Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I don't know a lot about the ins and outs of the box office, it seems not just the accessibility of new films on streaming, but I think the length of new films doesn't help.

    A few of my mates saw the new Mad Max film on Friday and they all said it was good, but probably 20 minutes too long. I'm taking my girlfriend and her little sister to see the film tomorrow night, they're fans of the series, and both were checking the runtime before anything else. It feels like under 2 hour films just don't exist anymore

    The industry hasn't adapted to the new reality in a post covid, post strikes world. They're still working on the model of a known IP + 2hrs 20 minute runtime + 150 million budget = success. Pretty much all the success stories of the past 2 years (besides barbenhiemer, mario and avatar) have been films with a maximum 120/40 million budget. What is getting people to theatres nowadays is unique, fresh experiences on a lower budget and tighter runtime. Otherwise people don't feel like making the trip for, Fast and Furious 10, Aquaman 2 or the Marvels. Its just more of what we've seen before. Even Furiosa seems to sell itself as more Fury Road again.

    It might also have something to do with Fast X, Aquaman 2 and The Marvels failing to appeal to audiences. Had these films been shorter, it's doubtful that they'd have done better business. Fast X is just a stupid movie. Snyder's DC-verse was dead long before Aquaman 2's release. Marvel has been struggling for years.

    The Batman is a three-hour movie with a very big budget, and it made money. Oppenheimer did too. Dune 2 is a long movie, and it made a profit. Avatar: The Way of Water was an even longer movie with an even bigger budget, and it made 2.3 billion.

    It would seem that some lengthy films with an explosive budget still pass the test. And some don't. Isn't that just the nature of cinema in general, though? Some films appeal to an audience, and some films don't. We may as well wonder if the opposite -- shorter and cheaper films standing a better chance of doing well -- is true. I think not. And what about long expensive films (e.g. Killers of the Flower Moon) not making a profit but being a critical success? Furiosa hasn't made much money yet (two days since its release, mind) but it's already received positive reviews. It's far too early to call it a failure.

    These generalisations usually amount to nothing. For every example, there's a counter-example. And as for Bond, history has shown that we can never tell what happens next, but Bonds usually make money, no matter how lengthy they are.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited May 26 Posts: 9,509
    I feel like Bond will always conquer the box office. The mention of his name creates cinema frenzy. Look how the internet caught fire when the ATJ unconfirmed Bond news went viral.

    Yeah, Bond is a different beast and The Fall Guy and Furiosa just aren’t good measuring sticks.

    Saying that, four years of Covid and the strikes have altered the landscape. And that’s why the release really needs to feel like an event— in a similar way Skyfall was released (that event was attached to the Olympics, and all of that, so this next film, and its release, has to stand on its own two feet with a loud declaration that Bond is back).

    Instead of shying away from its 60 plus year history, it should lean into it and show that nobody has more class and style than James Bond.

    A big and sexy soundtrack with a kick ass theme song.

    Sexy eye candy with actors dressed impeccably, while they engage in a great adventure the only way James Bond can.

    The release has to declare that there’s only one James Bond, and all the other series out there are just paper thin pretenders.

    Lean into Bond being the best.

    Lean into Bond as the alpha.

    Release the film with utter swagger and confidence and a roar that Bond Is Back, and better than ever.

    Have fun with it, and flex the James Bond muscles and showcase that kind of big (d!ck) man energy.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    peter wrote: »
    Lean into Bond being the best.

    Lean into Bond as the alpha.

    Release the film with utter swagger and confidence and a roar that Bond Is Back, and better than ever.

    Have fun with it, and flex the James Bond muscles and showcase that kind of big (d!ck) man energy.

    Which is why I hope the veer away from another ballad for the title song.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    I feel like Bond will always conquer the box office. The mention of his name creates cinema frenzy. Look how the internet caught fire when the ATJ unconfirmed Bond news went viral.

    And a few years ago people thought the same about Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Disney Princess films, Pixar etc.

    No one is safe, EON are smart to wait this out. They want to position themselves to ride the crest of a cinematic revival, not the last in a year's long string of flops.

