Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2021 Posts: 16,344
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I've always wanted Taron Egerton to play the role. Yes, I know he's done Kingsman but I think by the time the next film comes out, he'd be the right age.

    He's a great actor from what I've seen of him in Kingsman. The only thing he lacks is the harder edge to him, required to play Bond, perhaps that will come with age though

    I watched the critically panned Robin Hood last night that he starred in and there was some edge to him. I believe Connery never starred in any edgy films prior to Bond. That sort of thing can be learned and coached prior. He's gone on record saying that if offered, he would accept in a heartbeat

    It won't be him. Kingsman is too close the franchise.

    The next actor will be a relatively unknown name - and white, and male, and not gay - despite certain parts of the fanbase or public clamouring for such an actor. Sorry to break the bad news early.

    If I'm wrong, I'll eat my hat.

    Who is clamouring for those things you're talking about? Two people saying that they think Evans would be good is hardly 'clamouring'. I find it odd you can be so certain about something whilst admitting you have no idea if they make any difference or not. A lack of knowledge of one would usually preclude certainty on the other.
    You're not 'breaking any bad news': you're just stating what you think will happen.
  • Posts: 1,629
    Taron E -- too short, too small
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I've always wanted Taron Egerton to play the role. Yes, I know he's done Kingsman but I think by the time the next film comes out, he'd be the right age.

    He's a great actor from what I've seen of him in Kingsman. The only thing he lacks is the harder edge to him, required to play Bond, perhaps that will come with age though

    I watched the critically panned Robin Hood last night that he starred in and there was some edge to him. I believe Connery never starred in any edgy films prior to Bond. That sort of thing can be learned and coached prior. He's gone on record saying that if offered, he would accept in a heartbeat

    That sounds interesting mate, I'll have to seek out more of his films

    I wonder if the next Bond will start out as a seasoned 00 agent or whether we'll pick up early on his career?
    I hope it's similar to TLD and Goldeneye, in that he's James Bond 007 and we pick up from there.
    I doubt they can better Casino's brilliant origin story for Bond and I doubt they'd want unnecessary comparison's made
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited July 2021 Posts: 5,970
    I personally would prefer (and I've mentioned this before) something like what The Batman is doing. There, Bruce Wayne is being played by a young, very talented actor with good range (Robert Pattinson) in his second year as Batman.

    It just feels right (to me anyway). Fresh blood but no origin, and if extremely successful, could influence EON.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Yeah I was going to say exactly the same thing: early in the career but not the beginning. You can't really do another version of the story of Casino Royale, plus you can't really ever go hugely early with Bond because he's got to be 007 in the film really, and by the point he's a double 0 he's already a pretty experienced agent.

    If there flashbacks to him as a kid or a teen... I dunno, if there was a good story reason for it I might not object.

    Could you do a whole movie like MGW's early plans for Bond 15, with Bond being in the Navy etc. and only becoming 007 at the end? I guess it could be possible, I don't know really.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited July 2021 Posts: 5,970
    mtm wrote: »
    Could you do a whole movie like MGW's early plans for Bond 15, with Bond being in the Navy etc. and only becoming 007 at the end? I guess it could be possible, I don't know really.
    I don't think they would do it (way too risky and wouldn't be fair on the new actor imo) but it would be an interesting experiment given the uproar some have had with 007 mantle in No Time to Die haha :D
  • mtm wrote: »
    Could you do a whole movie like MGW's early plans for Bond 15, with Bond being in the Navy etc. and only becoming 007 at the end? I guess it could be possible, I don't know really.
    To be honest, even if Bond officially becomes 007 at the end of the treatment, MGW's early plans for Bond 15 were still about Bond doing Bondian things as a MI6 agent in a foreign country. Despite Cubby's apprehension, I don't think this premise would have alienated the audience, or at least not today audience, 80s audience is probably another beast. Not that I would particularly want to see Bond 26 be a new origin story following Bond on his first mission, concluding with his obtaining the 007 number. In my opinion, MGW's treatment had several weaknesses, but following our hero's first assignment wasn't one of them.

