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Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 22 Posts: 8,409
    And we agree that stylistically B25 and SP were a step in the right direction, closer to more traditional bondian territory. Rami Malek is a lot more of the typical cartoonish bond villain, who seems to only exist in the context of being evil. Ana de armas is the closest to a capable, sassy bond girl we've seen in a while, and Obruchev resembles more of the comedic relief character of old. But, at least I find, that like how DAD squanders the goodwill of a meaty, interesting premise (bond being captured) by running back to the safety of well worn Brosnan tropes such as a reliance on technology, cheesy one liners and special effects, so does B25 squander its efforts to resurrect the traditional Bond formula by ultimately falling into the familiar Craig pattern of relying on character angst and interpersonal drama to create weight and stakes for the story. Everything to do with Bond fussing over his 00 number, finding out he has a family, quarrelling with M and in the end sacrificing himself does nothing to compliment that breezier, more fantastical feel. These two aren't pulling in the same direction, but rather taking turns. I think it could well be that the true breakthrough comes when they craft a story where the complexity of the characters comes through in normal time, and fits completely naturally with the tone and feel they're going for on the whole, and isn't merely artifical devices such as faces burnt out of old photos, or colleges gunning for bonds personal and very special designation number.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 22 Posts: 4,174
    This is just me, but I hope there’ll be more wry humour in Bond 26 than absurd goofiness. SF I think got it completely right. We had those little moments like the ‘health and safety check’ line after Bond jumps onto the tube, the old man saying ‘he’s keen to get home’ etc. It’s Bondian, but feels completely in universe, and shows the character’s humour. They also feel well timed, providing just enough relief from the tension but not undercutting anything. An issue I (and many others) have with SP is it feels like the humour undercuts the tension, and it’s something I really feel during the Italy car chase. NTTD has a much better balance, but I’m not a terribly big fan of the zaniness of even the Cuba sequence (although it’s fun).

    Going back to the idea of heightened reality/the stylisation of more recent films we’ve discussed, The Batman does a good job at crafting an impressionistic Gotham, but unlike Burton’s films it’s not cartoonish or zany, neither is the humour. It fits into something close to a tangible, real world, albeit one where it’s always raining, there’s elaborate modern Gothic architecture, and everything is noir-like and dark. There are moments of humour which subvert expectations to an extent, but again it’s not silly as such (ie. Batman trying to fly but knocking himself against the bridge/having to awkwardly limp away. Generally in Batman films Batman actually manages to make a graceful exit). Tongue in cheek perhaps but not goofy. You get those flashes of nonsense such as Batman’s armour withstanding machine gun bullets as he walks through the flashing hall (such a cool scene) but even that’s plausible within the context of the film, despite not strictly being ‘realistic’. Again, Riddler and Bruce are grounded and modernised. That’s more in line with the classic Bond films, where even its impossibilities are played straight. It’s heightened reality but it ultimately feels real. I think it’s very possible to apply some of NTTD’s (and indeed SF and SP’s) more impressionistic filmmaking and shifts in tone into something broadly akin to that.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited August 22 Posts: 2,069
    I sincerely hope NTTD would be the last Bond film EON tries to force comedy into. Comedy worked in previous Bond films, as they felt subtle and natural...but with NTTD, majority of the jokes didn't land.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    I sincerely hope NTTD would be the last Bond film EON tries to force comedy into. Comedy worked in previous Bond films, as they felt subtle and natural...but with NTTD, majority of the jokes didn't land.

    Same. I felt we were sliding back to the cringe one-liners.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 556
    I don't know why some members demand an essay from a Gen Zer as to what their whole generation wants. I'm more of a millenial, but I think they're probably going to go in a more light-hearted direction, not necessarily weird like Kingsman, but generally a tone which is more accessible to a wider audience. I think a tone similar to Top Gun Maverick, The Hobbit, etc.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 22 Posts: 4,174
    Daltonforyou wrote: »
    I don't know why some members demand an essay from a Gen Zer as to what their whole generation wants. I'm more of a millenial, but I think they're probably going to go in a more light-hearted direction, not necessarily weird like Kingsman, but generally a tone which is more accessible to a wider audience. I think a tone similar to Top Gun Maverick, The Hobbit, etc.

