Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    As everyone else is saying I’d prefer if they didn’t come back. If they must, so be it. But it would prove that EON doesn’t want to take many creative risks in the writing department. I’m happy that they have written Bond. But a change from them, I think would be a good thing. Keep Bond fresh.
  • edited September 8 Posts: 9,846
    One scene from the comic books i hope gets put into a film…

    So the villain is trying to make it seem like the new M is compromised and Bond sneaks into his apartment and appears to beat him up for information when the henchmen show up they realize its all a ruse and the blood on M’s shirt is ketchup and Bond and m take out the henchmen and then bond extracts them for info.

    Honestly the latest run of bond comic books have been amazing

    On a side note has anyone been reading your cold cold heart not only is it brilliant it does a better moonraker then well moonraker
  • Posts: 1,859
    delfloria wrote: »
    Regarding NSNA not feeling like an Eon production, I saw it at McClory's house in the Bahamas where he had replaced the score with Barry's Thunderball score and it made a world of difference. Not that it solved all the problems but it sure did help.

    Wow, that's very cool, you don't mind me asking what was the purpose of him tinkering away with it?

    Connery had a lot say in the production and LeGrande was his choice. McClory never liked the score that they ended up with and wanted show people how a "proper" score would have elevated the film.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    delfloria wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    Regarding NSNA not feeling like an Eon production, I saw it at McClory's house in the Bahamas where he had replaced the score with Barry's Thunderball score and it made a world of difference. Not that it solved all the problems but it sure did help.

    Wow, that's very cool, you don't mind me asking what was the purpose of him tinkering away with it?

    Connery had a lot say in the production and LeGrande was his choice. McClory never liked the score that they ended up with and wanted show people how a "proper" score would have elevated the film.

    Yes, that's what I've been saying in the other thread, Connery also had chosen his supporting cast for that too, he's the one who had recommend Kim Basinger, and the title came from Micheline Roquebrune whose his wife.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Univex wrote: »
    I, for one, don't want P&W back in any capacity. But I wouldn't want someone who is ignorant of Fleming's works. I can't believe there's not a single good writer who likes and has read Fleming and could have a good working relationship with Barbara and Michael. In any case, EON, here I am. Come and get me :)

    I agree. There is an argument to be had that P&W did a lot more Fleming adaptations in their initial drafts, to what eventually ended up on screen in many of their films.

    Whether this is just a rumour or not, or whether it became a creative decision at exec level to dilute down and change these original Fleming concepts, I don't know.

    We need another Maibaum, someone who really understood the novels and how best to adapt them, whether it was full on adaptations, or certain scenes adapted properly and then expertly woven into an original script, as in 80's Bond films - FYEO, OP, TLD, LTK.

    I don't count DAD being an adaptation of MR, SF being an adaptation of TMWTGG, or NTTD being an adaptation of YOLT. For me these are very poor attempts.
  • Which of these two options would you prefer?

    Bond 26 written and directed by Nolan in the summer of 2026
    Bond 26 written and directed by someone else in late 2027
  • Posts: 1,985
    Does snatching a couple of scenes and songs from an earlier work really count as an adaptation? The original films were barely adaptations. Were the YOLT references in NTTD supposed to give it some authenticity? To me it was a reminder that there's a book still waiting to be adapted properly.
  • Posts: 4,139
    I'd say SF was in many ways more a riff on YOLT than even NTTD was (it's obviously not strict adaptation, and that's fine). It involved ideas like Bond 'dying' and being reborn, the villain slowly going mad/being consumed by his own twisted goals, M effectively lying to Bond seemingly for his own sake.

    I really don't see what a faithful adaptation of the remaining Fleming novels would add. P&W are quite effective in the sense that they not only understand Fleming's novels but can also adapt ideas within them for an original script (which is really what you want a Bond film to do). Worth saying they haven't been the sole writers on Bond for a while now. Anyway, even Maibaum's skills weren't about how closely he adapted Fleming but instead how he diverted from them to make a solid film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    007HallY wrote: »
    I really don't see what a faithful adaptation of the remaining Fleming novels would add. P&W are quite effective in the sense that they not only understand Fleming's novels but can also adapt ideas within them for an original script (which is really what you want a Bond film to do). Worth saying they haven't been the sole writers on Bond for a while now. Anyway, even Maibaum's skills weren't about how closely he adapted Fleming but instead how he diverted from them to make a solid film.

