Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 16,359
    matt_u wrote: »
    Apparently even Barbara has no idea where Bond would go after Craig.

    Yes that was a bit worrying, although I guess they did make that doc up to 2 years ago so maybe she's got an idea by now! :)

    Risico007 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I'd always like them to use Fleming as a springboard for a new era if they can. But only if they can actually update it in a way that makes sense like they did with CR. It's not going to be possible to do that with all of the books, and even harder now considering bits and pieces have been cherry picked through the years.

    If they can't update the stories in a way that makes sense, I'd rather they went their own way with things. The Fleming "reimagined" doesn't really do it for me. With that in mind, a film like GoldenEye would be a great template to use, I feel.

    Yes, using Fleming as a springboard is the best idea for a new Bond. I think of TLD...there wasn't a ton of Fleming, but there was enough.

    That being said, there's not a lot of usable Fleming left. It's now so dated and picked over. I can't see Eon dropping in, say, a giant squid, just to tick the boxes skipped over in 1962.

    Perhaps pieces of MR, TMWTGG, and THR.

    there is plenty of unused fleming

    Really, there's really a lot. And most of it isn't dated at all. How is a giant squid dated? Or swimming amongst barracudas? Or partaking in a game with M? Or being brainwashed and assigned a deadly mission to prove yourself? Not to mention the characters, names and all, still left on the page. I say there's plenty.

    And coming back to Fleming doesn't necessarily mean using the original product per se. Think of the scenes we've seen of Bond on his yacht, spear fishing. That is pure Fleming right there. It's all about the spirit of it. And EON knows it well, fortunately.

    Exactly and while I am in the minority I love the smaller plots of the craig films even Skyfall and Spectre (which i am not fans of) have these sort of smaller intimate plots and with the right screen writer you can develop fleming into modern day thrilled.



    I remember saying this years ago even in the smaller stories Fleming adds a line or two that could be developed into films on their own.. Case in point in the hildebrand rarity Bond is at the Seychelles Islands invsting the security of a potential military base... if I was witing the next bond film that would be my starting point. well why is Bond there? Is there issues on the island? Threats? etc and build it into a good 2 hour film

    Well in Fleming's Octopussy 007 investigates the murderer of his childhood mentor Hannes Oberhauser... did you like that plotline from the books being adapted? :D ;)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    Given the opening comments in Being James Bond about them noting how goofy the series had become with DAD and wanting to course correct into something more grounded and visceral, I wonder if they'll have had their fill of that with the Craig era and choose to go in a more "larger than life" direction or if they'll double down with another Craig-type performance and emotional, darker era. Sounds like something they'll be working on for years to come, shame they haven't at least given it some real, serious thought yet.
  • mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Apparently even Barbara has no idea where Bond would go after Craig.
    Yes that was a bit worrying, although I guess they did make that doc up to 2 years ago so maybe she's got an idea by now! :)
    One can also assume that this is all about marketing, in order to sell the last installment of this era to the audience, and that in this context it would be counterproductive to say that there are plans already planned for the future.
  • Posts: 6,709
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Apparently even Barbara has no idea where Bond would go after Craig.
    Yes that was a bit worrying, although I guess they did make that doc up to 2 years ago so maybe she's got an idea by now! :)
    One can also assume that this is all about marketing, in order to sell the last installment of this era to the audience, and that in this context it would be counterproductive to say that there are plans already planned for the future.

    Of course, what would we like them to have said:

    "Craig was great, the greatest really, but we already know where to go next. And we've got a good notion of who will be the next actor. And he's gonna be terrific".

    Nop ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    He was sat right next to her when she said it so I imagine there's some courtesy going on there too.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Of course they are going to call the next one the best ever, or at the very least the best since Connery.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Given the opening comments in Being James Bond about them noting how goofy the series had become with DAD and wanting to course correct into something more grounded and visceral, I wonder if they'll have had their fill of that with the Craig era and choose to go in a more "larger than life" direction or if they'll double down with another Craig-type performance and emotional, darker era. Sounds like something they'll be working on for years to come, shame they haven't at least given it some real, serious thought yet.