    I give the producers my fair share of grief in recent times, but on this Babs is very shrewd. Bond films need to land like a thunderclap, and in the modern age the only way to do that is to wait and get the timing just right, when people are truly hungry for Bond again.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Yes, Eon is right to keep Bond as a cinema event. As painful as it was to wait for NTTD through Covid, that was the correct call.

    Marvel killed the golden goose with too many movie releases and TV shows. Ditto Star Wars. And the Fast franchise was dumb from the start. RIP Paul Walker, but sheesh, what a collection of bad actors.

    Somehow, by adapting and biding his time, Bond always survives.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    echo wrote: »
    Yes, Eon is right to keep Bond as a cinema event. As painful as it was to wait for NTTD through Covid, that was the correct call.

    Marvel killed the golden goose with too many movie releases and TV shows. Ditto Star Wars. And the Fast franchise was dumb from the start. RIP Paul Walker, but sheesh, what a collection of bad actors.

    Somehow, by adapting and biding his time, Bond always survives.

    Yep, a killer Bond videogame in 2025/6 followed by a pearl of a Bond film in 2027/8, and suddenly Bond as a brand is leagues ahead of the competition.
  • Posts: 1,996
    talos7 wrote: »
    Which is why I hope the veer away from another ballad for the title song.

    I know the last three Bond songs won Oscars, but please! Enough of the depressing ballads. We need something explosive again like LALD, AVTAK, and CR.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,590
    Streaming killed the theater experience as well. We all got used to just waiting for it to come out on one of the many services since it's cheaper than going out to see it. Figure 10 years ago, if you missed it in theaters, you had to wait months before renting or buying only on a physical platform. 20 years ago it was even longer
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    Streaming killed the theater experience as well. We all got used to just waiting for it to come out on one of the many services since it's cheaper than going out to see it. Figure 10 years ago, if you missed it in theaters, you had to wait months before renting or buying only on a physical platform. 20 years ago it was even longer

    This I agree with. In the '90s it was "disastrous" not to be able to see a highly anticipated film in the theatre; it took about a year for most films to be released on VHS. Nowadays, there's hardly a difference between theatrical and home cinema releases. I haven't felt the need to go to cinemas post-COVID, except for NTTD and The Batman. I used to spend about 3 nights per week in cinemas. Granted, I'm a family man, now, but that's not the only explanation. A little patience, and you're able to see a film in the comfort of your home. Better than having an expensive ticket ruined by loud teens, gossiping women and flashing smartphones. Only a handful of cinema releases get me excited anymore to make it to their premiere.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Streaming killed the theater experience as well. We all got used to just waiting for it to come out on one of the many services since it's cheaper than going out to see it. Figure 10 years ago, if you missed it in theaters, you had to wait months before renting or buying only on a physical platform. 20 years ago it was even longer

    This I agree with. In the '90s it was "disastrous" not to be able to see a highly anticipated film in the theatre; it took about a year for most films to be released on VHS. Nowadays, there's hardly a difference between theatrical and home cinema releases. I haven't felt the need to go to cinemas post-COVID, except for NTTD and The Batman. I used to spend about 3 nights per week in cinemas. Granted, I'm a family man, now, but that's not the only explanation. A little patience, and you're able to see a film in the comfort of your home. Better than having an expensive ticket ruined by loud teens, gossiping women and flashing smartphones. Only a handful of cinema releases get me excited anymore to make it to their premiere.

    Will you watch Batman part 2 in cinemas I wonder?
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,059
    peter wrote: »
    I feel like Bond will always conquer the box office. The mention of his name creates cinema frenzy. Look how the internet caught fire when the ATJ unconfirmed Bond news went viral.

    Yeah, Bond is a different beast and The Fall Guy and Furiosa just aren’t good measuring sticks.

    Saying that, four years of Covid and the strikes have altered the landscape. And that’s why the release really needs to feel like an event— in a similar way Skyfall was released (that event was attached to the Olympics, and all of that, so this next film, and its release, has to stand on its own two feet with a loud declaration that Bond is back).