    Nevertheless, I definitely agree with @Denbigh , a Year Two Bond story à la The Batman is the road to take.
  • Posts: 377
    No more Bond becoming Bond, no origins stories, no soft or hard reboot, been there done that. Let's just have the new Bond as the fully formed secret agent.
  • cooperman2 wrote: »
    No origins stories, no soft or hard reboot, been there done that. Let's just have the new Bond as the fully formed secret agent.

    One is not necessarily contradictory with the other, a reboot can be something else than an origin story. In my opinion, there is little doubt that the next installment will be a reboot, whether soft or hard; the Craig era too many consequences for Bond's personal life, to not refer them will at least be making Bond 26 a soft-reboot. Now, a soft-reboot could see Bond as the fully formed secret agent, but, as Denbigh, I would like to see something similar to Matt Reeves's vision of Batman: an effective young man far from being an amateur, but who still has to learn to become a veteran.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    mtm wrote: »
    Could you do a whole movie like MGW's early plans for Bond 15, with Bond being in the Navy etc. and only becoming 007 at the end? I guess it could be possible, I don't know really.
    To be honest, even if Bond officially becomes 007 at the end of the treatment, MGW's early plans for Bond 15 were still about Bond doing Bondian things as a MI6 agent in a foreign country. Despite Cubby's apprehension, I don't think this premise would have alienated the audience, or at least not today audience, 80s audience is probably another beast. Not that I would particularly want to see Bond 26 be a new origin story following Bond on his first mission, concluding with his obtaining the 007 number. In my opinion, MGW's treatment had several weaknesses, but following our hero's first assignment wasn't one of them.

    Nevertheless, I definitely agree with @Denbigh , a Year Two Bond story à la The Batman is the road to take.

    Oh yeah, I thought the B15 story had a lot of problems, but I was more trying to think whether it was possible to do another, different ‘Bond Begins’. I think it probably is possible to go earlier than CR did. The only slight problem is avoiding all of those ‘he really is Bond now!’ moments.
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 1,220
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Could you do a whole movie like MGW's early plans for Bond 15, with Bond being in the Navy etc. and only becoming 007 at the end? I guess it could be possible, I don't know really.
    To be honest, even if Bond officially becomes 007 at the end of the treatment, MGW's early plans for Bond 15 were still about Bond doing Bondian things as a MI6 agent in a foreign country. Despite Cubby's apprehension, I don't think this premise would have alienated the audience, or at least not today audience, 80s audience is probably another beast. Not that I would particularly want to see Bond 26 be a new origin story following Bond on his first mission, concluding with his obtaining the 007 number. In my opinion, MGW's treatment had several weaknesses, but following our hero's first assignment wasn't one of them.

    Nevertheless, I definitely agree with @Denbigh , a Year Two Bond story à la The Batman is the road to take.

    Oh yeah, I thought the B15 story had a lot of problems, but I was more trying to think whether it was possible to do another, different ‘Bond Begins’. I think it probably is possible to go earlier than CR did. The only slight problem is avoiding all of those ‘he really is Bond now!’ moments.

    I would hope we avoid all that “he really is Bond now” stuff going forward as well. Even in CR he was Bond from the beginning, he was just inexperienced with a lot of hubris and arrogance but over the course of each film he’s become a little older and a little wiser, but at no point did he really come across as “not Bond yet”.
  • Posts: 16,149
    I think the post Craig era will strongly depend on how well NTTD is received.

    If it's highly acclaimed, a 'la CR and SF then I'd expect Barbara and Michael to, more or less, continue the Craig era formula with somebody else.
    Meaning: breaking tradition here and there, an openness to less than happy endings, and more emotionally driven story arcs.

    However, if NTTD turns out to be Craig's or even the series' nadir (subjectively speaking), I fully expect an extended delay, and a hard reboot.

    Regardless, I tend to think Barbara and Michael will find another way to go back to Fleming, and make it fresh and new.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,605
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I think the post Craig era will strongly depend on how well NTTD is received.

    If it's highly acclaimed, a 'la CR and SF then I'd expect Barbara and Michael to, more or less, continue the Craig era formula with somebody else.
    Meaning: breaking tradition here and there, an openness to less than happy endings, and more emotionally driven story arcs.

    However, if NTTD turns out to be Craig's or even the series' nadir (subjectively speaking), I fully expect an extended delay, and a hard reboot.