    Yes indeed. I read how doing a strict Fleming adaptation would magically produce a great movie, and I don't really buy it. All that is left are fragments.
    Personally I think they've come up with some great plots: TWINE was full of new and pretty exciting ideas to a Bond fan, and the plot itself is good, even if the film ended up a slightly lacklustre affair.
  • Posts: 1,970
    Could we go back to stand alone Bond films with this new actor? or Can the franchise never go back to that after Craig?
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 9 Posts: 2,016
    I think it ultimately depends on what direction EON are looking at. For me, whatever direction they pick...I would love a bit of fantasy and outlandishness that won't hurt the plots of the next films. That way Bond 7 won't be compared to Craig's Bond. It's why I always think of TLD & GE for Bond 7's era...even the TSWLM.
  • Posts: 4,139
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Could we go back to stand alone Bond films with this new actor? or Can the franchise never go back to that after Craig?

    The Craig films are stand alone adventures. They just have a continuity of recurring story threads/characters. It's not that different to the first five Connery films (DN and FRWL are even sequels in effect). It's not that different to even the Moore films with how often characters cropped up. It's certainly not different to Fleming.

    I don't think we'll get an overarching villain like Blofeld in the next era. It'll probably have a sense of continuity, but they'll be individual adventures... so business as usual really.
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I really don't see what a faithful adaptation of the remaining Fleming novels would add. P&W are quite effective in the sense that they not only understand Fleming's novels but can also adapt ideas within them for an original script (which is really what you want a Bond film to do). Worth saying they haven't been the sole writers on Bond for a while now. Anyway, even Maibaum's skills weren't about how closely he adapted Fleming but instead how he diverted from them to make a solid film.

    Yes indeed. I read how doing a strict Fleming adaptation would magically produce a great movie, and I don't really buy it. All that is left are fragments.
    Personally I think they've come up with some great plots: TWINE was full of new and pretty exciting ideas to a Bond fan, and the plot itself is good, even if the film ended up a slightly lacklustre affair.

    Yeah, personally I think just 'adapting' what's left of Fleming in this way isn't much better than copy and pasting in essence. Heck, I'd even argue NTTD falls into that slightly (I don't think there was much need for the 'die Blofeld die' line for instance).

    The Craig era's interesting though, for all its faults. It's kinda a modern adaptation of Fleming's material. You can chart parallels with how Fleming's Bond changes throughout the novels, as well as how certain ideas are explored. But none of it is strict adaptation (even CR isn't a wholly faithful adaptation).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    I don't think anyone can simply adapt what's left of Fleming's books. Good source material doesn't mean that screenwriters are going to have an easy time putting together a good script. I do, however, believe that some bits and pieces of Fleming's, particularly from MR and TMWTGG, could inspire good scenes in films that obviously will need mostly fresh ideas no matter what.

    The Craig era started with CR, which itself was one third 'loose' adaptation of Fleming's book and two thirds new stuff. The other four films more or less started from scratch.
  • edited September 9 Posts: 1,340
    Right now even if they just used a title it would be better than another "Never die forever"
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 9 Posts: 6,296
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'd say SF was in many ways more a riff on YOLT than even NTTD was (it's obviously not strict adaptation, and that's fine). It involved ideas like Bond 'dying' and being reborn, the villain slowly going mad/being consumed by his own twisted goals, M effectively lying to Bond seemingly for his own sake.

    I really don't see what a faithful adaptation of the remaining Fleming novels would add. P&W are quite effective in the sense that they not only understand Fleming's novels but can also adapt ideas within them for an original script (which is really what you want a Bond film to do). Worth saying they haven't been the sole writers on Bond for a while now. Anyway, even Maibaum's skills weren't about how closely he adapted Fleming but instead how he diverted from them to make a solid film.

    Completely agreed about Maibaum. He knew how to take Fleming and make it more filmic. Let's be honest, some of these books are very internal and difficult to translate to film (YOLT, I'm looking at you).

    I think we would have had a quite different, and possibly better, YOLT script from Maibaum.
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I really don't see what a faithful adaptation of the remaining Fleming novels would add. P&W are quite effective in the sense that they not only understand Fleming's novels but can also adapt ideas within them for an original script (which is really what you want a Bond film to do). Worth saying they haven't been the sole writers on Bond for a while now. Anyway, even Maibaum's skills weren't about how closely he adapted Fleming but instead how he diverted from them to make a solid film.

    Yes indeed. I read how doing a strict Fleming adaptation would magically produce a great movie, and I don't really buy it. All that is left are fragments.
    Personally I think they've come up with some great plots: TWINE was full of new and pretty exciting ideas to a Bond fan, and the plot itself is good, even if the film ended up a slightly lacklustre affair.

