Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,179
    mtm wrote: »
    I keep wondering about the Valhalla in NTTD, if they filmed action scenes with it and then decided to remove it from the final cut.

    No action I think, but they shot the scenes with Nomi driving it; they then replaced it with the DBS Superleggera. The shot of her picking Bond up as he walks along the road for example has a CG DBS there- the real shot was done with the Valhalla.
    As I remember there's a bit of a clue to that in the trailers- I think one of the trailers has the car without a numberplate which then got added in a later trailer or the film.

    The funny thing is with the Valhalla that the film took so long to get released that Aston actually changed the design of the car between the shooting and release of the film!

    Oh, wow! Very insightful.
  • Posts: 976
    A youngish Bond at the start of his career wouldn't be at a certain level of success to be affording/choosing an Aston as a personal car. We could see him drive Mi6 issued Astons and over the course of the era makes a purchase. Maybe that's why CraigBond won his first one.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited July 25 Posts: 1,667
    It's doesn't have to be a personal car. The DB5 in GF was a company car. And for a spy on hazard pay all the time, with meals covered on most trips, and trips most of the year, all he really pays is rent for a flat and a housekeeper. He could easily afford a cheaper Aston or Bentley even today likely.

    Brosnan Bond's cover was a banker, hence the nice car. A young single banker in London should be in something like an Aston today.

    And they have CPO programs now. Not saying Bond would or should ever buy used, but he could! A fun short story could even be Bond buying a nice Bentley, discovers is fitted with gadgets already, and then has to investigate the previous owner to see why the car is fitted as such in a fun little nod to Bond himself.
  • Posts: 976
    Gotta have some character development in there hah! Maybe he doesn't want a personal car yet as he might die on a mission. Have him gain some more expertise in the field before he becomes the seasoned spy owning a luxury sports car. Of course, driving a personal car might not even be in the story (just thinking about BrosnanDB5 and Ferrari).
  • Posts: 4,273
    I like the idea of the Aston being Bond's personal car, similar to the Bentley in the books. I even like how in SF it's implied that Bond's fitted it out with the gadgets himself.

    I don't know if it's something that needs a backstory as such like we got in CR. I think it's something of a given Bond likes his cars, and I don't think the audience would question how he could afford it (at least not when watching the film). Ultimately though it depends on whether the film needs to see Bond use his own personal car.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,574
    Yes I don't think it matters where Bond's personal fortune comes from: he just has the best suits, clothes and watches and that's the end of it. If there were a story to be told about where his money comes from then fine, but in a way I don't actually want attention drawn to it. He just lives a luxury lifestyle because he's James Bond and that's all the explanation I need.
    I suppose Skyfall does sort of establish that his family has a bit of money and that'll do for me.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,662
    mtm wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I read that Bentley didn't want John Gardner to put any gadgets in Bond's car (besides a phone).
    I didn't know that, how strange. As I remember Horowitz has one of Bond's Bentleys fitted with bulletproofing.
    QBranch wrote: »
    @DewiWynBond That is nice indeed. Reminds me of a Jag.

    I read that Bentley didn't want John Gardner to put any gadgets in Bond's car (besides a phone). I wonder if that rule would apply today, or they soften to the idea of optional extras after seeing the following partnership success with Aston.
    Can they do that? It's a book, there are no real cars involved.
    Don't take my word for it, it's something I read on the Bond wiki. I trust our resident Gardner expert @Dragonpol to confirm this!
    mtm wrote: »
    I keep wondering about the Valhalla in NTTD, if they filmed action scenes with it and then decided to remove it from the final cut.

    No action I think, but they shot the scenes with Nomi driving it; they then replaced it with the DBS Superleggera. The shot of her picking Bond up as he walks along the road for example has a CG DBS there- the real shot was done with the Valhalla.
    As I remember there's a bit of a clue to that in the trailers- I think one of the trailers has the car without a numberplate which then got added in a later trailer or the film.

    The funny thing is with the Valhalla that the film took so long to get released that Aston actually changed the design of the car between the shooting and release of the film!
    Yeah, didn't the updated Valhalla have more black around the bottom? I think that's the Hot Wheels model we got.