    To be fair, I’m not sure if anyone’s demanding it as much as me (and others) writing said essays on this topic 😂 But that’s just me, I’m quite wordy, and other people seem interested in this/are making cool points.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    "Top Gun meets The Hobbit" is the Bond pitch I've been waiting for. That's a film I'd have to see.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,632
    Where might Bond go ? Literally ? That is, which location ?
    Doha
    As reported in an article on website : Reel re: financing for a Broccoli/Craig production of Othello. August 19, 2024 article
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited August 22 Posts: 3,276
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    And we agree that stylistically B25 and SP were a step in the right direction, closer to more traditional bondian territory.
    SP is the most intensely graded Bond movie. A lot of scenes looked downright awful, like the Mexico and Morocco scenes with its yellow tint, where they sucked all that is vibrant about those places out in post production. It's also too dark. SF doesn't have as many exciting places, but it was lensed more beautifully and looked more ARRI natural. There's a huge difference between the two.
    George_Kaplan wrote: »
    I am from the 'targeted demographic' and I can't think of anything unique about Generation Z that's relevant to Bond.
    That's why they need to bring back cool and ludicrous tech-gadgets, like from the Moore-era. That would certainly appeal to them. Imagine a portable telephone than can take photos?... oh, no, wait! Maybe Bond carrying a next-level smartphone with a lie-detector app programmed by Q or a scanner called "Tik Tok" that can located explosive devices. Maybe a parachute with the Pride flag, instead of the British, inside a pen or something.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,592
    On the bright side, I just discovered yesterday the book "Some Kind of Hero," and haven't been able to put it down. There's always something to tide us over. Easily the most in depth Bond book.
  • BurgessBurgess
    Posts: 380
    007HallY wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    So Bond needs to appeal to a younger generation, but no one is able to articulate any specifics. We don't know, but the brains at EON will have it figured out because they always do. I would like to read something from someone on this site who fits that targeted demographic to explain what's unique about their generation that should be reflected in the next Bond film to entice them to the cinema. It has surely got to be more than Bond using the most recent technology or a theme song by the artist of the moment.

    The film Bond has always a man of his times. Connery used pay phones. Dalton used a portable phone the size of bread box, and Craig used a smartphone. If using current devices is what makes Bond modern, then I have been modern my entire life.

    If it's more than that, then someone ought to be able say this is what makes Bond modern and appealing to the current and coming generations.

    Or will it simply be a much younger actor playing Bond? And we'll call it good.

    This is probably getting more into something a bit more philosophical (if you can call it that), but it’s usually said the major difference between Millennials and Gen Z is that the former were born into a world where there was more a sense of political/social optimism in the late 80s/90s, only for the post 9/11 and post 2008 years to shatter that. Gen Z were basically born into the latter eras and that’s the world they grew up/are growing up in.

    If you apply that to some of the films we’ve been talking about the idea’s there. The Batman, for example, puts us in the centre of a dark, grimy version of Gotham where crime and evil is all around, and even our hero isn’t able to be truly virtuous within this world (to the point where he even indirectly influences some of these villains around him). The film of course is about him learning to truly inspire hope rather than follow vengeance. Heck, the idea of being born into a strange world where that’s all you know and ultimately changing it is even there in Barbie.

    Bond 26 can channel that too. Craig’s Bond was a man who found himself in a more morally grey, post 9/11 world, but he actively went out of his way to do the right thing - he went against orders, disobeyed M etc. He was a blunt instrument in his methodology, but not a loyal foot soldier. The next Bond might be younger, but he may be more that loyal blunt instrument we know Bond to be traditionally, albeit in a certain context. He might be a man who has to carry out dirty jobs, assassinate people for King and Country etc. We might get more a sense of MI6’s moral greyness (perhaps not M’s directly, but those around him/in tandem with the mission Bond is sent on). Much like The Batman we might get a bit of optimism with Bond ultimately making a choice and doing something for a higher good by the end (ie. saving the day), even if it means choosing to go against an order or effectively do what Craig’s Bond was more willing to do.

    You’d have to find the right story to express those ideas. To me it sounds a bit like TLD with Bond being enlisted by MI6 to carry out two assassinations, the latter of which seems highly questionable/tenuous insofar as it involves killing a well known official (and of course it unknowingly makes Bond a pawn in the villain’s plan). It’s of course Bond deciding not to kill Kara or Pushkin and take matters into his own hands which saves the day. So those ideas aren’t without precedent in Bond. Anyway, that’s a broad but timeless way you can make a Bond story that’s relevant. It’s more thematic than specific though and has nothing to do with tone, who to cast, or even how to do this.

    I wonder if we’re overcomplicating this question. There’s the issue of the next film’s thematic direction but, on a broader level, the franchise needs to expand how and where it markets to young people. To me, Bond’s direct competition isn’t other espionage franchises but comic book movies.

    That’s not to say that Bond should copy the story beats or aesthetics of any particular comic book property, but there’s something to be learned about how comic book characters are marketed to fans and the general public. The Bond franchise needs video games. The Bond franchise needs collectible (and affordable) figures and statues. The Bond franchise needs easily obtainable t-shirts and gym wear. The Bond franchise needs to expand its reach into consumer products at stores like Macy’s and Target.