    Regardless, I tend to think Barbara and Michael will find another way to go back to Fleming, and make it fresh and new.

    I don’t think MGW will be around much longer. I think Greg will start producing more full time after NTTD. Not to be a downer.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I personally would prefer (and I've mentioned this before) something like what The Batman is doing. There, Bruce Wayne is being played by a young, very talented actor with good range (Robert Pattinson) in his second year as Batman.

    It just feels right (to me anyway). Fresh blood but no origin, and if extremely successful could, influence EON.

    Yeah I'd be more than happy if they did something like this, a younger Bond 007 but not a rookie. It leaves more possibilities for him growing as a character
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I think the post Craig era will strongly depend on how well NTTD is received.

    I think you may have a point there.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    If it's highly acclaimed, a 'la CR and SF then I'd expect Barbara and Michael to, more or less, continue the Craig era formula with somebody else.
    Meaning: breaking tradition here and there, an openness to less than happy endings, and more emotionally driven story arcs.

    However, if NTTD turns out to be Craig's or even the series' nadir (subjectively speaking), I fully expect an extended delay, and a hard reboot.

    Regardless, I tend to think Barbara and Michael will find another way to go back to Fleming, and make it fresh and new.

    It'll be a reboot no matter what, and wouldn't really expect the series to be any more 'Fleming' feeling than the Craig years have been. Personally I think Bond moved beyond Fleming years ago.
  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    A lack of knowledge of one would usually preclude certainty on the other.

    Not in this case. Like I said, if I'm wrong I'll eat my hat.
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    It'll be a reboot no matter what, and wouldn't really expect the series to be any more 'Fleming' feeling than the Craig years have been. Personally I think Bond moved beyond Fleming years ago.

    Well it has and it hasn't. Craig's debut was the closest tie-in to a Fleming novel since OHMSS, and for the rest of his tenure the producers have been trying to tap into a Fleming vibe, or `Fleming reimagined' ever since, without directly adapting any previously unused scenes from the books.

    Skyfall is a prime example of this.


  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2021 Posts: 16,344
    mtm wrote: »
    A lack of knowledge of one would usually preclude certainty on the other.

    Not in this case.

    In every case: it's just logic. A person not knowing how something works means they can't be certain about it.
    I don't think they definitely will go for a gay or non-white actor: it won't really show that there's a choice which has been made dismissing either of those things. There are fewer of them about to pick from, anyway. As a bet, it's an odds-on one purely because of the numbers involved.
    They obviously won't go for a woman. Not least because they have literally said they won't.
    mtm wrote: »
    It'll be a reboot no matter what, and wouldn't really expect the series to be any more 'Fleming' feeling than the Craig years have been. Personally I think Bond moved beyond Fleming years ago.

    Well it has and it hasn't. Craig's debut was the closest tie-in to a Fleming novel since OHMSS, and for the rest of his tenure the producers have been trying to tap into a Fleming vibe, or `Fleming reimagined' ever since, without directly adapting any previously unused scenes from the books.

    Skyfall is a prime example of this.

    Yes that's true; a vibe of Fleming is good (scorpion drinking game, NTTD's Jamaican spearfishing etc.) but going 'back' to the books doesn't excite me hugely. Skyfall was a dash of that Fleming vibe and a return to the feeling of Bond films of old.
    As I said, I wouldn't really expect the series to be any more 'Fleming' feeling than the Craig years have been.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,207
    I'd always like them to use Fleming as a springboard for a new era if they can. But only if they can actually update it in a way that makes sense like they did with CR. It's not going to be possible to do that with all of the books, and even harder now considering bits and pieces have been cherry picked through the years.

    If they can't update the stories in a way that makes sense, I'd rather they went their own way with things. The Fleming "reimagined" doesn't really do it for me. With that in mind, a film like GoldenEye would be a great template to use, I feel.
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »

    In every case: it's just logic. A person not knowing how something works means they can't be certain about it.
    I don't know how a plane works but I'm certain it will get me from A to B.
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think they definitely will go for a gay or non-white actor: it won't really show that there's a choice which has been made dismissing either of those things. There are fewer of them about to pick from, anyway. As a bet, it's an odds-on one purely because of the numbers involved.
    There we go. We are both on the same page, whether we like it or not.