    Instead of shying away from its 60 plus year history, it should lean into it and show that nobody has more class and style than James Bond.

    A big and sexy soundtrack with a kick ass theme song.

    Sexy eye candy with actors dressed impeccably, while they engage in a great adventure the only way James Bond can.

    The release has to declare that there’s only one James Bond, and all the other series out there are just paper thin pretenders.

    Lean into Bond being the best.

    Lean into Bond as the alpha.

    Release the film with utter swagger and confidence and a roar that Bond Is Back, and better than ever.

    Have fun with it, and flex the James Bond muscles and showcase that kind of big (d!ck) man energy.

    Yes!!! Yes!!!! Yessshhhh!!!!!! :D
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,059
    I feel like Bond will always conquer the box office. The mention of his name creates cinema frenzy. Look how the internet caught fire when the ATJ unconfirmed Bond news went viral.

    And a few years ago people thought the same about Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Disney Princess films, Pixar etc.

    No one is safe, EON are smart to wait this out. They want to position themselves to ride the crest of a cinematic revival, not the last in a year's long string of flops.

    I give the producers my fair share of grief in recent times, but on this Babs is very shrewd. Bond films need to land like a thunderclap, and in the modern age the only way to do that is to wait and get the timing just right, when people are truly hungry for Bond again.

    Exactly! :)>-
  • edited May 26 Posts: 1,996
    I mentioned in an earlier post being on a flight with a couple of hundred film selections and it was almost impossible to find a film I wanted to see. Many I had seen already and of the things I hadn't it was F&F, Marvel, DC, kids animation, and similar fare. Unfortunately, the cinema is not much better. There is so little I want to see. I prefer seeing films in a theatre (when no distractions), but the offerings are thin. A Bond film I will always see in a theatre first. These past few years I have found more enjoyable fare in limited series offered by streaming services and British crime drama. That said, made for streaming services films have been no better. For me the takeaway is the future of the cinema film doesn't feel encouraging. Live theatre is also in decline, with many theaters large and small cutting back and/or shutting down. Is the local cinema headed in the direction of magazines, newspapers, and bookstores?
  • Posts: 949
    Cinema is dead. Deadpool/Wolverine might do well, The Fantastic Four in Summer 2025 should do amazingly. Bond will have to work some magic targetting/appealing to the 20-something crowd. Turning on the younger women is the key.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Streaming killed the theater experience as well. We all got used to just waiting for it to come out on one of the many services since it's cheaper than going out to see it. Figure 10 years ago, if you missed it in theaters, you had to wait months before renting or buying only on a physical platform. 20 years ago it was even longer

    This I agree with. In the '90s it was "disastrous" not to be able to see a highly anticipated film in the theatre; it took about a year for most films to be released on VHS. Nowadays, there's hardly a difference between theatrical and home cinema releases. I haven't felt the need to go to cinemas post-COVID, except for NTTD and The Batman. I used to spend about 3 nights per week in cinemas. Granted, I'm a family man, now, but that's not the only explanation. A little patience, and you're able to see a film in the comfort of your home. Better than having an expensive ticket ruined by loud teens, gossiping women and flashing smartphones. Only a handful of cinema releases get me excited anymore to make it to their premiere.

    Will you watch Batman part 2 in cinemas I wonder?

    @Mendes4Lyfe Batman always gets me in the theatre, more than once, in fact. So yes!
    Cinema is dead. Deadpool/Wolverine might do well, The Fantastic Four in Summer 2025 should do amazingly. Bond will have to work some magic targetting/appealing to the 20-something crowd. Turning on the younger women is the key.

    @DewiWynBond
    I'll do what I can. 😁😁
  • Posts: 910
    Cinema is dead.
    My impression is that many films suffer from the fact that, barely a few weeks after their theater release, they are accessible on streaming platforms. People are not motivated to go to movie theaters when they know that they will be able to see the same film in a few weeks at home thanks to the subscription they already pay for.

