Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,340
    Well, Peter you didn't like Brosnan but you like Craig.

    Fans can hope things get better.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Well, Peter you didn't like Brosnan but you like Craig.

    Fans can hope things get better.

    You're not understanding. I have said Brosnan isn't my favourite Bond, but he was the right man at the right time, Deke.

    You really look at things as black or white, eh?

    You do realize that two things can be true at the same time, yes?

    And, just FYI, there are a few more Bonds than Craig and Brosnan. I think I've expressed my enjoyment for ALL of the Bonds. But ,someone has to come last, and, yes, that's Brosnan, for me. I'm not asking for you to agree or disagree. But, I can still enjoy some of Brosnan's performances, most notably in TND, Goldeneye, and parts throughout DAD and TWINE.

    It's nuance Deke. As I posted before: do I love everything about the series and think it's perfect. No. But I do believe it is the best and highest quality series ever to hit the screens, especially after 62 years. No one can boast this kind of longevity, period. And to think it's not just quantity in output, it IS quality (whether I respond to a particular actor/film or not (that's on me and my tastes, but I can still see the elevated experience the series has given worldwide audiences).

  • Posts: 1,340
    Why do you think that others cannot do the same?

    As you say, it is not black and white.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Why do you think that others cannot do the same?

    As you say, it is not black and white.

    Did you read the posts @DEKE_RIVERS ? Did you read them? I was having discussions with a few members about people (not unlike you), that mostly complain about the series; who write articles and do podcasts, hating on the series and the producers, and; who don’t speak too highly about EoN or where Bond is moving (as if they know. Like you, they presume the worst— as you continually do (you’re not hoping for the best, Deke; according to your own posts, there are no signs of hope or optimism (you don’t expect another good film from EoN?!! Okay….)).

    These aren’t constructive conversations.

    They’re angry and miserable. And it lacks in any positivity or expressing love for the series they (you) are supposedly fans of.

    But don’t worry, Deke, you’ll still have the classic, NSNA.

    Anyways, I’d suggest you read posts properly before accusing anyone of anything.

    Or better yet, you and me are oil and water. I disagree with practically every thing you post (if I can even understand what point you’re attempting to make), and I’m sure you feel the exact same way about me. Every day it takes me great effort not to reply to everything you write, and I often fail. So, why don’t we be as good as we possibly can: stop replying or sticking your nose in my posts and I’ll do the same. It only ends badly and it’s not a good look for me or you. I likely won’t ever agree with anything you say. And I’ll make the same assumption about you agreeing with me (the difference is: I don’t care whether you agree or disagree). I think you’re negative and a very good sh!t-disturber. So, with that, let’s virtually shake hands, offer each other the best, then steer clear of each other. You may feed off of negativity. I don’t. Makes me queasy.

    Good luck 👍🏻 Deke.
  • edited October 9 Posts: 4,139
    I'm sure there are people who don't find the recent Bond films to be their favourites. And that's fine. We all have our opinions and they're rarely black and white.

    But to be honest, from what I've seen/read, there is definitely a minority of Bond 'fans' who likely haven't really loved these film since the 70s (if that, seeing how many don't actually like the Moore era). I don't think they're on these forums incidentally.

    I do think one of the great things about the Bond films are that they've gone through so many different interpretations. And everyone gravitates towards different ones. On and off these forums I know people who really dig Brosnan and Dalton's Bond movies. I know plenty who gravitate towards Moore over any of the others too. I love that it's not a given for everyone that, say, Sean Connery is the best Bond or that his era was perfect/definitive. Or that Daniel Craig is the only Bond actor whose films are worth watching (or indeed on the flip side of that that his films are horrid instalments past CR, and are antithetical to what Bond is). There are so many different opinions and interests when it comes to this franchise. Heck, there are so many different ages of fans on this forum alone who have different experiences of these movies/being introduced to them, and often I don't think any of us understand how cool that is. I dunno, I'm not opposed to complaining about things I don't like, but after a point I think it's also worth looking at what I do enjoy and get out of from these films (even if they aren't my favourite Bond instillments). Personally, if I wasn't bothered with Bond films anymore or truly enjoyed them anymore I likely wouldn't watch them in the cinemas or really keep up to date with it as I do. I wouldn't see the point.