    :P
  • Posts: 3,327
    I'd always like them to use Fleming as a springboard for a new era if they can. But only if they can actually update it in a way that makes sense like they did with CR. It's not going to be possible to do that with all of the books, and even harder now considering bits and pieces have been cherry picked through the years.

    If they can't update the stories in a way that makes sense, I'd rather they went their own way with things. The Fleming "reimagined" doesn't really do it for me. With that in mind, a film like GoldenEye would be a great template to use, I feel.

    I think The Horowitz novels would be a good idea. They both feel like Flemings work, and I think both novels could make decent adaptations to screen, whether just scenes or characters are used, or the entire novels themselves.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2021 Posts: 16,344
    mtm wrote: »

    In every case: it's just logic. A person not knowing how something works means they can't be certain about it.
    I don't know how a plane works but I'm certain it will get me from A to B.

    No, we know for certain that planes work: it is true that they can fly. You said you have no idea whether the thing you said is true or not, but then said you're certain you're right. If you can't see the lack of consistent logic there I can't help you. And that's an end to it.
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think they definitely will go for a gay or non-white actor: it won't really show that there's a choice which has been made dismissing either of those things. There are fewer of them about to pick from, anyway. As a bet, it's an odds-on one purely because of the numbers involved.
    There we go. We are both on the same page, whether we like it or not.

    :P

    I wouldn't eat my hat if it were an openly gay actor: I just happen to think it's more likely that it won't be because there are fewer leading men of that type who are openly gay.
    I'd always like them to use Fleming as a springboard for a new era if they can. But only if they can actually update it in a way that makes sense like they did with CR. It's not going to be possible to do that with all of the books, and even harder now considering bits and pieces have been cherry picked through the years.

    If they can't update the stories in a way that makes sense, I'd rather they went their own way with things. The Fleming "reimagined" doesn't really do it for me. With that in mind, a film like GoldenEye would be a great template to use, I feel.

    I think The Horowitz novels would be a good idea. They both feel like Flemings work, and I think both novels could make decent adaptations to screen, whether just scenes or characters are used, or the entire novels themselves.

    They're a lot of fun to read, but there's nothing in there which is such a strong idea that Eon can't write a story on a similar level.
    The most eye-catching bit from most is the Murder On Wheels stuff, and that only really works in period and is regardless still one of Fleming's more silly and unsatisfying ideas.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    I'd always like them to use Fleming as a springboard for a new era if they can. But only if they can actually update it in a way that makes sense like they did with CR. It's not going to be possible to do that with all of the books, and even harder now considering bits and pieces have been cherry picked through the years.

    If they can't update the stories in a way that makes sense, I'd rather they went their own way with things. The Fleming "reimagined" doesn't really do it for me. With that in mind, a film like GoldenEye would be a great template to use, I feel.

    Yes, using Fleming as a springboard is the best idea for a new Bond. I think of TLD...there wasn't a ton of Fleming, but there was enough.

    That being said, there's not a lot of usable Fleming left. It's now so dated and picked over. I can't see Eon dropping in, say, a giant squid, just to tick the boxes skipped over in 1962.

    Perhaps pieces of MR, TMWTGG, and THR.
  • Posts: 1,629
    How about they go completely contrarian and present an OLDER Bond ? I don't mean following up on D Craig's age. I mean Bond in his 70s or more. Get hold of George Lazenby and Timothy Dalton ! And not that Bond has been retired and gets called back to service. No. He's been working all along. He's not only good at surviving -- he's incredibly lucky. Lucky Number 7 ! Some traditional nemeses such as Blofeld could be around, just trying to outlast him. They're ready and they've BEEN ready to retire, but he hasn't and they won't until he's done by retirement or death ! OK that last part may be too far into spoofery, but I'm into this elder-Bond idea. Like an experienced fencer in the Olympics -- physical ability goes down with age, but wiles and cleverness and good defensive tactics carry the day. No creepy too-young ladies, though. The ladies who share intimate time with Bond should be mature. M, on the other hand, may be someone younger than Bond.
  • Posts: 121
    Since62 wrote: »
    How about they go completely contrarian and present an OLDER Bond ?