    It will be important to see what strategy Amazon intends to adopt and if they plan to release Bond 26 online quickly after the theater release. And I agree that Eon needs to better sell its product to a young audience. The Craig era was very cautious in terms of marketing and products, favouring luxury products, preventing, in my opinion, the franchise from being as popular as it could be.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    Cinema is dead. Deadpool/Wolverine might do well, The Fantastic Four in Summer 2025 should do amazingly. Bond will have to work some magic targetting/appealing to the 20-something crowd. Turning on the younger women is the key.

    Cinema has been dying since, well, a long time. Then you get events like Barbenhiemer, or Top Gun Maverick and all seems well again. I think the reality is that covid, streaming and the strikes have dramatically reshaped the landscape, and its up to Hollywood to catch up to the audience. Throwing 300 million at a IP like Indiana Jones or F&F and expecting an easy 800+ million dollar return simply won't cut it anymore. You have to deliver something different, take some risks. Trust creative people with a vision, that's what made Barbenhiemer so refreshing.

    EON are doing the smart thing, biding their time, getting their ducks in a row. Bond 26 has to be the most hyped return we've ever seen, literally back from the dead, and if it means we have some fallow years in the meantime, then that's fine by me. As long as the movie is a smash, and goes some way to reinvigorate young people's interest in bond (along with the videogame) then it'll be more than worth it. As long as Bond 26 has a similar cultural impact as Goldeneye, Casino Royale and Skyfall in recent years, things will look good for the future.
  • edited May 26 Posts: 1,369
    I feel like Bond will always conquer the box office. The mention of his name creates cinema frenzy. Look how the internet caught fire when the ATJ unconfirmed Bond news went viral.

    And a few years ago people thought the same about Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Disney Princess films, Pixar etc.

    No one is safe,
    EON are smart to wait this out. They want to position themselves to ride the crest of a cinematic revival, not the last in a year's long string of flops.

    I give the producers my fair share of grief in recent times, but on this Babs is very shrewd. Bond films need to land like a thunderclap, and in the modern age the only way to do that is to wait and get the timing just right, when people are truly hungry for Bond again.

    That's why hiring Nolan is a good idea. We are talking about this all the time.
  • Posts: 949
    DarthDimi wrote: »

    @DewiWynBond
    I'll do what I can. 😁😁

    If you could please, the fututre of mankind depends on this. Just flex them muscles, portray their ultimate fantasy and they'll come flockng in. Along with their boyfrinds hehe.
    Cinema is dead.
    People are not motivated to go to movie theaters

    Pretty much it.

  • Posts: 579
    I feel like Bond will always conquer the box office. The mention of his name creates cinema frenzy. Look how the internet caught fire when the ATJ unconfirmed Bond news went viral.

    And a few years ago people thought the same about Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Disney Princess films, Pixar etc.

    No one is safe,
    EON are smart to wait this out. They want to position themselves to ride the crest of a cinematic revival, not the last in a year's long string of flops.

    I give the producers my fair share of grief in recent times, but on this Babs is very shrewd. Bond films need to land like a thunderclap, and in the modern age the only way to do that is to wait and get the timing just right, when people are truly hungry for Bond again.

    That's why hiring Nolan is a good idea. We are talking about this all the time.

    Bingo.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    I feel like Bond will always conquer the box office. The mention of his name creates cinema frenzy. Look how the internet caught fire when the ATJ unconfirmed Bond news went viral.

    And a few years ago people thought the same about Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Disney Princess films, Pixar etc.

    No one is safe,
    EON are smart to wait this out. They want to position themselves to ride the crest of a cinematic revival, not the last in a year's long string of flops.

    I give the producers my fair share of grief in recent times, but on this Babs is very shrewd. Bond films need to land like a thunderclap, and in the modern age the only way to do that is to wait and get the timing just right, when people are truly hungry for Bond again.

    That's why hiring Nolan is a good idea. We are talking about this all the time.