    I'd say let those who feel the need to complain about Bond... well, complain. This franchise is much larger than I think some people realise in terms of its fans, and quite a few got as lot out of the recent films.
  • Posts: 1,340
    I like the Craig era more than Brosnan's but that doesn't mean it doesn't have lows. Asking for unconditional love is too much.

    I want another Casino Royale but for some reason it's hard for them to get to that level.
  • edited October 9 Posts: 4,139
    I like the Craig era more than Brosnan's but that doesn't mean it doesn't have lows. Asking for unconditional love is too much.

    I want another Casino Royale but for some reason it's hard for them to get to that level.

    I don't think anyone's asking for unconditional love. And for me they did surpass CR in the Craig era, namely with SF. By quite a bit actually. Some would disagree with me, but it's not an uncommon opinion either.

    Anyway, we'll never have another CR. Just like we'll never have another FRWL or GE, or whichever Bond movie you can think of.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'm sure there are people who don't find the recent Bond films to be their favourites. And that's fine. We all have our opinions and they're rarely black and white.

    But to be honest, from what I've seen/read, there is definitely a minority of Bond 'fans' who likely haven't really loved these film since the 70s (if that, seeing how many don't actually like the Moore era). I don't think they're on these forums incidentally.

    I do think one of the great things about the Bond films are that they've gone through so many different interpretations. And everyone gravitates towards different ones. On and off these forums I know people who really dig Brosnan and Dalton's Bond movies. I know plenty who gravitate towards Moore over any of the others too. I love that it's not a given for everyone that, say, Sean Connery is the best Bond or that his era was perfect/definitive. Or that Daniel Craig is the only Bond actor whose films are worth watching (or indeed on the flip side of that that his films are horrid instalments past CR, and are antithetical to what Bond is). There are so many different opinions and interests when it comes to this franchise. Heck, there are so many different ages of fans on this forum alone who have different experiences of these movies/being introduced to them, and often I don't think any of us understand how cool that is. I dunno, I'm not opposed to complaining about things I don't like, but after a point I think it's also worth looking at what I do enjoy and get out of from these films (even if they aren't my favourite Bond instillments). Personally, if I wasn't bothered with Bond films anymore or truly enjoyed them anymore I likely wouldn't watch them in the cinemas or really keep up to date with it as I do. I wouldn't see the point.

    I'd say let those who feel the need to complain about Bond... well, complain. This franchise is much larger than I think some people realise in terms of its fans, and quite a few got as lot out of the recent films.

    Agreed @007HallY , disagreements and criticisms are healthy and educating. I’ve had some of my most rigid perspectives changed by having really constructive disagreements with some of our members. But I kept myself open to the disagreement and in the process have seen certain opinions of mine radically altered.

    I never was the biggest Moore fan (a very strong bias was handed down to me via my father (a die hard Connery fan). Discussions with mtm were enlightening and Moore’s solidly locked as my third favourite Bond.

    Most of us here are pretty fair. We like what we like. We don’t like what we don’t like. We discuss and debate. And most conversations are supremely interesting and, reading through them, I get new ideas from you guys and, even if I don’t agree, I can respect these wildly different perspectives.

    I even pop into the video game thread. I don’t play these games. I tried with my son, and I suck at them. But I go on the thread anyways and read what the gamers are saying.

