Where does Bond go after Craig?

007HallY · June 30

I’d go as far to say that SF has one of the best opening shots of all time. But yeah, it’s a great PTS. Genuinely remember the first time I ever watched it. It felt like Bond had literally died. Obviously we’ve seen fake Bond deaths in the series before - ie. YOLT - but none were as believable, and it was actually quite impactful seeing Craig’s Bond slowly take hit after hit, struggle to fight Patrice with a bullet in his shoulder, and then get shot and fall.

mtm · June 30

007HallY wrote: »

Yeah, I always presumed it was Bond investigating/it wasn’t obvious Patrice had overtaken the two other agents until he got in the room. Gunshots wouldn’t necessarily mean much even if he had heard them, which we don’t actually know (the agents could possibly have killed Patrice if something had gone wrong for instance and have temporarily gone radio silent) and it’d be counterintuitive on Bond’s part to rush in/alert Patrice to his presence… and the shot wouldn’t look as cool with Bond running in (which yes, is a factor, even though it’s relatively logical). It’s very much a ‘begin as late as possible’ opening, which is actually good.

Again though to each their own. I certainly complain about/don’t like certain things in Bond films others wouldn’t think about normally or outright don’t see, so I can relate 😂

I love everything about SF, including the opening, but I guess thinking about it... what was it that put Bond there? With radio contact with M and Moneypenny in the car outside: had they had some sort of report that Ronson and his team were in danger? Had they had to retreat to a safe house and asked for backup or something? Why was Bond already local? The way they act about the laptop suggests that they knew Patrice would be after it- M should have told him to destroy it if they thought it was at risk, you'd think.
I love it, and it doesn't have to explain any of this stuff to be a brilliant sequence, but it's just fun to try and work out what the story before the film started was.

007ClassicBondFan wrote: »

Yeah Skyfall's PTS is just superb. I don't know how anybody could watch that entire sequence and not leave feeling amped for what is to come.

Yes, it's fantastic, one of the all-time best for my money. The way it builds and builds, and the music getting epic as the bikes ride across of the roofs of the Grand Bazaar... top Bond excitement. And it needs to be, as it's a very long time until another action sequence!

slide_99 · June 30

I don't "despise" SF's PTS, I just don't like Mendes' fussy style and I never found the chase exciting due to its linearity. They go from point A to point B without anything unexpected happening, and then end up on the train. It just seems too stagey.
Compare it to QOS's opening chase, which has a sense of spontaneity to it, like the Aston getting its door ripped off, Bond having to swerve into a quarry to avoid the roadblock, or the cop car nearly hitting Bond after it was shot up by the Quantum agents.
And again, I don't think the opening moments of SF make any sense, given what's shown. There are parts of SF that I like, but the opening isn't one of them. I actually think the movie gets better as it goes, before fumbling again in the 3rd act.

mtm · June 30

slide_99 wrote: »

Compare it to QOS's opening chase, which has a sense of spontaneity to it, like the Aston getting its door ripped off, Bond having to swerve into a quarry to avoid the roadblock, or the cop car nearly hitting Bond after it was shot up by the Quantum agents.

I don't really understand this comment. There's literally several moments where various participants have to swerve to avoid something unexpected, which takes them on a different path, just as Bond has to swerve into the quarry.

peter · June 30

mtm wrote: »

slide_99 wrote: »

Compare it to QOS's opening chase, which has a sense of spontaneity to it, like the Aston getting its door ripped off, Bond having to swerve into a quarry to avoid the roadblock, or the cop car nearly hitting Bond after it was shot up by the Quantum agents.

I don't really understand this comment. There's literally several moments where various participants have to swerve to avoid something unexpected, which takes them on a different path, just as Bond has to swerve into the quarry.

I also don’t understand this, but slide gets full points for actually (seemingly) watching this film.

The PTS makes quite a bit of sense: we’re dropped into the middle of an assignment where Bond seems to arrive seconds too late, after Patrice has infiltrated the safe house.

Perhaps Patrice got in because the men were expecting Bond to come and pick up the computer. Their guard is down, Patrice enters…

So Bond arrives at the safe house;

Hears a noise.

Pulls out his gun. Senses heightened.

Moves further into the flat where he spots the first dead body lying in a pool of his blood.

Moving further in, he sees Ronson, and realizes the hard drive’s been stolen.

He wants to help the fallen agent, but is ordered to pursue Patrice where-

We get a car chase. Then-

A shoot out in an open market. Then-

A motorcycle chase that continues on rooftops, then-

Bond and his opponent smash into another marketplace.

Now they’ve got people to dodge…

Patrice pulls ahead of Bond, but Moneypenny is waiting, and almost guns Patrice down.

He narrowly escapes, jumping off a bridge onto a moving train.

Leading Bond to use the speed of his motorcycle, smashing into the bridge’s railing, to propel him onto that same moving train. However-

He almost falls off;

Climbs back onto the roof of it.

Has another shootout, but-

Runs out of ammo. Then-

He takes on Particle in a digger.

Gets shot.

Loses control of the digger.

Takes out a bunch of VWs, that in turn almost take out Moneypenny.