    The swapping one car for another on film is impressive. I remember seeing that demo video of the technology and it didn't look like CGI at all.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 25 Posts: 16,574
    I think they changed the design of the whole front end as I remember- the headlights got bigger and restyled.
    Here you go: there's a comparison between the two here:
    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9790685/Aston-Martin-unveils-700-000-217mph-hybrid-Valhalla-supercar.html

    Yes, the CG in NTTD is pretty amazing and not really noticeable at all. Although I do remember, when the trailer came out, the shot of the Land Rover flipping in the forest is something I said felt like there was CG about and everyone on here told me I was wrong, and reading that article I see they did indeed replace it with a CG car as it slides along the ground. Vindication at last! :D

    This video is kind of fascinating when you see how much work they did on the Norway chase:



    Here's a photo of it on set in Scotland for NTTD:
    45483577-9790685-image-a-9_1626355475105.jpg
  • Posts: 976
    I'm not debating the right cars or adequate salary. This is about portraying the right image for the character.

    Picture a young man as Bond sitting in his Aston Martin. The camera focuses on the side window before he launches the car forward. Compare this imagery to, say, Idris Elba in the same scene.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited July 25 Posts: 14,662
    @mtm Must admit I like the original Valhalla better. Looks rather snake-like from the front. And the new one - a frog.
  • Posts: 1,425
    I'm not debating the right cars or adequate salary. This is about portraying the right image for the character.

    Picture a young man as Bond sitting in his Aston Martin. The camera focuses on the side window before he launches the car forward. Compare this imagery to, say, Idris Elba in the same scene.

    It is quite likely that the next Bond will be a similar age to Connery in the first films
  • Posts: 976
    I'm not debating the right cars or adequate salary. This is about portraying the right image for the character.

    Picture a young man as Bond sitting in his Aston Martin. The camera focuses on the side window before he launches the car forward. Compare this imagery to, say, Idris Elba in the same scene.

    It is quite likely that the next Bond will be a similar age to Connery in the first films

    That's a lot to ask a person of that age. Without sounding too ageist, they don't have the gravitas. But, you never know who will come along.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    QBranch wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I read that Bentley didn't want John Gardner to put any gadgets in Bond's car (besides a phone).
    I didn't know that, how strange. As I remember Horowitz has one of Bond's Bentleys fitted with bulletproofing.
    QBranch wrote: »
    @DewiWynBond That is nice indeed. Reminds me of a Jag.

    I read that Bentley didn't want John Gardner to put any gadgets in Bond's car (besides a phone). I wonder if that rule would apply today, or they soften to the idea of optional extras after seeing the following partnership success with Aston.
    Can they do that? It's a book, there are no real cars involved.
    Don't take my word for it, it's something I read on the Bond wiki. I trust our resident Gardner expert @Dragonpol to confirm this!
    mtm wrote: »
    I keep wondering about the Valhalla in NTTD, if they filmed action scenes with it and then decided to remove it from the final cut.

    No action I think, but they shot the scenes with Nomi driving it; they then replaced it with the DBS Superleggera. The shot of her picking Bond up as he walks along the road for example has a CG DBS there- the real shot was done with the Valhalla.
    As I remember there's a bit of a clue to that in the trailers- I think one of the trailers has the car without a numberplate which then got added in a later trailer or the film.

    The funny thing is with the Valhalla that the film took so long to get released that Aston actually changed the design of the car between the shooting and release of the film!
    Yeah, didn't the updated Valhalla have more black around the bottom? I think that's the Hot Wheels model we got.

    The swapping one car for another on film is impressive. I remember seeing that demo video of the technology and it didn't look like CGI at all.

    Yes, I think John Gardner mentioned that in an interview around the time of Role of Honour (1984). It seems that Bentley were not as open as Saab to having their precious car modified or toyed around with. So Gardner and Glidrose had to go along with it to be able to use the Bentley Mulsanne Turbo in their Bond novels.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,662
    @Dragonpol Excellent. Personally, after the last three films, it would be refreshing to see Bond's car be neither an Aston nor gadgetized, and what better way than to go back to Bentley. I'd welcome a Saab for sure, however unlikely that is. Maybe Bond could steal one!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,357
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't think they'll hire Daniel Craig 2.0. If the guy is physically different that will change a lot.