    I’m not a fan of the continuation novels and stopped reading them some time ago, but I read through those posts and learn what’s going on

    In short, this little site can be very educational about all things James Bond and I am deeply impressed and indebted to a vast number of you (smart, intelligent thoughts, most being dosed with plenty of humour)… This really is an awesome community (and perhaps why my patience for hearing negativity repeated over and over, eventually grates (criticism and negativity are vastly different things).
  • Posts: 1,340
    007HallY wrote: »
    I like the Craig era more than Brosnan's but that doesn't mean it doesn't have lows. Asking for unconditional love is too much.

    I want another Casino Royale but for some reason it's hard for them to get to that level.

    I don't think anyone's asking for unconditional love. And for me they did surpass CR in the Craig era, namely with SF. By quite a bit actually. Some would disagree with me, but it's not an uncommon opinion either.

    Anyway, we'll never have another CR. Just like we'll never have another FRWL or GE, or whichever Bond movie you can think of.


    Oh, I don't mean the same movie. I want them to improve their game.

    I'm not a fan of Sam Mendes but at least they tried with him.
  • Posts: 4,139
    007HallY wrote: »
    I like the Craig era more than Brosnan's but that doesn't mean it doesn't have lows. Asking for unconditional love is too much.

    I want another Casino Royale but for some reason it's hard for them to get to that level.

    I don't think anyone's asking for unconditional love. And for me they did surpass CR in the Craig era, namely with SF. By quite a bit actually. Some would disagree with me, but it's not an uncommon opinion either.

    Anyway, we'll never have another CR. Just like we'll never have another FRWL or GE, or whichever Bond movie you can think of.


    Oh, I don't mean the same movie. I want them to improve their game.

    I'm not a fan of Sam Mendes but at least they tried with him.

    Fair. But there'll always be those who think they have surpassed CR (or whichever film you can think of). And I suspect they always try and improve their game with each film anyway.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    I think it would be cool if they started making loose adaptations of some of the graphic novels. Granted, most of them are bad, but if I were making the next few Bond films I'd be very interested in loosely adapting Eidolon and Agent of Spectre. There's some fantastic writing sprinkled into these two stories IMO.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    peter wrote: »
    I was a huge fan of the show SMALLVILLE, but at a certain point there were choices and a direction made that made me no longer enamored with the show. I stopped watching, not by choice, but rather because I forgot to catch the episodes as they aired. When I realized that, I didn’t miss it. It went onto do four more seasons, but I never stuck around to keep watching or participate in discussion forums. I had other interests worth my time. The idea of investing so much time on something you fell out of love with just sounds… wasteful.

    Absolutely agree @MakeshiftPython ... Either some of these people enjoy being miserable and it gives them some kind of purpose, or they just can't give up Bond (like being unable to give up a first love: eventually your affections grow a little twisted; better to let things go and move on. Life has a lot to offer).

    This seems to be a phenomenon on the internet since the mid-2010s, which is why ragebait is such a big thing. That there are folks who get something out of feeling indignant, because it makes them feel righteous to a degree. It’s why we see the term “objective opinion”, to assess an art you don’t like but articulate it in a way that makes it sound factual, therefore the filmmakers are objectively at fault. Because its not enough to have a personal opinion, it has to all be on the makers.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    I was a huge fan of the show SMALLVILLE, but at a certain point there were choices and a direction made that made me no longer enamored with the show. I stopped watching, not by choice, but rather because I forgot to catch the episodes as they aired. When I realized that, I didn’t miss it. It went onto do four more seasons, but I never stuck around to keep watching or participate in discussion forums. I had other interests worth my time. The idea of investing so much time on something you fell out of love with just sounds… wasteful.

    Absolutely agree @MakeshiftPython ... Either some of these people enjoy being miserable and it gives them some kind of purpose, or they just can't give up Bond (like being unable to give up a first love: eventually your affections grow a little twisted; better to let things go and move on. Life has a lot to offer).

    This seems to be a phenomenon on the internet since the mid-2010s, which is why ragebait is such a big thing. That there are folks who get something out of feeling indignant, because it makes them feel righteous to a degree. It’s why we see the term “objective opinion”, to assess an art you don’t like but articulate it in a way that makes it sound factual, therefore the filmmakers are objectively at fault. Because its not enough to have a personal opinion, it has to all be on the makers.

