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Tend to agree, when I watch TLD and he sparks up at Blayden, nowadays he looks a bit weak and nervous to me, whereas I think it was supposed to represent him being self-assured at the time. The meaning of cigarette smoking has changed over time; it's cinematic shorthand for weakness now, especially in the middle of a meeting(!).
The conversation is moot really anyway, it's not going to happen. Bond gave up smoking cigarettes regularly onscreen over 50 years ago. May as well ask for him to wear a frilly shirt with his dinner suit again! :D
Bond is a bastard but he is "our bastard".
I think part of the appeal is that he does things we can't do.
There’s an element of that for sure. I have a friend who says the major reason his favourite heroes are Bond and Batman is because they are, for all intents and purposes, ordinary men (I suppose he means that in the sense they don’t have superpowers nor do they have anything innately beyond the realms of plausibility in theory) who do extraordinary things. That and there’s something quite nice about the idea of such a man saving the world and that sort of stuff.
So meta.
I think both characters can fall into similar extremes. Batman can be depicted as infallible, one dimensional, and even a bit remorseless too. But we’ve seen both these characters get similar touches of humanity in so many different versions - both have had to deal with the impact of their vices in more than one incarnation, both have fallen in love, dealt with uncertainty etc. I think both characters work best when you have those touches between that aspirational fantasy, and hence what I think my friend means in part.
Very true my friend
I'm fine with Bond smoking when it feels right, like in a casino. Same with drinking. He can drink when I would have one. We're all human. I agree with the discussion that Bond should not be some model for physical or philosophical health.
He isn't for the most part, although he obviously is supposed to be pretty much the peak of manhood; but as I say, we reached this point in the Bond films where he stopped smoking cigarettes regularly over 50 years ago, before a good deal of people posting here I'd guess were born, and certainly time enough to get used to it. Alcohol isn't banned indoors in a huge amount of countries as smoking is, we don't hide drinks bottles in plain labels behind shutters in shops, and smoking, unlike drinking, is being eyed up for a total ban in the UK right now- they're not the exact same thing.
Maybe eventually it will be and 007 will stop drinking then too. It's just the passage of time.
Ask Fleming himself, man.
https://spymovienavigator.com/video/ian-fleming-didnt-intend-james-bond-to-be-likeable/
“I didn’t intend for Bond to be likeable. He’s a blunt instrument in the hands of the government. He’s got vices and few perceptible virtues.”
Besides, lots of unlikeable men attract women. Women fall in love with prisoners all the time.
Regardless, book Bond isn't movie Bond, where he's even more the hero.
But he also endured, during times of crisis, right from the start. He endured pain and suffering, and is, ultimately, triumphant. Sorry, Mr. Fleming, but these are likeable qualities.
And he fights for all of us, when he's stopping Drax from blowing up London, or when he's taking down SMERSH or SPECTRE. Honourable. And extremely likeable.
The films, smartly made him more likeable...
As for smoking: you can't put the paste back in the tube. We know what "coffin nails" do to people. We've been exposed to the evil and destructive nature the tobacco companies have wrought. It's been exposed for what it is. So having a classy man such as James Bond suck back smouldering chemicals deep ino his lungs is, in short, unattractive.
As for having a fit Bond, yes, why wouldn't we want this? Like with cigarettes, so much is known about the science of fitness, of lifting heavy weights and how it actually expands life and improves day to day wear and tear.
If you're a spy, and you're jumping, shooting, fighting, running, diving, swimming, driving at high speeds, taking on megalomaniacs and their henchmen/subordinates, then training with weights increases power and strength, but also agility and strength of the joints. You don't have to look like Ronnie Coleman to be fit and strong (and in Ronnie's case, he broke himself). But any actor playing James Bond should look like a man that when he hits, he does damage. When you hit him, he not only has the skill to absorb the punch, but his body could do so as well (and potentially, by hitting him, you may have a good chance at also hurting your fist on impact). I want it to look believable that a man can hold onto the outside of a helicopter, or take on (even if it's a losing cause), a Mr. Hinx, or be as fast and swift as to battle with a Mr. Slate. I want to see a man fit enough to crash through walls and leap from heights (and survive), while chasing down a bombmaker....
Exactly, @Venutius , and the thing is, modern-Bond doesn't have to like "the gym", nor does the actor playing him, but both the character and the actor knows that it's necessary if they're to be believed in this role.
Spectre came close with this concept (Madeleine asks if he exercises, and Bond replies "when I have to").
I wouldn't mind seeing a training scene and have Bond piss and grumble about it afterwards. Bond doesn't have to like keeping fit, but if he wants to keep his double-O he knows he has to maintain a certain high level of fitness.
And that's what makes the martinis go down a little faster.
This echoes back to what I was saying. Fit but not a Gym Rat. In the books he trained when he had to.
Also, someone else mentioned liking the idea of Bond smoking a joint instead of a cigarette. I can't think of anything more abhorrent for the character to do. It is THE total atheists of the character as Fleming envisioned him. OK, let's just completely reinvent the character.
Not sure Bond's that into sofas.
Using a wheelchair? Attached to an oxygen tank and mask?
(I kid, but, a guy who smokes three packs a day would have problems running a flight of stairs, in most cases).
@CrabKey , Roger last played 007 in '85. He, and his films, were a product of a different era. I think if Roger were cast today, he'd be ordered into six months of training with a proper progressive program in place.
There was a reason why Craig's trainer, a man with a military background, was hired (and the first thing he told Craig was quit the smokes and ham n cheese sandwiches, 😂).
But going back to Moore: I think not training him properly was a missed opportunity. The man was tall and broad. He had the structure to have an incredibly fit physique.
Seeing him fight in the belly dancer's room in TMWTGG showed a man who seemed much taller and broader than the goons. I don't know why they didn't capitalize on Moore's size, give him a basic fitness regiment to tighten his middle and chest, keep his fighting skills simple and clean, and he would have presented, when needed, a much more deadly version of himself (which wouldn't have taken away from his god given charm).
@CrabKey , I'm not sure I'm understanding this last post? Is someone talking about right and proper behavior?
Personally I want to see a man who is believable in the role. One who "looks the part". I loved when Craig is topless in QoS and we see a roadmap of violence tattooed all over his body. He definitely looks the part, but he also carries the scars (externally and internally).
Edit: @DewiWynBond , yes, 💯!!!
He was one of the most striking people I've ever seen in real life: like a cartoon character come to life. I've never seen someone with such wide shoulders and comparatively short legs - he was all torso, like Johnny Bravo! :D
The funny thing I always think about Roger and his relatively unconvincing fight scenes (!) is that he probably had about twice the amount of screen fights of all of the other Bonds combined, what with his various long-running TV shows where there would be the requisite two fights per episode.
Even his jaw and chin looked like it was chiselled by a comicbook artist.