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Same here. There is also a lot of overthinking going on. I've discovered, however, that most punches thrown at the Craigs may as well be thrown at the older ones. If "lacking chemistry" is an issue, one wonders how we ever sat through at least 15 or 16 Bond films prior to CR.
The thing is, love can work in two ways: either opposite or similarly, either you fell in love with a person because both of you have similarities, or you fell in love with a person because there's something in that person that's lacking in you and only he/she could fill, and you find that challenging and interesting because it's a trait that goes against your own trait/personality.
With Bond and Madeleine, personally, I'm talking about the characters here, not the actors/actresses, it's not opposite but not similar either, Bond is a damaged individual, a man who have lost his loved ones in Vesper, Mathis, M and Felix Leiter, suffered loses, experienced danger and cynicism, and weariness in job, those are the things I don't see in Madeleine, sure, she's a psychiatrist, but that doesn't mean that she understands Bond, romantically and deeply, I think Craig's Bond fell in love with her out of weariness and hunger for settlement in life, he wanted to settle down and suddenly Madeleine came on the right time.
Is Madeleine Bond's opposite? No, I think that goes to Paloma and Vesper, what trait does Madeleine have that Bond didn't have and that made him fall in love with her? He had seen that in Vesper because she had the virtues that Bond doesn't have, and Vesper had the vulnerability to counter Bond's hard armor (this was evident in the shower scene), so Bond saw that as a valuable aspect for him to protect her.
Paloma was youthful, enthusiastic and groovy to Bond's jaded and weary mood, what Madeleine have that Bond didn't have and felt as an emptiness in Bond himself or lacking and only that woman could fill? Madeleine again, was cold and distant, but those are Bond himself too.
But is she his equal? Neither, Camille and Lucia both have that: traumatized and cynical over their experiences and for me, would be a better match for Bond himself, because no doubt they would understand each other, Madeleine was trying to match Bond, psychologically but in a wrong way, how did she understands Bond? Did Madeleine suffered the same experiences as Bond himself? Danger? Cynicism and all? No, she didn't.
Did she suffered weariness and traumas in her job? No, she didn't.
If Bond was at the top of his game like in Casino Royale, does anyone think he would've fallen in love with Madeleine? I doubt it, he had fell in love with her because he's hungry to settle down, he wanted to have a family so badly and Madeleine was happened to be the best shot at his longing.
In my view, of course.
Yes I struggle to think of the ones there was chemistry if these ones don’t have it. Rog and Maud, Tim and Mayam… I’m running out already.
Pierce and Izabella Scorupco (also Sophie Marceau and Halle Berry), George and Diana Rigg (and Catherine Von Schell), there's for every Bond, probably a controversial thought, but Carey Lowell have a better chemistry with Dalton for me.
I thought Seydoux, the writers, and the director managed to heroically claw back some ground in NTTD, because she's much more interesting here. Both her backstory and her performance help a lot, though again, there isn't a huge amount of chemistry between the characters. I say characters because I think chemistry between actors is very difficult to pin down on anything and can be very subjective, where as most chemistry between characters starts on the page. Are these two characters fun together? Do they have scenes where you smile at their interaction? Is there something going on between them that makes you want to see them together more?
I'm not the crazy Paloma fanboy that some are, but people wanted more from her because it was fun to see Bond and her interact. I often hear people say they wished we had more scenes with Bond and Felix in Craig's era because they tend to be great together. I'll only speak for myself here, but I needed some of that kind of spark between Bond and Madeleine in Spectre to set up that relationship.
As I said, I think NTTD salvages just enough from the wreckage that is Spectre to keep me interested in them as a couple, but it's late in the game. Half of NTTD's problem is Spectre, imo.
(Song inspiration: Cavatina by John Williams)
Could have it foreshadow a moment in the third act where he rolls a harp down a flight of stairs at a group of soldiers. With a quip ofc
Interestingly, I gather from some of the behind-the-scenes material that Sean was very kind, open and caring towards his female co-stars, yet only a fraction of that was reflected in the actual films. (Bond and Domino. Bond and Aki/Kissy. ...) It's as if Bond was meant to keep some emotional distance from the ladies. (And that's probably in keeping with Fleming too, although I find the Fleming Bond surprisingly generous with his feelings in some of the books.)
Perhaps the "chemistry" between 007 and the girl means different things to us all. Some won't budge unless the romance flickers hard; others may project themselves into Bond's skin and "feel" something stronger than what's on screen. I don't mind admitting that I'm probably filling in a few blanks myself in SP, thereby assuming the role of the "loner Bond" (as I like to call him in that film) in relation to the "loner Madeleine".