    This is very simplistic, but if Jason Bourne was what they were at least in part inspired by in the mid-2000s, that spot is now taken by Marvel, right? And even the serious films they put out are much more light-hearted than anything Craig ever did. They will obviously never go full-on supernatural (well, more than the unkillable Bond who knows everything about any field that might come up already is) so that could be the gist they would take from that. As I have said a couple of times already, the other "movement" in action films that went on during Craig's tenure is violent "style" films. John Wick, Atomic Blonde, that kind of stuff. But that would make Bond even more of an adult proposition and would be a step further in this direction, whereas before they have tended to zag after a zig.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    @ImpertinentGoon, it's funny you mention that because I've been doing another Bondathon recently and it's really, starkly stood out just how much of an expert Bond is in essentially every department, every scenario he finds himself in.
  • Posts: 1,630
    As noted above by various folks, it seems a change -- with a semi-hard reboot and, frankly, I think a flat-out reboot though not bothering with the origin story again (except perhaps by brief references here and there) -- is a'comin'. I fear that the Fast and the Furious / Superhero movies (and F&F pretty much presents super-heroes and defies gravity and other scientific realities, doesn't it ?!!) influence will be strong, as we return to one-off, action-oriented spectaculars. I say "fear" because they go light on characters, and heavy on action and CGI, and defy not only probabilities but even gravity. That would yield an approach that not only removes Bond from swimming deeply in the serious reality pool, but removes him from reality and planet Earth ! Hopefully, EON will be able to keep Bond distinct from the absurd cartoon-level of the popular films of the day. They may succeed for a few reasons, among others: too far removed from that which makes Bond popular, the Marvel films may have peaked in popularity so it may well be too late to follow their lead even were one so inclined, Bond still can do spectacular, action-oriented, fun films without going t-h-a-t far. I know, I know...MR but they did step back from that, back onto the surface of the planet.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,030
    I think a straight mission soon after QOS would be a good place to start… Bond has found his solace, but this should only be mentioned very briefly and tastefully. Then he really dives into what would essentially be his third mission as 007. So he’s certainly a younger Bond, but also isn’t a “reboot”.
  • Posts: 9,846
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Apparently even Barbara has no idea where Bond would go after Craig.

    Yes that was a bit worrying, although I guess they did make that doc up to 2 years ago so maybe she's got an idea by now! :)

    Risico007 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I'd always like them to use Fleming as a springboard for a new era if they can. But only if they can actually update it in a way that makes sense like they did with CR. It's not going to be possible to do that with all of the books, and even harder now considering bits and pieces have been cherry picked through the years.

    If they can't update the stories in a way that makes sense, I'd rather they went their own way with things. The Fleming "reimagined" doesn't really do it for me. With that in mind, a film like GoldenEye would be a great template to use, I feel.

    Yes, using Fleming as a springboard is the best idea for a new Bond. I think of TLD...there wasn't a ton of Fleming, but there was enough.

    That being said, there's not a lot of usable Fleming left. It's now so dated and picked over. I can't see Eon dropping in, say, a giant squid, just to tick the boxes skipped over in 1962.

    Perhaps pieces of MR, TMWTGG, and THR.

    there is plenty of unused fleming

    Really, there's really a lot. And most of it isn't dated at all. How is a giant squid dated? Or swimming amongst barracudas? Or partaking in a game with M? Or being brainwashed and assigned a deadly mission to prove yourself? Not to mention the characters, names and all, still left on the page. I say there's plenty.

    And coming back to Fleming doesn't necessarily mean using the original product per se. Think of the scenes we've seen of Bond on his yacht, spear fishing. That is pure Fleming right there. It's all about the spirit of it. And EON knows it well, fortunately.

