). I think a director nowadays would instead use a tighter angle on Bond when he hears something, move the camera a bit more, do an alternative shot or two to show the audience what he’s looking towards/give a sense of what he’s thinking to compliment Connery’s performance and create a bit more tension. In fact Young himself did this in the hotel scene in FRWL.

    By the way, this isn’t me saying DN is a bad film at all. If the filmmaking for Bond’s introduction/slowly revealing him hadn’t been perfect then likely Bond wouldn’t have survived as a film series. It’s a just an early movie where EoN were still honing how to make a Bond film.

    I find Dr No kind of fascinating in that it feels like a 50s British movie made in colour, and then suddenly there's this pretty big leap to FRWL in only a few months. They really got where they were going, and Connery's portrayal came on a long way too- he's much more likeable in FRWL.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited May 17 Posts: 4,587
    Crazy to think that back in the 60s, the U.S got all 4 Bond films released within a 2.5 year span with FRWL and GF being released within 7 months of each other.

    That's some Marvel level of film releases back then
  • edited May 17 Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The other little moment I sometimes cite with DN’s filmmaking is when Bond goes back to his flat and hears Sylvia in the other room/takes out his gun. It’s completely shot in a wide, like we’re watching a play or something. The music getting louder creates all the tension, but there’s a disconnect between how still and non-dynamic the shot itself is, Connery’s acting, and that music. I can imagine some wouldn’t quite understand what’s happening on first viewing (I don’t just mean they don’t know what’s in the other room, but as in they wouldn’t quite understand what Bond’s doing). I think a director nowadays would instead use a tighter angle on Bond when he hears something, move the camera a bit more, do an alternative shot or two to show the audience what he’s looking towards/give a sense of what he’s thinking to compliment Connery’s performance and create a bit more tension. In fact Young himself did this in the hotel scene in FRWL.

    By the way, this isn’t me saying DN is a bad film at all. If the filmmaking for Bond’s introduction/slowly revealing him hadn’t been perfect then likely Bond wouldn’t have survived as a film series. It’s a just an early movie where EoN were still honing how to make a Bond film.

    I find Dr No kind of fascinating in that it feels like a 50s British movie made in colour, and then suddenly there's this pretty big leap to FRWL in only a few months. They really got where they were going, and Connery's portrayal came on a long way too- he's much more likeable in FRWL.

    Yeah definitely. I know people who have said to me they like DN because it has an old school cinematic quality. Other people I know say it’s dated haha. But yes, I think FRWL feels much more polished and Connery actually feels more human and Bond-like. I think a lot of it comes from Bond being less in control of the situation compared to DN (and it is genuinely odd how much Bond is one step ahead throughout that film until the very end, which is very unlike the literary character) and he’s on the back foot until the very end.
    Crazy to think that back in the 60s, the U.S got all 4 Bond films released within a 2.5 year span with FRWL and GF being released within 7 months of each other.

    That's some Marvel level of film releases back then

    To be fair I suppose they had novels to adapt, and the simple truth is nowadays films cost and take more time to make at this level.
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