    You nailed it. I guess I’m so out of it, and lacking in interest of this craziness, that i don’t think I’ve ever heard the term rage-bait, lol. If I have, it never stuck. But I won’t forget it now!
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited October 9 Posts: 556
    peter wrote: »
    I was a huge fan of the show SMALLVILLE, but at a certain point there were choices and a direction made that made me no longer enamored with the show. I stopped watching, not by choice, but rather because I forgot to catch the episodes as they aired. When I realized that, I didn’t miss it. It went onto do four more seasons, but I never stuck around to keep watching or participate in discussion forums. I had other interests worth my time. The idea of investing so much time on something you fell out of love with just sounds… wasteful.

    Absolutely agree @MakeshiftPython ... Either some of these people enjoy being miserable and it gives them some kind of purpose, or they just can't give up Bond (like being unable to give up a first love: eventually your affections grow a little twisted; better to let things go and move on. Life has a lot to offer).

    This seems to be a phenomenon on the internet since the mid-2010s, which is why ragebait is such a big thing. That there are folks who get something out of feeling indignant, because it makes them feel righteous to a degree. It’s why we see the term “objective opinion”, to assess an art you don’t like but articulate it in a way that makes it sound factual, therefore the filmmakers are objectively at fault. Because its not enough to have a personal opinion, it has to all be on the makers.

    Sounds like you're describing all debate, online or not, anybody who participates in it, subconscious or not, enjoys the feeling of self-righteousness that comes with it. The difference is I'm not going to get up on my high horse and pretend that's not the case with me.
  • BMB007 wrote: »
    Yeah, it looks like it's over. And just like that, my interest in Bond 26 has plummeted.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    I like Nolan. But to be honest, I never thought it was going to be him. I can't be that delusional.
  • I like Nolan. But to be honest, I never thought it was going to be him. I can't be that delusional.

    I still struggle to think of what Nolan would bring that hasn’t already been introduced in the Craig era. Now is the time for drastic reinvention and I don’t think Nolan was going to deliver that.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    I like Nolan. But to be honest, I never thought it was going to be him. I can't be that delusional.

    I still struggle to think of what Nolan would bring that hasn’t already been introduced in the Craig era. Now is the time for drastic reinvention and I don’t think Nolan was going to deliver that.

    Yeah. Correct. Although, if it were him, I would have still looked forward to the film. But yeah, Maybe EON might be thinking they already have a Nolan-esque Bond film in Skyfall.
  • edited October 9 Posts: 579
    I like Nolan. But to be honest, I never thought it was going to be him. I can't be that delusional.
    Why would it have been delusional to believe that there was a chance when we know that he and EON have met many times + that Barbara loves his work and he loves Bond??
  • edited October 9 Posts: 4,139
    Well, probably because he said 'I'm not directing the next Bond film' last year.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    So Matt Damon not being Felix Leiter in 2026 is a given?

    matt-damon-what.gif
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    I like Nolan. But to be honest, I never thought it was going to be him. I can't be that delusional.
    Why would it have been delusional to believe that there was a chance when we know that he and EON have met many times + that Barbara loves his work and he loves Bond??

    Oh, I can't really pinpoint to be honest. But I just felt it wasn't going to be Nolan. Maybe because EON had just finished the very sombre era of Craig...a style Nolan is also known for. Plus, Nolan is a big name. So he might clash with Barbara like Danny Boyle.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 9 Posts: 5,970
    I mean personally I can understand wanting to see Nolan direct a James Bond, but I don't really understand why that not being that case would be so negative as to plummet your interest? Bond 26's success doesn't depend on him? There's so many directors out there who could do something interesting?