    Exactly and while I am in the minority I love the smaller plots of the craig films even Skyfall and Spectre (which i am not fans of) have these sort of smaller intimate plots and with the right screen writer you can develop fleming into modern day thrilled.



    I remember saying this years ago even in the smaller stories Fleming adds a line or two that could be developed into films on their own.. Case in point in the hildebrand rarity Bond is at the Seychelles Islands invsting the security of a potential military base... if I was witing the next bond film that would be my starting point. well why is Bond there? Is there issues on the island? Threats? etc and build it into a good 2 hour film

    Well in Fleming's Octopussy 007 investigates the murderer of his childhood mentor Hannes Oberhauser... did you like that plotline from the books being adapted? :D ;)

    All kidding aside its one of the better elements of Spectre
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    Given the opening comments in Being James Bond about them noting how goofy the series had become with DAD and wanting to course correct into something more grounded and visceral, I wonder if they'll have had their fill of that with the Craig era and choose to go in a more "larger than life" direction or if they'll double down with another Craig-type performance and emotional, darker era. Sounds like something they'll be working on for years to come, shame they haven't at least given it some real, serious thought yet.

    I think we might get a more straightforward mission next time, but Barbara to me seems much more passionate about Craig’s run than she was with Brosnan, and you can see traces of the Craig era even in those films (more personal stories, attempts at making Bond more vulnerable). Plus I’m not sure how well a light Bond would work nowadays. Kingsman for example got a fair bit of stick for the bit with the princess, and the glastonbury scene in the sequel. I wonder if the only way Bond works in the modern world is as a slightly darker and grittier character? If they go too Roger Moore then there’s a risk of being criticised for glorifying his less commendable traits, or for being a step down from Craig’s more layered take. Definitely wouldn’t win them the awards they’ve been chasing with the last few.

    So, I don’t think the next Bond will be worlds away from Craig, character wise. But there’s still other ways they could differentiate him. I like the idea of stripping it down again and making a tight, dirty little thriller to introduce the next guy. NTTD seems to be another big, introspective epic, so going a bit more barebones could be a refreshing change. And they don’t have to sacrifice depth in doing that either, Fury Road a few years back was non stop action, but still had a lot going on under the surface.

    I could be completely wrong though, and I think that’s really exciting. I am sad Craig’s going, but he’s been doing it for so long that the thought of a whole new Bond and a whole new era is really tantilising imo, because we have no idea what it’ll be like.
  • Tom Hiddleston as Ian Flemings James Bond in. ..... Directed by Christopher Nolan.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    That's exactly how I feel about Nolan. .
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 6,709
    Tom Hiddleston is almost bald now. And after Tenet, I don't want Nolan nowhere near Bond :D
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Univex wrote: »
    Tom Hiddleston is almost bald now. And after Tenet, I don't want Nolan nowhere near Bond :D

    Can't have a bald 007...right?
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    In all seriousness, I realise that a wig wouldn't be accepted these days, but if it was, then I would have gone with Mark Strong. I have always felt he would make a fantastic Bond in the Fleming mould.
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 6,709
    Well, implantology has come a long way. And I'm not talking about teeth :D

    Strong should've been a villain alongside his pal during his tenure ;)
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @ImpertinentGoon, it's funny you mention that because I've been doing another Bondathon recently and it's really, starkly stood out just how much of an expert Bond is in essentially every department, every scenario he finds himself in.

    That is one of those things why I love the character. It is of course quite preposterous and unattainable, but I still strive to be as casually knowledgeable as he is. This isn't exactly knowledge based, but one of my favourites and at the same time one of the most unbelievable instances is in DAD, when Bond just casually steps in to fence against someone who spars with an Olympic champion! Of course, Graves could be utter crap and Miranda and everyone else only humours him for his money, but it sure is presented as if Bond just is at least a very high-level amateur fencer...