    I wouldn't mind a one-off with Pierce after NTTD.
  • echo wrote: »
    That being said, there's not a lot of usable Fleming left. It's now so dated and picked over. I can't see Eon dropping in, say, a giant squid, just to tick the boxes skipped over in 1962.

    Perhaps pieces of MR, TMWTGG, and THR.

    The first chapters of TMWTGG could be a great PTS and the ideal way to introduce a new Bond. Of all the unused Fleming elements, it is probably the most cinematographic and the one that could serve as inspiration for the Bond 26 team.
    I think The Horowitz novels would be a good idea. They both feel like Flemings work, and I think both novels could make decent adaptations to screen, whether just scenes or characters are used, or the entire novels themselves.
    I wouldn't mind seeing FAAD serving as inspiration if Eon chooses to go back to Bond's beginning. In a way, I think Horowitz succeeded better than MGW and Maibaum in the exercise of telling Bond's first mission and the outline of his plot (Bond investigates the murder of the previous 007, meets a femme fatale) is different enough from Casino Royale to be used on the big screen, although heavily revised (new bad guys, new location). I would be less thrilled to see Trigger Mortis though (even if I love the title).
  • Posts: 1,629
    As for using the title of Trigger Mortis but not faithfully following the book in all other ways, the producers are used to that !!!
  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    If you can't see the lack of consistent logic there I can't help you. And that's an end to it.

    I'm a lost cause... :(
    mtm wrote: »

    The most eye-catching bit from most is the Murder On Wheels stuff, and that only really works in period and is regardless still one of Fleming's more silly and unsatisfying ideas.

    That was my favourite bit in the whole novel, and I really liked the idea. But adapted to modern day, yes I agree. I'm not sure how it would work.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2021 Posts: 16,344
    mtm wrote: »

    The most eye-catching bit from most is the Murder On Wheels stuff, and that only really works in period and is regardless still one of Fleming's more silly and unsatisfying ideas.

    That was my favourite bit in the whole novel, and I really liked the idea. But adapted to modern day, yes I agree. I'm not sure how it would work.

    The issue for me is that the Russians don't have a good motive for their actions: they just want a propaganda victory. Which isn't really a very interesting motive.
    echo wrote: »
    That being said, there's not a lot of usable Fleming left. It's now so dated and picked over. I can't see Eon dropping in, say, a giant squid, just to tick the boxes skipped over in 1962.

    Perhaps pieces of MR, TMWTGG, and THR.

    The first chapters of TMWTGG could be a great PTS and the ideal way to introduce a new Bond. Of all the unused Fleming elements, it is probably the most cinematographic and the one that could serve as inspiration for the Bond 26 team.

    For me, the brainwashing stuff is slightly naff Man From UNCLE stuff. It might have worked in a 60s Connery film (where we saw things like perfect doubles of people being created through plastic surgery) but I'm not sure it'll fly today without feeling silly or spoofy.

    A part of me does wonder if, maybe, the ending of NTTD might feature Bond and Nomi encountering a terrifying CGI giant squid oozing out from under the surface of the water in Safin's base, crushing their little plane-boat thing! :) I can just about imagine them making it realistic, and I would laugh my head off in the cinema if it happened :D
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Since62 wrote: »
    How about they go completely contrarian and present an OLDER Bond ? I don't mean following up on D Craig's age. I mean Bond in his 70s or more. Get hold of George Lazenby and Timothy Dalton ! And not that Bond has been retired and gets called back to service. No. He's been working all along. He's not only good at surviving -- he's incredibly lucky. Lucky Number 7 ! Some traditional nemeses such as Blofeld could be around, just trying to outlast him. They're ready and they've BEEN ready to retire, but he hasn't and they won't until he's done by retirement or death ! OK that last part may be too far into spoofery, but I'm into this elder-Bond idea. Like an experienced fencer in the Olympics -- physical ability goes down with age, but wiles and cleverness and good defensive tactics carry the day. No creepy too-young ladies, though. The ladies who share intimate time with Bond should be mature. M, on the other hand, may be someone younger than Bond.

    If Bond is still chasing Blofeld in his 70s then maybe he's not the agent we thought he was!
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