    The Bond franchise needs a consistent market presence beyond a theatrical release. I think EON knows this on some level which is why we got a Bond-themed reality competition show. EON needs to balance the high-end nature of the brand with consistent mass marketing to the average person.

    If the next Bond movie is good, people will watch. Success begets success. But the brand needs a wider, cost conscious reach. I think, in part, this means uncoupling the brand from any particular actor or face. Obviously, each new movie needs to push the actor playing Bond but, like Batman, there needs to be a focus on the IP as a brand instead of simply marketing for a specific film or a particular version of Bond.







  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited August 22 Posts: 9,509
    @burgess, I'm really enjoying your posts. Very thoughtful and intuitive. Not sure what line of work you're in, but you seem to have a great understanding of the film industry generally, its marketing, and insightful ideas on Bond in particular.

    All this guessing what Gen-whatever are looking for misses the point. Make relevant and contemporary films, but interest the younger generation in the brand, outside of the films, via video games, comics, collectibles.... As you rightly state: success begets success.

    Very reasonable and intelligent, and, I think, a path that EoN will similarly take (RTAM and an upcoming video game being the start...).

    Really great and insightful post. Thanks for droppong such intelligent and realistic concepts, thoughts and ideas. Damn nice to read.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 22 Posts: 4,174
    Burgess wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    So Bond needs to appeal to a younger generation, but no one is able to articulate any specifics. We don't know, but the brains at EON will have it figured out because they always do. I would like to read something from someone on this site who fits that targeted demographic to explain what's unique about their generation that should be reflected in the next Bond film to entice them to the cinema. It has surely got to be more than Bond using the most recent technology or a theme song by the artist of the moment.

    The film Bond has always a man of his times. Connery used pay phones. Dalton used a portable phone the size of bread box, and Craig used a smartphone. If using current devices is what makes Bond modern, then I have been modern my entire life.

    If it's more than that, then someone ought to be able say this is what makes Bond modern and appealing to the current and coming generations.

    Or will it simply be a much younger actor playing Bond? And we'll call it good.

    This is probably getting more into something a bit more philosophical (if you can call it that), but it’s usually said the major difference between Millennials and Gen Z is that the former were born into a world where there was more a sense of political/social optimism in the late 80s/90s, only for the post 9/11 and post 2008 years to shatter that. Gen Z were basically born into the latter eras and that’s the world they grew up/are growing up in.

    If you apply that to some of the films we’ve been talking about the idea’s there. The Batman, for example, puts us in the centre of a dark, grimy version of Gotham where crime and evil is all around, and even our hero isn’t able to be truly virtuous within this world (to the point where he even indirectly influences some of these villains around him). The film of course is about him learning to truly inspire hope rather than follow vengeance. Heck, the idea of being born into a strange world where that’s all you know and ultimately changing it is even there in Barbie.

    Bond 26 can channel that too. Craig’s Bond was a man who found himself in a more morally grey, post 9/11 world, but he actively went out of his way to do the right thing - he went against orders, disobeyed M etc. He was a blunt instrument in his methodology, but not a loyal foot soldier. The next Bond might be younger, but he may be more that loyal blunt instrument we know Bond to be traditionally, albeit in a certain context. He might be a man who has to carry out dirty jobs, assassinate people for King and Country etc. We might get more a sense of MI6’s moral greyness (perhaps not M’s directly, but those around him/in tandem with the mission Bond is sent on). Much like The Batman we might get a bit of optimism with Bond ultimately making a choice and doing something for a higher good by the end (ie. saving the day), even if it means choosing to go against an order or effectively do what Craig’s Bond was more willing to do.

    You’d have to find the right story to express those ideas. To me it sounds a bit like TLD with Bond being enlisted by MI6 to carry out two assassinations, the latter of which seems highly questionable/tenuous insofar as it involves killing a well known official (and of course it unknowingly makes Bond a pawn in the villain’s plan). It’s of course Bond deciding not to kill Kara or Pushkin and take matters into his own hands which saves the day. So those ideas aren’t without precedent in Bond. Anyway, that’s a broad but timeless way you can make a Bond story that’s relevant. It’s more thematic than specific though and has nothing to do with tone, who to cast, or even how to do this.

    I wonder if we’re overcomplicating this question. There’s the issue of the next film’s thematic direction but, on a broader level, the franchise needs to expand how and where it markets to young people. To me, Bond’s direct competition isn’t other espionage franchises but comic book movies.