    Well, you are.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    This entire idea that Nolan is the only one who could trap an audience into buying cinema tickets for a Bond film is ludicrous. Even if it were so, then we might as well kiss the Bond series farewell for IF Nolan ever does a Bond -- and that's a very big if -- he's certainly not going to do 4 or 5 of them. Either way, it's ridiculous to think that audiences care all that much about who directs a Bond film, even if it is Nolan.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    Furiosa made just 25 million over the 3 day weekend with a projected 4 day weekend of 31 million on a budget of 168 million. Those aren't good numbers. I'm almost glad we don't have a Bond film dropping in the current climate, its a dreary time for new movies releasing right now. Let's hope the rest of summer brings some encouragement.
  • Posts: 1,996
    As we have heard nothing from BB, I'm not ready to credit her with being shrewd. She could easily be flummoxed. As for Nolan, is he that big with the 20 somethings and younger film goers?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    CrabKey wrote: »
    As we have heard nothing from BB, I'm not ready to credit her with being shrewd. She could easily be flummoxed. As for Nolan, is he that big with the 20 somethings and younger film goers?

    Well then it's good timing, now is a good time to be flummoxed.

    And we have heard bits from EON, I remembered Gregg recently saying something like "there will be another Bond film someday" which I think indicates they aren't in a hurry.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Cinema is dead. Deadpool/Wolverine might do well, The Fantastic Four in Summer 2025 should do amazingly. Bond will have to work some magic targetting/appealing to the 20-something crowd. Turning on the younger women is the key.

    Cinema has been dying since, well, a long time. Then you get events like Barbenhiemer, or Top Gun Maverick and all seems well again. I think the reality is that covid, streaming and the strikes have dramatically reshaped the landscape, and its up to Hollywood to catch up to the audience. Throwing 300 million at a IP like Indiana Jones or F&F and expecting an easy 800+ million dollar return simply won't cut it anymore. You have to deliver something different, take some risks. Trust creative people with a vision, that's what made Barbenhiemer so refreshing.

    EON are doing the smart thing, biding their time, getting their ducks in a row. Bond 26 has to be the most hyped return we've ever seen, literally back from the dead, and if it means we have some fallow years in the meantime, then that's fine by me. As long as the movie is a smash, and goes some way to reinvigorate young people's interest in bond (along with the videogame) then it'll be more than worth it. As long as Bond 26 has a similar cultural impact as Goldeneye, Casino Royale and Skyfall in recent years, things will look good for the future.


    You've changed your tune. Only a short while ago, you were saying that Bond 26 would need to be announced today or next week in order to make a 2026 release.
    As for box office numbers or projections. The only people that should worry about that are accountants and studio heads.
    What difference does it make to the average man on the street?
  • Posts: 1,996
    As I am not in the film industry, I suppose I am an average man on the street. (Maybe being a Bond fan exempts me from completely AMOTS.) A Bond film making money is important to me, otherwise films will stop being made.
  • edited May 26 Posts: 564
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Streaming killed the theater experience as well. We all got used to just waiting for it to come out on one of the many services since it's cheaper than going out to see it. Figure 10 years ago, if you missed it in theaters, you had to wait months before renting or buying only on a physical platform. 20 years ago it was even longer

    This I agree with. In the '90s it was "disastrous" not to be able to see a highly anticipated film in the theatre; it took about a year for most films to be released on VHS. Nowadays, there's hardly a difference between theatrical and home cinema releases. I haven't felt the need to go to cinemas post-COVID, except for NTTD and The Batman. I used to spend about 3 nights per week in cinemas. Granted, I'm a family man, now, but that's not the only explanation. A little patience, and you're able to see a film in the comfort of your home. Better than having an expensive ticket ruined by loud teens, gossiping women and flashing smartphones. Only a handful of cinema releases get me excited anymore to make it to their premiere.

    Gossiping women? I don't think any user — let alone a moderator — should engage in snide, casual misogyny. Men can talk just as loud in a theater as women.
  • Posts: 1,996
    Talkative patrons flashing smartphones would be better phrased. But does gossiping women really count as a dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited May 26 Posts: 13,813
    Yeah sounded like personal experience.

    Over an adult beverage, ask me sometime about the dude with leather pants fidgeting in the vinyl seat during the Bond film theater experience. I tuned him out, though.

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