    For example, I'm sure Theo James can play a gritty Bond, but the vibes would be completely different.

    Agreed. I don’t think you can have a Craig 2.0 anyway. Just like you can’t have a Connery or Moore 2.0.

    Connery 2.0 is basically Craig, and Moore 2.0 is Brosnan.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,249
    I'm not debating the right cars or adequate salary. This is about portraying the right image for the character.

    Picture a young man as Bond sitting in his Aston Martin. The camera focuses on the side window before he launches the car forward. Compare this imagery to, say, Idris Elba in the same scene.

    It is quite likely that the next Bond will be a similar age to Connery in the first films

    That's a lot to ask a person of that age. Without sounding too ageist, they don't have the gravitas. But, you never know who will come along.

    Yeah, I can see that. 40 is the new 30 and all that. But, who knows, some young man out there might display the maturity needed.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,122
    echo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't think they'll hire Daniel Craig 2.0. If the guy is physically different that will change a lot.

    For example, I'm sure Theo James can play a gritty Bond, but the vibes would be completely different.

    Agreed. I don’t think you can have a Craig 2.0 anyway. Just like you can’t have a Connery or Moore 2.0.

    Connery 2.0 is basically Craig, and Moore 2.0 is Brosnan.

    I'd say Brosnan's more of a Connaltoore shake.
  • Posts: 976
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm not debating the right cars or adequate salary. This is about portraying the right image for the character.

    Picture a young man as Bond sitting in his Aston Martin. The camera focuses on the side window before he launches the car forward. Compare this imagery to, say, Idris Elba in the same scene.

    It is quite likely that the next Bond will be a similar age to Connery in the first films

    That's a lot to ask a person of that age. Without sounding too ageist, they don't have the gravitas. But, you never know who will come along.

    Yeah, I can see that. 40 is the new 30 and all that. But, who knows, some young man out there might display the maturity needed.

    They might have to try to force a round peg into a square hole. Maturity isn't as common as it was in the past.
  • Posts: 2,022
    Bond is a suit. You either look at home in it and wear it well, or you don't. Some actors own it and others just rent it. Being Bond and pretending to be Bond are quite different.
  • Posts: 4,273
    Even some of the Bond actors had to age into the part. I don’t think Dalton or Brosnan could have played Bond quite as well in their late 20s/early 30s. Not even sure how well Moore would have done if he’d been only 30. Connery and Lazenby seemed older than they actually were (although you can argue that Lazenby’s youth/inexperience wasn’t to his benefit).

    It depends on the actor. I can imagine some potentials as young as 28 being able to play a convincing Bond though.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,163
    I’d actually wouldn’t mind if we got an actor in their late 20’s.
    A real, young Bond.
    CR showed us with Bond in his first mission, and Craig was great. But it could be fun to see a Bond at a younger age. Some life experience but not fully mature.
    Over the course of said actors tenure they could literally mature into the role.
    We’ve always seen the experienced James Bond. Maybe the new era could show us a Bond who isn’t so mature.
    Maybe
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 699
    mtm wrote: »
    I think they changed the design of the whole front end as I remember- the headlights got bigger and restyled.
    Here you go: there's a comparison between the two here:
    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9790685/Aston-Martin-unveils-700-000-217mph-hybrid-Valhalla-supercar.html

    Yes, the CG in NTTD is pretty amazing and not really noticeable at all. Although I do remember, when the trailer came out, the shot of the Land Rover flipping in the forest is something I said felt like there was CG about and everyone on here told me I was wrong, and reading that article I see they did indeed replace it with a CG car as it slides along the ground. Vindication at last! :D

    This video is kind of fascinating when you see how much work they did on the Norway chase:



    Here's a photo of it on set in Scotland for NTTD:
    45483577-9790685-image-a-9_1626355475105.jpg

    I did notice quite a bit of the CGI in NTTD and I must admit it did bother me. The ice lake in the PTS being a good example. I just got the sense there'd been a lot of digital enhancements, and coupled with the incredibly saturated colour grading, it gave the film a bit of an unreal feeling that I haven't really felt with any other Bond film apart from DAD.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,574
    Yeah, that's true, the ice lake does feel slightly in a magical reality.
  • Posts: 566
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, that's true, the ice lake does feel slightly in a magical reality.