    That’s not to say that Bond should copy the story beats or aesthetics of any particular comic book property, but there’s something to be learned about how comic book characters are marketed to fans and the general public. The Bond franchise needs video games. The Bond franchise needs collectible (and affordable) figures and statues. The Bond franchise needs easily obtainable t-shirts and gym wear. The Bond franchise needs to expand its reach into consumer products at stores like Macy’s and Target.

    The Bond franchise needs a consistent market presence beyond a theatrical release. I think EON knows this on some level which is why we got a Bond-themed reality competition show. EON needs to balance the high-end nature of the brand with consistent mass marketing to the average person.

    If the next Bond movie is good, people will watch. Success begets success. But the brand needs a wider, cost conscious reach. I think, in part, this means uncoupling the brand from any particular actor or face. Obviously, each new movie needs to push the actor playing Bond but, like Batman, there needs to be a focus on the IP as a brand instead of simply marketing for a specific film or a particular version of Bond.







    Oh yeah, completely agree. Cool ideas and as said likely not far off what they’ll do. It was more a response to what specific film ideas can be used for a relevant Bond movie (and honestly, this is one amongst hundreds of routes they could go in). Different but not unrelated things in that sense - what type of film to make and how to market it and in turn the franchise.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    So Bond needs to appeal to a younger generation, but no one is able to articulate any specifics. We don't know, but the brains at EON will have it figured out because they always do. I would like to read something from someone on this site who fits that targeted demographic to explain what's unique about their generation that should be reflected in the next Bond film to entice them to the cinema. It has surely got to be more than Bond using the most recent technology or a theme song by the artist of the moment.

    The film Bond has always a man of his times. Connery used pay phones. Dalton used a portable phone the size of bread box, and Craig used a smartphone. If using current devices is what makes Bond modern, then I have been modern my entire life.

    If it's more than that, then someone ought to be able say this is what makes Bond modern and appealing to the current and coming generations.

    Or will it simply be a much younger actor playing Bond? And we'll call it good.

    This is probably getting more into something a bit more philosophical (if you can call it that), but it’s usually said the major difference between Millennials and Gen Z is that the former were born into a world where there was more a sense of political/social optimism in the late 80s/90s, only for the post 9/11 and post 2008 years to shatter that. Gen Z were basically born into the latter eras and that’s the world they grew up/are growing up in.

    If you apply that to some of the films we’ve been talking about the idea’s there. The Batman, for example, puts us in the centre of a dark, grimy version of Gotham where crime and evil is all around, and even our hero isn’t able to be truly virtuous within this world (to the point where he even indirectly influences some of these villains around him). The film of course is about him learning to truly inspire hope rather than follow vengeance. Heck, the idea of being born into a strange world where that’s all you know and ultimately changing it is even there in Barbie.

    Bond 26 can channel that too. Craig’s Bond was a man who found himself in a more morally grey, post 9/11 world, but he actively went out of his way to do the right thing - he went against orders, disobeyed M etc. He was a blunt instrument in his methodology, but not a loyal foot soldier. The next Bond might be younger, but he may be more that loyal blunt instrument we know Bond to be traditionally, albeit in a certain context. He might be a man who has to carry out dirty jobs, assassinate people for King and Country etc. We might get more a sense of MI6’s moral greyness (perhaps not M’s directly, but those around him/in tandem with the mission Bond is sent on). Much like The Batman we might get a bit of optimism with Bond ultimately making a choice and doing something for a higher good by the end (ie. saving the day), even if it means choosing to go against an order or effectively do what Craig’s Bond was more willing to do.

    You’d have to find the right story to express those ideas. To me it sounds a bit like TLD with Bond being enlisted by MI6 to carry out two assassinations, the latter of which seems highly questionable/tenuous insofar as it involves killing a well known official (and of course it unknowingly makes Bond a pawn in the villain’s plan). It’s of course Bond deciding not to kill Kara or Pushkin and take matters into his own hands which saves the day. So those ideas aren’t without precedent in Bond. Anyway, that’s a broad but timeless way you can make a Bond story that’s relevant. It’s more thematic than specific though and has nothing to do with tone, who to cast, or even how to do this.

    I wonder if we’re overcomplicating this question. There’s the issue of the next film’s thematic direction but, on a broader level, the franchise needs to expand how and where it markets to young people. To me, Bond’s direct competition isn’t other espionage franchises but comic book movies.

    That’s not to say that Bond should copy the story beats or aesthetics of any particular comic book property, but there’s something to be learned about how comic book characters are marketed to fans and the general public. The Bond franchise needs video games. The Bond franchise needs collectible (and affordable) figures and statues. The Bond franchise needs easily obtainable t-shirts and gym wear. The Bond franchise needs to expand its reach into consumer products at stores like Macy’s and Target.