Patrice uncouples the car, separating Bond and himself, but-

Bond continues his pursuit by having the digger rip into the train’s roof, using the machine’s arm like a bridge into the rest of the train that he’s been separated with.

Jumps into the train.

He’s wounded, but-

Climbs back on the roof to continue his battle with his opponent, where he’s blown away, accidentally, by Moneypenny.

@slide_99 … that is not moving from Point A to Point B without anything unexpected happening, and then they’re on the train! It’s like you’ve gone out of your way to oversimplify this sequence.

In fact, there are more unseen obstacles happening in this PTS than there are in Quantum, which is essentially a standard car chase with shaky cam, a door gets ripped off, and there were a few near misses.

But when you break down the beats of SF’s PTS, it’s beautifully loaded, and you can actually see the action!

mtm · June 30

Was thinking about this PTS: I have been enjoying NTTD recently but I think it is a little striking to compare the two- NTTD's has big stunts in the bridge and bike jumps, but like @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ and I often say, they're kind of missing that Bond feeling. And I think if you look at SF's PTS, you've got the crane-train jump and the bikes on the roofs, and I'd say both of those have a sense of triumph about them, which NTTD kind of misses. The DB5 doughnut does better on that front.

Venutius · June 30

And he straightens his cuffs...classic.

Reflsin2bourbons · June 30

mtm wrote: »

slide_99 wrote: »

Compare it to QOS's opening chase, which has a sense of spontaneity to it, like the Aston getting its door ripped off, Bond having to swerve into a quarry to avoid the roadblock, or the cop car nearly hitting Bond after it was shot up by the Quantum agents.

I don't really understand this comment. There's literally several moments where various participants have to swerve to avoid something unexpected, which takes them on a different path, just as Bond has to swerve into the quarry.

I just rewatched the Skyfall PTS, and its certainly put together well: on an analytical view its near perfect: the score builds the tension, we are immersed in the story quickly with little need for buildup, and chase changes dynamic every so often. (Mind you I do agree about the odd way Craig poses for entrance).

However, it doesn't jump out at me with anything jaw-dropping or extremely entertaining for me to chew on. I feel as if the PTS works as a short film and is quite good in that respect. But it doesn't work as an opening spectacle for me, if that makes sense. The straightforwardness of this plot makes this complaint make sense because the story doesn't have enough time to twist. (Neither does QoS, but that, with the crashing and editing is more of spectacle).

007HallY · June 30

mtm wrote: »

007HallY wrote: »

Yeah, I always presumed it was Bond investigating/it wasn’t obvious Patrice had overtaken the two other agents until he got in the room. Gunshots wouldn’t necessarily mean much even if he had heard them, which we don’t actually know (the agents could possibly have killed Patrice if something had gone wrong for instance and have temporarily gone radio silent) and it’d be counterintuitive on Bond’s part to rush in/alert Patrice to his presence… and the shot wouldn’t look as cool with Bond running in (which yes, is a factor, even though it’s relatively logical). It’s very much a ‘begin as late as possible’ opening, which is actually good.

Again though to each their own. I certainly complain about/don’t like certain things in Bond films others wouldn’t think about normally or outright don’t see, so I can relate 😂

I love everything about SF, including the opening, but I guess thinking about it... what was it that put Bond there? With radio contact with M and Moneypenny in the car outside: had they had some sort of report that Ronson and his team were in danger? Had they had to retreat to a safe house and asked for backup or something? Why was Bond already local? The way they act about the laptop suggests that they knew Patrice would be after it- M should have told him to destroy it if they thought it was at risk, you'd think.
I love it, and it doesn't have to explain any of this stuff to be a brilliant sequence, but it's just fun to try and work out what the story before the film started was.

Yeah, true. I suppose it says a lot about how effective the PTS is that you don't really ask yourself those questions in the moment. You just go along with the idea that Bond is in the middle of this assignment.

And to be fair, it's probably for the best that the PTS takes the audience along like that. Sometimes Bond films can break down if you start to question stuff in the moment! (For me it's TB's PTS. Whenever I watch it I can't help but ask why Bouvar felt the need to attend his own fake funeral dressed as his own widow... even if you try and come up with something akin to what you were saying about SF's PTS backstory it just makes him look daft).

talos7 · July 1

The PTS for SF was beautifully done and did a great job of setting up the rest of the film; being the frustrated , would love to have been, filmmaker that I am , I would have made an aesthetic choice for the opening sequence that would have slightly changed a thematic element of Bond being too old to that of being disillusioned. I never liked that only three films in that Bond was too old.

For the PTS I would have had Bond basically looking the same as he did in CR and QoS; more than anything this means the same hairstyle. Following his "death" we see Bond having shed the trappings of his life as a globe traveling spy ; this could have included a quick shot of him leaving a makeshift barber shop on the beach where he tosses down a few dollars, having received a quick clipper cut.

My point is that I would have preferred to have seen Bond as a man , and spy in his prime; age hasn't caught up with him as much as disillusionment. He feels that he, and other agents, has been abandoned and not allowed to finish the mission.