I almost dare not say this, but there's something about Bond and Pussy that doesn't strike me as particularly -- uh -- "chemical", no matter how much praise Honor had for Sean as "the sexiest thing on two legs" or something like that. Bond's affection for Kara, however, feels solid, with the final scene of TLD something of an exclamation mark to their romance.
I think actors' chemistry could be important as well, because they're the ones who would bring those characters to life, how would we buy the relationship that is supposed to be great on paper, if not executed properly due to the lack of chemistry between the actors? And some scripts where even the romances on paper were not convincing, the actors both made it seemed look great because they have chemistry.
It's not subjective, when the romance is not convincing, it's easy to spot, think of why many people liked the pairing of Craig and Eva Green? Because they have chemistry, and think of why many people disliked the pairing of Craig and Seydoux (particularly in SP) from the majority of complaints, it's because, simply they have no chemistry, even Calvin Dyson said so.
Bond is a romantic hopeful in the books, sure, he's cold at his job, but he's vulnerable towards women, like he's becoming almost an entirely different person when he's with them, and acting a bit naive when he's with women, it's his weakness in the books, the film changed him a lot.
For me, the chemistry is about the connection between the pair, it's the familiarity, that I'm not being uncomfortable when watching them on screen, it's almost a realistic portrayal of a couple that definitely I would buy them being together, some of the relationships failed on that, or if not, just straight up, platonic.
I'll give you Izabella, but the others I can't really see, and I'd say Daniel and Léa are better together than most of those.
It's a good point that on a chemistry front Daniel and Jeffrey Wright actually have a fair bit. Really they only share a handful of scenes together, but I totally buy their friendship. It's especially strong in NTTD.
Roger and David Hedison are probably the only other James & Felix pairing to manage that.
Yes as excellent as Sean is, I don't think he particularly connects to any of his female co-stars. The more I consider his Bond, the more cold and slightly robotic he seems. Played with immense charisma and brilliantly, but his Bond is the least human of the bunch.
I think it's interesting to look at his Bond in 1983 compared with Roger's: Roger has some reasonably genuine moments of warmth with Octopussy, plus he's allowed to show a bit of fear and anger at points in the film too. But Bond in NSNA remains a button-pressing quip machine - and it's not like it's a version which is unfaithful to the one Connery played for Eon. Eon's Bond had developed, whereas Sean's was rather frozen in aspic and revived; seeing the two together kind of highlighted how Eon's had moved on.
The exception for Sean is maybe Fiona Volpe, perhaps the only time he has an encounter which actually feels anything approaching sexy to me; but the character clearly has no feelings toward her. It's notable that he starts to feel a bit closer to Tiffany, maybe only because he shares a laugh with her at the end, which is one of the most human and warm moments he has- which kind of shows how little he's shown before!
Yes I don't really buy Bond and Pussy; which is a shame as it's absolutely vital to the plot that she does fall for him! Really she seems too strong and interesting a character to swoon for James in the way she does.
I have my reservations about Dalton, but the romance in TLD does work for me. I don't think she's the love of his of life or anything, but I feel like he does genuinely care for her, which doesn't always happen with Bond.
George and Diana have chemistry for me, but maybe it's more on Diana, since she had chemistry with almost every supporting cast in that film, she even had chemistry with Savalas himself, but I think she and George have chemistry, it helped that the film developed their romance so well.
The same for Brosnan and Marceau, because they have a certain closeness that it's very hard to explain, but they have chemistry, and there's some maturity in their relationship, if not for her being a villain, I could say that Bond and Elektra could make a great couple.
Even Connery's Bond, as cruel as he was, liked women. He wanted to be with women.
My same thoughts towards Craig, he's too hard to be taken seriously in romantic scenes, he's just too tough to be in some drama or romance (yes, that includes falling in love), but again, it's difficult when you have a very smooth actor either like Roger Moore whose not believable in 'sincere' or 'genuine' romance.
I liked it when it's balanced, that in my opinion, Brosnan, Dalton and Lazenby nailed, balancing the toughness and the smoothness.
Yes, Rigg is brilliant and could make you believe she was in love with anyone. As you say, she's great with Telly. If they hadn't cast her I think the whole film would fall apart. I don't see any chemistry there, just a brilliant actress.
I look at her with Pat Macnee and you can see two people really in tune; Lazenby is not providing that.
Again, I'd say Daniel and Léa are more convincing to me. It's totally subjective.
Possibly also the lamppost.
I agree @echo very much agree 😊
He shagged almost every living creature, yes! 😁 Who would've thought he's the real life embodiment of James Bond (knows martial arts and karate and doing sex!)