    The Bond franchise needs a consistent market presence beyond a theatrical release. I think EON knows this on some level which is why we got a Bond-themed reality competition show. EON needs to balance the high-end nature of the brand with consistent mass marketing to the average person.

    If the next Bond movie is good, people will watch. Success begets success. But the brand needs a wider, cost conscious reach. I think, in part, this means uncoupling the brand from any particular actor or face. Obviously, each new movie needs to push the actor playing Bond but, like Batman, there needs to be a focus on the IP as a brand instead of simply marketing for a specific film or a particular version of Bond.







    Oh yeah, completely agree. It was more a response to what specific film ideas can be used for a relevant Bond movie (and honestly, this is one amongst hundreds of routes they could go in). Different but not unrelated things in that sense - what type of film to make and how to market it and in turn the franchise.

    If certain rumours are even half true, and that they're waiting for a specific director, and if things truly won't start heating up until 2026, for a 2027 release (and thinking Othello is being prepped right now for a 2025 shoot (and this other director is on the same schedule (ish), prepping his film for a 2025 shoot), the timeline that's rumoured holds), they have time to get the script right. Chasing after a certain demographic with a single film makes zero sense. Bringing in new audiences, as they did with CR, and putting more butts in seats, is the general idea. And that will naturally and organically take place when a famous brand, like James Bond, is recasting for the first time in twenty years.

    This will kind of take care of itself in this regard, and their job is to deliver to the curious.

    But spiking the interest of a particular demo before then will come into play outside of a single film. And I like what both you and Burgess are saying, in particular Burgess, discussing the expansion of the IP, and getting it into the public's consciousness outside of marketing for a single film (games, comics, clothing, watches, alcohol; targetting a particular demographic with inexpensive merchandise and collectibles)....
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,174
    peter wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    So Bond needs to appeal to a younger generation, but no one is able to articulate any specifics. We don't know, but the brains at EON will have it figured out because they always do. I would like to read something from someone on this site who fits that targeted demographic to explain what's unique about their generation that should be reflected in the next Bond film to entice them to the cinema. It has surely got to be more than Bond using the most recent technology or a theme song by the artist of the moment.

    The film Bond has always a man of his times. Connery used pay phones. Dalton used a portable phone the size of bread box, and Craig used a smartphone. If using current devices is what makes Bond modern, then I have been modern my entire life.

    If it's more than that, then someone ought to be able say this is what makes Bond modern and appealing to the current and coming generations.

    Or will it simply be a much younger actor playing Bond? And we'll call it good.

    This is probably getting more into something a bit more philosophical (if you can call it that), but it’s usually said the major difference between Millennials and Gen Z is that the former were born into a world where there was more a sense of political/social optimism in the late 80s/90s, only for the post 9/11 and post 2008 years to shatter that. Gen Z were basically born into the latter eras and that’s the world they grew up/are growing up in.

    If you apply that to some of the films we’ve been talking about the idea’s there. The Batman, for example, puts us in the centre of a dark, grimy version of Gotham where crime and evil is all around, and even our hero isn’t able to be truly virtuous within this world (to the point where he even indirectly influences some of these villains around him). The film of course is about him learning to truly inspire hope rather than follow vengeance. Heck, the idea of being born into a strange world where that’s all you know and ultimately changing it is even there in Barbie.

    Bond 26 can channel that too. Craig’s Bond was a man who found himself in a more morally grey, post 9/11 world, but he actively went out of his way to do the right thing - he went against orders, disobeyed M etc. He was a blunt instrument in his methodology, but not a loyal foot soldier. The next Bond might be younger, but he may be more that loyal blunt instrument we know Bond to be traditionally, albeit in a certain context. He might be a man who has to carry out dirty jobs, assassinate people for King and Country etc. We might get more a sense of MI6’s moral greyness (perhaps not M’s directly, but those around him/in tandem with the mission Bond is sent on). Much like The Batman we might get a bit of optimism with Bond ultimately making a choice and doing something for a higher good by the end (ie. saving the day), even if it means choosing to go against an order or effectively do what Craig’s Bond was more willing to do.

    You’d have to find the right story to express those ideas. To me it sounds a bit like TLD with Bond being enlisted by MI6 to carry out two assassinations, the latter of which seems highly questionable/tenuous insofar as it involves killing a well known official (and of course it unknowingly makes Bond a pawn in the villain’s plan). It’s of course Bond deciding not to kill Kara or Pushkin and take matters into his own hands which saves the day. So those ideas aren’t without precedent in Bond. Anyway, that’s a broad but timeless way you can make a Bond story that’s relevant. It’s more thematic than specific though and has nothing to do with tone, who to cast, or even how to do this.