    This is a great point. TWINE *was* a good original story for Bond, even if it turned out poorly (I'd put that down to the husband-and-wife scripting/directing duo).
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't think anyone can simply adapt what's left of Fleming's books. Good source material doesn't mean that screenwriters are going to have an easy time putting together a good script. I do, however, believe that some bits and pieces of Fleming's, particularly from MR and TMWTGG, could inspire good scenes in films that obviously will need mostly fresh ideas no matter what.

    The Craig era started with CR, which itself was one third 'loose' adaptation of Fleming's book and two thirds new stuff. The other four films more or less started from scratch.

    Agreed here too. I really don't understand why people think there's a ton of Fleming left to adapt. Wint and Kidd kicking the sh** out of Bond? Okay, that's like maybe a minute or less on film. The Spectreville train, I guess...but we're not going to see Tiffany Case tied to the tracks. That's similar to the TMWTGG train sequence.

    Barracuda swim? Okay, maybe for a PTS but it's at night and underwater scenes don't always work. LALD gold stash? Feels more like Indiana Jones.

    TSWLM motel confrontation..ehh, it doesn't scream Bond. I can see the tabloids complaining about how Bond went from the most elegant hotels to a roadside motel. Not going to happen, not to mention the legal constraints.

    The question room from YOLT? Oh, that's kind of cool in principle, maybe...but it had better be the first time Bond meets Blofeld (or some other villain)...because we're not getting Bond posing as a mute Japanese fisherman. And then if it's the first time Bond meets Blofeld, then you lose kind of the whole point of YOLT.

    I'd like to see a top ten wish list of unadapted Fleming scenes that people want to see on film.

    Let's face it. MR and TMWTGG are basically all that's left. Eon could say, "We don't care how many times MR has been loosely adapted. We're going to adapt it more closely to launch the new Bond just like CR."

    That's what I think they'll do next.
  • Posts: 1,340
    They can do LALD again. They didn't use the plot and It has Leiter and Quarrel.
  • Posts: 4,139
    I think people are looking at the creative possibilities way too narrowly here. There's lots in Fleming still to adapt. They're not necessarily full novels, but rather individual plot/character strands that can be used to build an original story upon.

    Can be anything. Take, for example, M asking Bond to assassinate someone as a favour/'off the books' mission like we saw in the FYEO short story. That's a great plot strand to include. M is personally involved in some sort of case and Bond feels like he has to do his 'dirty work'. There's so much they can riff off of there, and it's not something we've quite seen in the films.

    You've got Bond running into DuPont by chance in GF. That's something you can broadly adapt. What if, for example, instead of DuPont meeting Bond by chance/revealing he's having issues with someone cheating him out of money, it's an ex-lover of Bond's? Perhaps there's more stakes to her losing her money (maybe she's inherited this money but due to a gambling habit she's blown a substantial amount of it on someone cheating her. Bond, feeling sorry for her, agrees to help).

    There are many more examples, and conceivably you could 'adapt' the material from a single Fleming novel multiple times (as arguably is the case with SF and NTTD broadly using ideas from YOLT).
  • Posts: 1,340
    The hildebrand rarity is still there.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 9 Posts: 3,152
    A missing presumed dead Bond returns to MI6, where a signature bullet puts him on the trail of an assassin. M sends him on the mission before he's ready, so that Bond has to sink or swim. Is that TMWTGG or SF? There's still scope to 'remix' more Fleming in that kind of way, I'd say.
  • Posts: 3,276
    What's the point of still trying to suck out every last drop out of novels written 60 years ago? Yes, Ian Fleming came up with the character and the movie adaptions have been made, but can we please move on? The next Bond movie will be an original story and I'm sure there are plenty of skilled screenwriters around and people inside EON, that can come up with something great, without them having to comb Fleming's stories for some kind of source material.
  • edited September 9 Posts: 1,340
    Zekidk wrote: »
    What's the point of still trying to suck out every last drop out of novels written 60 years ago? Yes, Ian Fleming came up with the character and the movie adaptions have been made, but can we please move on? The next Bond movie will be an original story and I'm sure there are plenty of skilled screenwriters around and people inside EON, that can come up with something great, without them having to comb Fleming's stories for some kind of source material.

    Can they?