    Getting back on topic: To me, the critical point is that Bond films are so rare now. Yes, NTTD had extreme circumstances, but all I see out of EON points towards Bond being a rare, luxury event. Plus, big budget productions seem to just take much longer nowadays. That means in a way that they cannot miss, which in turn means they cannot take risks or big swings. I am not saying all Craig films are the same, but to me they more or less all work in the same register. Contrast that with f.e. Moore's tenure and you have all kinds of different films. But they managed 7 films in 12 years, whereas now the feeling is, if the next guy's tenure lasted 12 years we would be lucky to get 4 films out of it. You can try something like MR, when you know you will have the next one in cinemas two years later and you can do something completely different, if you want.
    To cut a long ramble short and say something, I have said before: I would love a very comedic Bond, maybe even from Vaughn. I would love a hard R Bond by Gareth Evans (The Raid, Gangs of London). But not if that meant a decade-long pause between "regular" thriller Bonds...
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,523
    More of this in the next JB film ? :)>-
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 4,611
    I'm a fan of the "lighter touch" future Bond. Re the tone of the film (just the tone) one can look at something like Spiderman - Home coming to have a young hero finding his feet against the bad guys and we dont need the World blowing up as the threat. RF is such a great actor that he could move the character of M to become more of a mentor and fatherfigure (he does have expereince "in the field") with more room for quick witted banter and zero "navel gazing". A first act of moving into new digs, trip to Savile Row, new car etc would hint at a new Bond but avoid the complete reboot. The DC Bond seems to have focussed on ageing, darkness, brooding etc. Nice to explore themes such as youth, nievity, inexperience, learning to trust, fitting in, etc Whats interesting to consider is what writers have the skill to go in a new direction and also, directing? I cant see CF going in this direction.
  • Posts: 16,153
    I'd like post Craig to continue with the effort made towards character development in this era, but possibly with a lighter touch. I'd also prefer stand alone films, unless it were a planned trilogy (which I sincerely doubt would happen).
    My hunch is, post Craig will end up being one off's every 6-10 years. As Michael gets older and retires, Barbara becomes more and more interested in other projects, Bond as a franchise will decrease productivity. It's already decreased by half since Cubby's day. I think that will continue.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2021 Posts: 6,287
    I definitely prefer a more serious Bond going forward, like early Connery and most Craig.

    There are quotes from Cubby about not letting the corporate suits get control of the franchise, so I can see Michael, Barbara, and then their children, continuing to be involved and not selling the franchise because...well, Cubby said so.

    I don't see Amazon buying MGM for new Bond film content only every 5-10 years. I think they'll give Eon an incentive (financing outside projects) in exchange for more frequent Bond films, and maybe even installing an Amy Pascal type under Michael and Barbara.

    The sad thing is that I don't think Gregg is ready. Barbara's first major sequence was the LTK truck finale. Gregg's was (ehh) the airplane/snow sequence in SP.

    Maybe they need to find a subordinate non-family producer to work under the auspices of Michael and Barbara, at least until the next generation is primed (if they want it).

    That all being said, many family businesses fail or are sold at exactly this transition (when it's cousins, not siblings, running it--the loyalty is not the same and Cubby's been gone a while now).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    I think the aeroplane sequence was pretty solid, but then someone did get a career-ending injury on it, so possibly not a massive tick next to that one.
  • Posts: 16,153
    echo wrote: »
    I definitely prefer a more serious Bond going forward, like early Connery and most Craig.

    There are quotes from Cubby about not letting the corporate suits get control of the franchise, so I can see Michael, Barbara, and then their children, continuing to be involved and not selling the franchise because...well, Cubby said so.

    I don't see Amazon buying MGM for new Bond film content only every 5-10 years. I think they'll give Eon an incentive (financing outside projects) in exchange for more frequent Bond films, and maybe even installing an Amy Pascal type under Michael and Barbara.