    I wonder if we’re overcomplicating this question. There’s the issue of the next film’s thematic direction but, on a broader level, the franchise needs to expand how and where it markets to young people. To me, Bond’s direct competition isn’t other espionage franchises but comic book movies.

    That’s not to say that Bond should copy the story beats or aesthetics of any particular comic book property, but there’s something to be learned about how comic book characters are marketed to fans and the general public. The Bond franchise needs video games. The Bond franchise needs collectible (and affordable) figures and statues. The Bond franchise needs easily obtainable t-shirts and gym wear. The Bond franchise needs to expand its reach into consumer products at stores like Macy’s and Target.

    The Bond franchise needs a consistent market presence beyond a theatrical release. I think EON knows this on some level which is why we got a Bond-themed reality competition show. EON needs to balance the high-end nature of the brand with consistent mass marketing to the average person.

    If the next Bond movie is good, people will watch. Success begets success. But the brand needs a wider, cost conscious reach. I think, in part, this means uncoupling the brand from any particular actor or face. Obviously, each new movie needs to push the actor playing Bond but, like Batman, there needs to be a focus on the IP as a brand instead of simply marketing for a specific film or a particular version of Bond.







    Oh yeah, completely agree. It was more a response to what specific film ideas can be used for a relevant Bond movie (and honestly, this is one amongst hundreds of routes they could go in). Different but not unrelated things in that sense - what type of film to make and how to market it and in turn the franchise.

    If certain rumours are even half true, and that they're waiting for a specific director, and if things truly won't start heating up until 2026, for a 2027 release (and thinking Othello is being prepped right now for a 2025 shoot (and this other director is on the same schedule (ish), prepping his film for a 2025 shoot), the timeline that's rumoured holds), they have time to get the script right. Chasing after a certain demographic with a single film makes zero sense. Bringing in new audiences, as they did with CR, and putting more butts in seats, is the general idea. And that will naturally and organically take place when a famous brand, like James Bond, is recasting for the first time in twenty years.

    This will kind of take care of itself in this regard, and their job is to deliver to the curious.

    But spiking the interest of a particular demo before then will come into play outside of a single film. And I like what both you and Burgess are saying, in particular Burgess, discussing the expansion of the IP, and getting it into the public's consciousness outside of marketing for a single film (games, comics, clothing, watches, alcohol; targetting a particular demographic with inexpensive merchandise and collectibles)....

    Oh yeah, for sure. Again, these are two separate but not unrelated parts of this process.

    It’s like I said a page or so back, a ‘relevant’ film isn’t necessarily one aimed at the youngest viewing audience (or often any very specific demographic after a point - Bond I suspect crafts their stories through an organic process of what they feel they need to explore, the specific traits of the franchise, what other films are doing to some extent, and overall just finding out creatively where their gap is). You can’t capture the zeitgeist every time, but you can make a modern Bond movie.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited August 22 Posts: 9,509
    Once again, very nicely said @007HallY … I honestly couldn’t wrap my brain around the other stuff like football matches and getting whatever-generations out through a general “this” or “that”. It was making my poor little brain smash into the walls of my skull again, making me concussed for the umpteenth time.

    There is the goal of course of getting butts in seats. New butts in seats. And yes, with something like horror films, you’re going after a particular demo, but with Bond it already has wide appeal across the sexes and different generations, and the name is so embedded into us, that just by recasting for the first time in twenty years will certainly have many ears pricked.

    And it’s up to the writers and the director and the new actor to deliver this. Make the film “in today”, and ppl will follow.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 22 Posts: 4,174
    peter wrote: »
    Once again, very nicely said @007HallY … I honestly couldn’t wrap my brain around the other stuff like football matches and getting whatever-generations out through a general “this” or “that”. It was making my poor little brain smash into the walls of my skull again, making me concussed for the umpteenth time.

    There is the goal of course of getting butts in seats. New butts in seats. And yes, with something like horror films, you’re going after a particular demo, but with Bond it already has wide appeal across the sexes and different generations, and the name is so embedded into us, that just by recasting for the first time in twenty years will certainly have many ears pricked.

    And it’s up to the writers and the director and the new actor to deliver this. Make the film “in today”, and ppl will follow.

    Absolutely. Even with my long winded and vague ‘story’ idea the only way I can describe it is these ideas interest me in tandem with Bond in the modern world (ie. Him working for an MI6 which sometimes doesn’t send him on missions for that ‘greater good’, him having to be a blunt instrument for this version of MI6, and in turn having to make a decision outside of their command to save the day). It’s probably because I like The Batman and find stuff in it, and if (in the highly unlikely scenario) I got to write a bit of Bond 26 I’d try to craft a story with that in mind because it’s what resonates with me.