    Fleming is still more original than them.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    echo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'd say SF was in many ways more a riff on YOLT than even NTTD was (it's obviously not strict adaptation, and that's fine). It involved ideas like Bond 'dying' and being reborn, the villain slowly going mad/being consumed by his own twisted goals, M effectively lying to Bond seemingly for his own sake.

    I really don't see what a faithful adaptation of the remaining Fleming novels would add. P&W are quite effective in the sense that they not only understand Fleming's novels but can also adapt ideas within them for an original script (which is really what you want a Bond film to do). Worth saying they haven't been the sole writers on Bond for a while now. Anyway, even Maibaum's skills weren't about how closely he adapted Fleming but instead how he diverted from them to make a solid film.

    Completely agreed about Maibaum. He knew how to take Fleming and make it more filmic. Let's be honest, some of these books are very internal and difficult to translate to film (YOLT, I'm looking at you).

    I think we would have had a quite different, and possibly better, YOLT script from Maibaum.
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I really don't see what a faithful adaptation of the remaining Fleming novels would add. P&W are quite effective in the sense that they not only understand Fleming's novels but can also adapt ideas within them for an original script (which is really what you want a Bond film to do). Worth saying they haven't been the sole writers on Bond for a while now. Anyway, even Maibaum's skills weren't about how closely he adapted Fleming but instead how he diverted from them to make a solid film.

    Yes indeed. I read how doing a strict Fleming adaptation would magically produce a great movie, and I don't really buy it. All that is left are fragments.
    Personally I think they've come up with some great plots: TWINE was full of new and pretty exciting ideas to a Bond fan, and the plot itself is good, even if the film ended up a slightly lacklustre affair.

    This is a great point. TWINE *was* a good original story for Bond, even if it turned out poorly (I'd put that down to the husband-and-wife scripting/directing duo).
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't think anyone can simply adapt what's left of Fleming's books. Good source material doesn't mean that screenwriters are going to have an easy time putting together a good script. I do, however, believe that some bits and pieces of Fleming's, particularly from MR and TMWTGG, could inspire good scenes in films that obviously will need mostly fresh ideas no matter what.

    The Craig era started with CR, which itself was one third 'loose' adaptation of Fleming's book and two thirds new stuff. The other four films more or less started from scratch.

    Agreed here too. I really don't understand why people think there's a ton of Fleming left to adapt. Wint and Kidd kicking the sh** out of Bond? Okay, that's like maybe a minute or less on film. The Spectreville train, I guess...but we're not going to see Tiffany Case tied to the tracks. That's similar to the TMWTGG train sequence.

    Barracuda swim? Okay, maybe for a PTS but it's at night and underwater scenes don't always work. LALD gold stash? Feels more like Indiana Jones.

    TSWLM motel confrontation..ehh, it doesn't scream Bond. I can see the tabloids complaining about how Bond went from the most elegant hotels to a roadside motel. Not going to happen, not to mention the legal constraints.

    The question room from YOLT? Oh, that's kind of cool in principle, maybe...but it had better be the first time Bond meets Blofeld (or some other villain)...because we're not getting Bond posing as a mute Japanese fisherman. And then if it's the first time Bond meets Blofeld, then you lose kind of the whole point of YOLT.

    I'd like to see a top ten wish list of unadapted Fleming scenes that people want to see on film.

    Let's face it. MR and TMWTGG are basically all that's left. Eon could say, "We don't care how many times MR has been loosely adapted. We're going to adapt it more closely to launch the new Bond just like CR."

    That's what I think they'll do next.

    Yes I always got a bit confused how much folks wanted the Garden of Death, or said that it wasn't exploited to its full potential in NTTD. I mean, it's a wonderfully creepy idea and deserving to be featured, but it's a completely static garden- there's no exciting set piece to be staged with it; it's a character note more than anything.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think people are looking at the creative possibilities way too narrowly here. There's lots in Fleming still to adapt. They're not necessarily full novels, but rather individual plot/character strands that can be used to build an original story upon.

    Can be anything. Take, for example, M asking Bond to assassinate someone as a favour/'off the books' mission like we saw in the FYEO short story. That's a great plot strand to include. M is personally involved in some sort of case and Bond feels like he has to do his 'dirty work'. There's so much they can riff off of there, and it's not something we've quite seen in the films.

    You've got Bond running into DuPont by chance in GF. That's something you can broadly adapt. What if, for example, instead of DuPont meeting Bond by chance/revealing he's having issues with someone cheating him out of money, it's an ex-lover of Bond's? Perhaps there's more stakes to her losing her money (maybe she's inherited this money but due to a gambling habit she's blown a substantial amount of it on someone cheating her. Bond, feeling sorry for her, agrees to help).