    The sad thing is that I don't think Gregg is ready. Barbara's first major sequence was the LTK truck finale. Gregg's was (ehh) the airplane/snow sequence in SP.

    Maybe they need to find a subordinate non-family producer to work under the auspices of Michael and Barbara, at least until the next generation is primed (if they want it).

    That all being said, many family businesses fail or are sold at exactly this transition (when it's cousins, not siblings, running it--the loyalty is not the same and Cubby's been gone a while now).

    I hope you're right about Amazon. I'm afraid I agree about Gregg. Of course, my perception of him might have been slightly tainted by the interview where we named SPECTRE as his favorite film in the entire series.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    To judge Gregg on one sequence in a very flawed film isn’t entirely fair. He’s been working on this series for a very long time in various departments.

    He is also a very creative inventor, highly intelligent and he’s passionate about these films.

    He will be just fine in his role beside his aunt.
  • Posts: 1,630
    That sequence in SP was excellent ! As for a serious Bond continuing, I don't see them going all goofy, but I expect a return to a lighter, more fun tone. As for Bond being naive, well, I suppose that could be explored, but I doubt it. Fleming's Bond had been in WWII and plenty of folks got their maturity accelerated by the experience. In CR Fleming's Bond missed any cues which Vesper might have given, but that did not make him naive. He was fooled...and enamored. At any rate, we just had the first-time-ever genuine rendition of CR (though I do enjoy the '67 vintage of CR), so...well...it's time for a change. So -- which way ? Accentuate the psychopathic killer aspects of Bond ? Doesn't sound very entertaining. When it was PB's turn he was trying - per his own statements - to cross Connery/Lazenby with Moore. Of course, Connery already entered the Moore universe, so to speak, with DAF. Again - film-makers' choice, as it will be again. It's time for a change - if for no other reason than not simply repeating a Craig-ish arc. And I don't see it going even harder and more disturbed, so, the other direction. Some of NTTD might give us a glimpse, eh, as did DAF give us a glimpse of the future films. Where, you ask, do I possibly see that ? In just the briefest of moments of what's been revealed to date. Specifically - though the Cuba sequence has some disturbing stuff - "ashes, ashes, they all fall down" in the nightclub, showing the villain's evil plan, the rest looks more fun-tertaining. Some playfulness with Paloma, fighting and a shoot-out in fine evening wear, grabbing the drink tray, using it as a weapon while downing the drink ! Just, just, JUST the right touch of Bond style and humor ! BTW - as for more of where does Bond go after Craig, since there's been a pause - or cessation ? (Pinky to mouth) - in the production of any more Austin Powers films or Kingsmen films, then perhaps the producers are done lifting major plot point and evil-villain-plans from the Bond spoofs. (I realize the spectacles in the Kingsmen films are rather Harry Palmer-ish but, by and large, those are Bond spoof films, yes ?)
  • I don't expect a radical overhaul once Craig leaves. There may be an attempt with the next film to try and tie in another Fleming angle, or bring Bond more back in line with a traditional Bond flick (pretty much all the Bond actors debuts followed this pattern, apart from Moore in LALD, where the newer light hearted approach followed on from DAF).

    Also, watching Being James Bond, the general consensus from the producers is CR and SF are the outstanding successes of Craig's tenure, so I would expect a return to this type of film for the next one. This seems to be the safe bet to launch a new actors tenure on.
  • Maybe is it controversial, but Bond 25 could take inspiration from the Michael G. Wilson Alfonse Ruggiero's treatment for Bond 17 and how it planned to reinvigorate the series. While the whole was far from perfect, it managed to come up with a blockbuster technothriller story, in tune with the times and even with a hint of futurism, while leaving the room for a Flemingian Bond.

    Such an approach could allow the next movie to stand out from the Craig era, without breaking free in a too radical way, thanks to a not so different portray of the lead character.
  • I don't know how many times I'll say this or how many times I have to say this until it becomes true - Aidan Turner in a true-to-novel adaptation movie!
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