    EON might not think the same and may do something different! Or they might go a similar route. But it’ll be with that organic process - thinking of previous Bond movies, Fleming, other films around them etc. As I said before and you said just now, just make a modern Bond movie, cast the best actor possible, and have a clear subsequent marketing strategy in mind. No tricks (of course if an opportunity akin to the Olympic ceremony comes around they’ll take it! But otherwise it comes down to that).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @007HallY i agree with everything you said (and I do like your concepts).
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 22 Posts: 4,174
    peter wrote: »
    @007HallY i agree with everything you said (and I do like your concepts).

    Appreciate it (it’s very much the sort of thing you and indeed any producer would look at and say ‘it’s not a film yet’ and they’d be right without a proper story/plot/outline!)

    It’ll be very interesting seeing what a relevant/modern Bond story will become when it comes to this next film. I suspect to some extent we’ll all be a bit surprised.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @007HallY i agree with everything you said (and I do like your concepts).

    Appreciate it (it’s very much the sort of thing you and indeed any producer would look at and say ‘it’s not a film yet’ and they’d be right without a proper story/plot/outline!)

    It’ll be very interesting seeing what a relevant/modern Bond story will become when it comes to this next film. I suspect to some extent we’ll all be a bit surprised.

    Absolutely! I mean there are people on here who know they can make a better Bond picture than the EoN team, and all of the top notch talent that they bring on board, but I’m firmly in the camp they actually know what they’re doing, and the only thing I’d guarantee is the next film will likely be another global hit. And I will likely marvel that they did it again. After sixty plus years this character keeps on, not just existing, but competing with the latest box office offerings.

    There’s no equation for this. There really isn’t. It’s a mixture of owning a great character, intuition, hiring the right people, the best people in their craft, marketing and distribution. But how they make this “relic of the Cold War” relevant over and over and over is puzzling, especially in a world where attention spans may be on the decline.

    The Craig Era had a tremendous emotional impact on my life. I adore NTTD, in spite of some warts, but I am excited for the new era, and I have no doubt they will deliver “something similar/something new” as they always seem to be able to do. That’s their gift.

  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,860
    When talking synergy through merchandising and product spin offs Bond has had ample time over the years to make inroads but it has not stuck the landing. At Comic Con this year I only saw two or three collectable items at Factory Ent. and that was it. No cosplay, no sideshow figures, no Funko Pop, no coverage of the Road To Millions and no advanced buzz for the video game. Even Indy had more of a presence.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,174
    peter wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @007HallY i agree with everything you said (and I do like your concepts).

    Appreciate it (it’s very much the sort of thing you and indeed any producer would look at and say ‘it’s not a film yet’ and they’d be right without a proper story/plot/outline!)

    It’ll be very interesting seeing what a relevant/modern Bond story will become when it comes to this next film. I suspect to some extent we’ll all be a bit surprised.

    Absolutely! I mean there are people on here who know they can make a better Bond picture than the EoN team, and all of the top notch talent that they bring on board, but I’m firmly in the camp they actually know what they’re doing, and the only thing I’d guarantee is the next film will likely be another global hit. And I will likely marvel that they did it again. After sixty plus years this character keeps on, not just existing, but competing with the latest box office offerings.

    There’s no equation for this. There really isn’t. It’s a mixture of owning a great character, intuition, hiring the right people, the best people in their craft, marketing and distribution. But how they make this “relic of the Cold War” relevant over and over and over is puzzling, especially in a world where attention spans may be on the decline.

    The Craig Era had a tremendous emotional impact on my life. I adore NTTD, in spite of some warts, but I am excited for the new era, and I have no doubt they will deliver “something similar/something new” as they always seem to be able to do. That’s their gift.

    Oh yes, they know how to reinvent this character.
    delfloria wrote: »
    When talking synergy through merchandising and product spin offs Bond has had ample time over the years to make inroads but it has not stuck the landing. At Comic Con this year I only saw two or three collectable items at Factory Ent. and that was it. No cosplay, no sideshow figures, no Funko Pop, no coverage of the Road To Millions and no advanced buzz for the video game. Even Indy had more of a presence.

    Bit out of the loop as I have no interest in comic con (although is it quite the same audience as Bond?), and not having any interest in merchandise either it’s a bit tricky for me to gauge, but I can understand it’s all probably lacking a bit. The game is still very much in development though and it’s early days before a next era. It’ll be something to build upon, on something that is already successful (probably the healthiest this franchise has been honestly).
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    peter wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @007HallY i agree with everything you said (and I do like your concepts).