    There are many more examples, and conceivably you could 'adapt' the material from a single Fleming novel multiple times (as arguably is the case with SF and NTTD broadly using ideas from YOLT).

    Yes, much like Spectre is based on a riff on Octopussy. Elements to build on, perhaps expand in new directions.
  • Posts: 3,276
    Zekidk wrote: »
    What's the point of still trying to suck out every last drop out of novels written 60 years ago? Yes, Ian Fleming came up with the character and the movie adaptions have been made, but can we please move on? The next Bond movie will be an original story and I'm sure there are plenty of skilled screenwriters around and people inside EON, that can come up with something great, without them having to comb Fleming's stories for some kind of source material.

    Can they?

    Fleming is still more original than them.

    Then Bond is truly dead if no one in the entire movie industry can make a new and modern spin, oozing creativity and orginality.
  • Posts: 4,139
    Zekidk wrote: »
    What's the point of still trying to suck out every last drop out of novels written 60 years ago? Yes, Ian Fleming came up with the character and the movie adaptions have been made, but can we please move on? The next Bond movie will be an original story and I'm sure there are plenty of skilled screenwriters around and people inside EON, that can come up with something great, without them having to comb Fleming's stories for some kind of source material.

    Can they?

    Fleming is still more original than them.

    It's more for the writers actually having something to go off of when creating a new Bond story (again, they're not simply copy and pasting a lot of this stuff from Fleming more than they're using various plot threads as things to bounce off of). But otherwise I actually think it's quite nice and important that the people making these films care about the source material. Still having the DNA from Fleming's material is just as integral to a Bond film as anything else, even if it's not a straightforward adaptation.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    The writers in the Bond films is not that different from the Bond continuation authors and the comic writers (Dynamite) as well, they can't rely on Fleming anytime, they need to create something original, of course, but still retaining the Fleming spirit and style.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The writers in the Bond films is not that different from the Bond continuation authors and the comic writers (Dynamite) as well, they can't rely on Fleming anytime, they need to create something original, of course, but still retaining the Fleming spirit and style.

    I would say the films have had the best plots and stories out of any of the continuations in the last 40 years or so.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The writers in the Bond films is not that different from the Bond continuation authors and the comic writers (Dynamite) as well, they can't rely on Fleming anytime, they need to create something original, of course, but still retaining the Fleming spirit and style.

    The video game creators (particularly writers) have mostly noticed this. Maybe Project 007 will be different.
  • edited September 9 Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The writers in the Bond films is not that different from the Bond continuation authors and the comic writers (Dynamite) as well, they can't rely on Fleming anytime, they need to create something original, of course, but still retaining the Fleming spirit and style.

    I would say the films have had the best plots and stories out of any of the continuations in the last 40 years or so.

    I've only read one of the Dynamite comics, in this case Solstice. That actually had a bit of Fleming material in it - M asking Bond for a personal favour, calling him 'James' uncharacteristically. They do something interesting with that broad idea. I liked it a lot.

    But I agree, the films have better ideas than the continuation novels. Even Benson - who genuinely understands Fleming's work to the point he's something of an expert on them - often falls flat for me as a Bond writer.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 9 Posts: 6,296
    The hildebrand rarity is still there.

    Yes and they could easily reboot Milton Krest. Might be a bit too close to reality, though.

    An updating of this story a la TLD would have fit nicely between QoS and SF.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The writers in the Bond films is not that different from the Bond continuation authors and the comic writers (Dynamite) as well, they can't rely on Fleming anytime, they need to create something original, of course, but still retaining the Fleming spirit and style.

    I would say the films have had the best plots and stories out of any of the continuations in the last 40 years or so.

    I've only read one of the Dynamite comics, in this case Solstice. That actually had a bit of Fleming material in it - M asking Bond for a personal favour, calling him 'James' uncharacteristically. They do something interesting with that broad idea. I liked it a lot.

    But I agree, the films have better ideas than the continuation novels. Even Benson - who genuinely understands Fleming's work to the point he's something of an expert on them - often falls flat for me as a Bond writer.

    Writing any form of James Bond is probably honestly the most thankless job in Bond history. I think many of them would agree. I find it ironic that some of the recent Bond writers are from my generation, (Millennials, Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Kim Sherwood as far as I know). A lot of the rest of the continuation writers (books, movies and video games) are from the Silent and Baby Boomer generations. It'll be interesting to see where the writers are from in the future.
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