I actually think it’s in Craig’s films that they got the closest to that raw sexual chemistry, and I reckon it’s because the films tried to depict it more genuinely as such. I got a bit of it between him and Solonge in CR, and with Lucia in SP. Even his kiss with the unnamed girl in the SP PTS is played up just a touch more erotically with them getting frisky in the elevator beforehand/the music, even though it defaults to the classic trope of Bond swanning off to do something.
When it comes to a more romantic connection with the Bond girls it’s a different kind of chemistry. It’s there with Bond and Tracy in OHMSS, Vesper and Bond in CR. Like others I think the filmmaking/direction really helps depict Bond and Madeline’s relationship in NTTD. I really don’t get quite as much of it from Bond and Kara in TLD though (she’s just a bit too naive I’ve always felt for her to be someone Bond can truly fall for. At best he warms to her, but I don’t get much from them apart from that).
It’s a bit like the barn scene in OHMSS. Rigg’s great, but even with Lazenby’s youth and off screen exploits he’s a rather limited actor who I never thought particularly gave off much in the way of sex appeal when he was onscreen (it’s just something you have or you don’t as an actor to whatever extent - Connery with his receding hairline had it, Craig with his craggy features has it, the older Moore had it, and even the overly intense Dalton and Brosnan with his strange transatlantic Irish accent and coiffured hair had it. Lazenby by contrast has a weird lack of it onscreen). But the film really leans into the romance with the soft focus, close shots, the music and dialogue. The actors don’t need to do the heavy lifting in that sense.
And yes, Seydoux is an incredible actress, and Craig's an amazing performer, so it's not because of their respective skills.
Top actress or by nepotism, for me, I can see the latter, if not for having the most influential personalities in the industry, she would've never been as big as she is.
I get that she's a good actress, but she could've never been a 'top' one in France, if not for her coming from a highly influential family.
Yes, it is.
But again, it's not about the icy character for me, we have a fair share of icily detached characters in the series but could still evoked a chemistry with their respective Bond actors, again, I could use Elektra (Sophie Marceau) as an example of this (and she's even more emotionally extreme and unpredictable than Madeleine was), but she had a chemistry with Brosnan, they've clicked together as a pair.
It's just not a fire between the actors, it's the comfort and familiarity while watching them on screen that I could buy them as a couple, for me, it's two things: the couple as characters and the couple as the actor/actress themselves, one would feel it if they really have connection, the compatibility.
From the paper, I could see that Madeleine and Bond could really click as a pair, I see it, but on execution, on how the actor/actress (Craig and Seydoux) handled it, the potential was not reached.
It's just the same as the mismatched couples in Hollywood, whom after all led to divorce, after all, many people think that Timothee Chalamet and Kylie Jenner is not a good pairing, the same for Liam Hemsworth and Miley Cyrus or heck, my goodness, Tom Cruise and Cher, none of those have chemistry with each other, and they're not really that looking good in the eyes when one sees them as a couple, so chemistry does happen, it's real, and it's objective when the majority of the public label it as such.
Romance was never an issue in the Connery films. No question in my mind that he was the sexiest Bond, but his Bond was only interested in sex. Women in his films are a conquest.
With OHMSS, we see a Bond who is honestly interested in a woman, something repeated in the TD series, and then again with Craig. As usual I skip PB, because his films do not stay with me.
For a series so dependent on a key Bond woman, I think it's interesting how many Bond women throughout the series have been forgettable. Beautiful yes, but often dull and forgettable (or memorable for how bad they are.)
I agree, and while it’s unfortunate that NTTD has to make up for SP’s shortcomings to begin with; I’ve never found the Bond/Madeline relationship to be interesting or that strong. Yeah I like some of the family bits in NTTD but that’s it.
I dunno, I never really got an extraordinary amount of chemistry between Bond and Elektra (I don't think the film is overly effective about their relationship either, and I'm not a huge fan of the direction or some of Brosnan's acting choices). Some of the scenes between them I find a bit cringey to be honest, which I don't find to be the case with SP at all.
I think the strength of Craig and Seydoux's performances come through in SP. I actually really like the interview scene and the ones on the train. You get the sense Bond is interested in Madeline and Madeline in turn slowly warms to Bond (again, it's a bit tricky in this film with such a pressing plot, some of the broader visual decisions, and with Madeline being such an icy character initially, but the film does its best. I'm not sure it's anywhere near as bad as some people are making it out to be, but neither is it quite as good as what we get in those initial NTTD scenes, or CR with Vesper which benefits from the film showing us their budding relationship at a slower pace/with a few more intimate moments like the shower scene, them talking about Bond's profession/his future etc.)
I wasn't a massive fan of Denise Richards myself, but nice to see she ranks up there for someone.
;)