    Appreciate it (it’s very much the sort of thing you and indeed any producer would look at and say ‘it’s not a film yet’ and they’d be right without a proper story/plot/outline!)

    It’ll be very interesting seeing what a relevant/modern Bond story will become when it comes to this next film. I suspect to some extent we’ll all be a bit surprised.

    Absolutely! I mean there are people on here who know they can make a better Bond picture than the EoN team, and all of the top notch talent that they bring on board, but I’m firmly in the camp they actually know what they’re doing, and the only thing I’d guarantee is the next film will likely be another global hit. And I will likely marvel that they did it again. After sixty plus years this character keeps on, not just existing, but competing with the latest box office offerings.

    There’s no equation for this. There really isn’t. It’s a mixture of owning a great character, intuition, hiring the right people, the best people in their craft, marketing and distribution. But how they make this “relic of the Cold War” relevant over and over and over is puzzling, especially in a world where attention spans may be on the decline.

    The Craig Era had a tremendous emotional impact on my life. I adore NTTD, in spite of some warts, but I am excited for the new era, and I have no doubt they will deliver “something similar/something new” as they always seem to be able to do. That’s their gift.

    Great post @peter EON is unmatched in terms of longevity of a character. As I've said before, we are one of the luckiest fandoms in the world. There are slow times sure, but do we really want Bond products out as fast as the MCU does? EON takes their time, and we should be grateful.
  • BurgessBurgess
    Posts: 380
    peter wrote: »
    @burgess, I'm really enjoying your posts. Very thoughtful and intuitive. Not sure what line of work you're in, but you seem to have a great understanding of the film industry generally, its marketing, and insightful ideas on Bond in particular.

    All this guessing what Gen-whatever are looking for misses the point. Make relevant and contemporary films, but interest the younger generation in the brand, outside of the films, via video games, comics, collectibles.... As you rightly state: success begets success.

    Very reasonable and intelligent, and, I think, a path that EoN will similarly take (RTAM and an upcoming video game being the start...).

    Really great and insightful post. Thanks for droppong such intelligent and realistic concepts, thoughts and ideas. Damn nice to read.

    Thank you @peter . I majored in film studies but it’s not my day job. I’ve gotten back into screenwriting over the last few years with a writing partner.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @MaxCasino , thank you! And I agree that we are indeed lucky!

    @Burgess , Ahaha I thought you must’ve had some background. You will do well. It’s obvious you have a good head on your shoulders. You seem dialled in on both the marketing and creative.

    A few of us here are produced scriptwriters — if you ever want to talk shop or have eyes on your scripts for feedback, don’t hesitate to contact me (and I can get a few of us together in our PMs.)!

    Good luck @Burgess and keep posting!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    peter wrote: »
    @MaxCasino , thank you! And I agree that we are indeed lucky!

    @Burgess , Ahaha I thought you must’ve had some background. You will do well. It’s obvious you have a good head on your shoulders. You seem dialled in on both the marketing and creative.

    A few of us here are produced scriptwriters — if you ever want to talk shop or have eyes on your scripts for feedback, don’t hesitate to contact me (and I can get a few of us together in our PMs.)!

    Good luck @Burgess and keep posting!

    I'll remember that @peter I've got a few ideas I'd love to pitch to a professional literary company/film studios.

    I'm interested in what everyone thinks.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @MaxCasino — I’m always available. Don’t hafta ask. Pop over to the PMs and if I can offer feedback at that time I will. Sometimes I need to ask for more time to get to things.

    But the thing we need, as I was just having this discussion yesterday with another member of this community, is getting eyes on scripts. And lots of eyes. Professional writers, regular people who love films that you can trust; if the script has a specific subject, like the lead character is a cop or a teacher or a community activist, you’d want to try and connect with the real people in those jobs too, and ask for their feedback.

    Feedback….its’s scary but necessary.

    But if you ask a few on here, I’m never scary with feedback! I, and others on here, want to see success of a fellow writer, or just someone with a damn fine idea.

    Whenever you think you’re ready, Max, or if you just want to spitball your ideas, just PM.

    P
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,999
    @Peter -- I don't believe anyone on this site believes they can make a better Bond film than EON.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter -- I don't believe anyone on this site believes they can make a better Bond film than EON.

    I can think of a few. Thankfully, they aren’t in charge of EON or IFP.
  • Colonel_VenusColonel_Venus
    edited August 23 Posts: 580
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter -- I don't believe anyone on this site believes they can make a better Bond film than EON.

    Oh, I don't only belive that I could make a better Bond film than EON. I belive pretty much anyone here could make a better Bond film than EON. And by that I don't necessarily mean better than CR or SF. I mean better than EONs average since BB & MGW took over.
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