    That's the intent, yeah. Everything with the Norway house is to be of another world. Something of a nightmare (Safin) or dream (Bond) for Madeleine.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited July 27 Posts: 699
    BMB007 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, that's true, the ice lake does feel slightly in a magical reality.

    That's the intent, yeah. Everything with the Norway house is to be of another world. Something of a nightmare (Safin) or dream (Bond) for Madeleine.

    Well that's not the only example of what I'm talking about. The sinking trawler, the glider, and a lot of the exteriors of Safin's island have that same unreal feel to me. The final shot of Bond standing on top of the base I was particularly disappointed by. And like I said, I suspect a lot of digital enhancements were made in post production.
  • edited July 27 Posts: 566
    BMB007 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, that's true, the ice lake does feel slightly in a magical reality.

    That's the intent, yeah. Everything with the Norway house is to be of another world. Something of a nightmare (Safin) or dream (Bond) for Madeleine.

    Well that's not the only example of what I'm talking about. The sinking trawler, the glider, and a lot of the exteriors of Safin's island have that same unreal feel to me. The final shot of Bond standing on top of the base I was particularly disappointed by. And like I said, I suspect a lot of digital enhancements were made in post production.

    Yeah, there was extensive digital effect works in the film? Like every tentpole (every film?) made in the last ~25 years? Nothing to suspect about it. The team was nominated for an Academy Award for their work in the film.

    Nothing is inherently better or worse with the tools used today, just like nothing was inherently better or worse with the tools available decades ago.

    Rear projection was an amazing technology for its time. A few filmmakers have found clever use for it in the era of green/blue screen ("Eyes Wide Shut" comes to mind), but by and large it has been retired for modern tools — just as Volume/LED Projection/StageCraft is pushing on greenscreen work.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited July 27 Posts: 699
    BMB007 wrote: »
    BMB007 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, that's true, the ice lake does feel slightly in a magical reality.

    That's the intent, yeah. Everything with the Norway house is to be of another world. Something of a nightmare (Safin) or dream (Bond) for Madeleine.

    Well that's not the only example of what I'm talking about. The sinking trawler, the glider, and a lot of the exteriors of Safin's island have that same unreal feel to me. The final shot of Bond standing on top of the base I was particularly disappointed by. And like I said, I suspect a lot of digital enhancements were made in post production.

    Yeah, there was extensive digital effect works in the film? Like every tentpole (every film?) made in the last ~25 years? Nothing to suspect about it. The team was nominated for an Academy Award for their work in the film.

    Nothing is inherently better or worse with the tools used today, just like nothing was inherently better or worse with the tools available decades ago.

    Rear projection was an amazing technology for its time. A few filmmakers have found clever use for it in the era of green/blue screen ("Eyes Wide Shut" comes to mind), but by and large it has been retired for modern tools — just as Volume/LED Projection/StageCraft is pushing on greenscreen work.

    I'm well aware CGI is nothing new to Bond, or blockbuster cinema in general. Nor am I arguing that technology and techniques are worse than what they used to be, or that digital effects have no place in the Bond series. I just found it particularly noticeable in ways I haven't since DAD, and it affected by immersion in the world of the film. A couple of times it looked like almost everything on screen was made in a computer.
  • Brosnan escaping the tsunami was one of his finest acting as Bond.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited July 27 Posts: 2,179
    Arnold's score makes the scene better. Plus, apart from the bad CGI, Tamahori shoots the scene well. Brosnan's acting is good. But at the end of the day, the poor CGI really sticks out....especially in wider shots. But still, Arnold is the most reason that scene is bearable. If the wrong composer scored that scene, it would have been worse.
  • Posts: 580
    A couple of weeks ago I had a nightmare in which it was announced that David Arnold would score Bond 26. Yikes.
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