    On a more general note though, I do often feel like, along with actors (looking at you Henry Cavill and Aidan Turner), when someone does something that's vaguely akin to 007, they have to direct a James Bond film or be James Bond himself? Is it possible that it's a subconscious way to anticipate success and be comforted, rather than having to wait and be surprised by the outcome?
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited October 10 Posts: 2,016
    I think the best way to be a happy James Bond fan, is not clinging onto a personal preference or idea firmly...even if it's something one really likes, because they might not be the same with Barbara's ideas...so one doesn't suffer a Bondian heartbreak.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited October 10 Posts: 4,629
    I was a huge fan of the show SMALLVILLE, but at a certain point there were choices and a direction made that made me no longer enamored with the show. I stopped watching, not by choice, but rather because I forgot to catch the episodes as they aired. When I realized that, I didn’t miss it. It went onto do four more seasons, but I never stuck around to keep watching or participate in discussion forums. I had other interests worth my time. The idea of investing so much time on something you fell out of love with just sounds… wasteful.

    As someone who is a BIG Superman fan, I could never get into Smallville. It just went on WAY TOO LONG, as you said. Plus, some of the comments Tom Welling said about it just being a job, and intentionally NOT wanting to ever wear the Superman suit, is unforgivable. At least Supergirl has some range, and a more passionate lead actress, in this case. That's my controversial opinion of the day!
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    To be brutally honest, James Page isn’t helping either. If that warrants me a ban, so be it.

    Who is James Page? I'm not sure who this person is?

    I believe one of the founders of MI6-HQ if I’m not mistaken.

    Ahhh, yes, I've heard those guys on podcasts before and they seem to passive-aggressively go after EoN and Craig.

    I don't get it. I don't get this attitude. Once again, do I think EoN is perfect? Nope. Was Cubby some kind of god? Nope, he treated Connery like crap and had a few out there suggestions. Is Broccoli and modern day EoN perfect? Nope. Do I adore all of their films and choices? Not at all, but they make wayyyyyy more correct choices, than they do poor ones.

    I love the entire series, warts and all. The first six films are magic. And every era has very high-highs, especially when compared to their so-called lows (which still have value in them!)

    EoN provides consistent and quality entertainment from the very beginning, to now...And they really do know what they're doing, and far more than any James Page, or Spy Command, or me, or anyone... for good or bad, these are the best people and they know the very tricky ins and outs of making huge, worldwide, tentpole films.

    I agree @peter Bond is a tough love situation for me. I'm mostly happy with the previous 71 years of Bond; books, comics, movies and video games. But as is typical fandom, I do have the right to have minor criticisms from time to time. Yes, Cubby should have let Connery have more creative control. Cubby was a businessman first, and some people view him as flawless in his Bond direction. Barbara Broccoli gave Daniel Craig, Judi Dench and Purvis and Wade too much creative control and love, honestly. But at the same time, she was always fighting an uphill battle with MGM's money troubles. And nobody could have been a better guide for that time for Bond. Meanwhile, Richard Maibaum thought he was the only person who could write a Bond story. While he always tried to put Fleming in his stories, he tended to think his material was the best. And we all know better. Blame him for the Solex in TMWTGG. He criticized LALD for its drug plot when he did the same thing in LTK. All the multiple Bond actors have a generally mixed bag of movies at the heart of the series. So, no one was a GOD when making these films. They always just set out to make the best movie (or book or video game) as possible. Generally, all three formats succeeded.
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The ironic thing as well is that getting Barbara and Michael fired will only make the process take even longer... if you want Bond 26 sooner, maybe don't consider cutting the head of the snake at the first hurdle?

    Anyway, I also just want to highlight those comments we literally got from Jennifer Salke in an article today that state; "We have a good and close relationship with EON and Barbara and Michael. We are not looking to disrupt the way those wonderful films are made. For us, we are taking their lead." She also said “the global audience will be patient. We don’t want too much time between films, but we are not concerned at this point.”

    The global audience will be patient?

    Has she read MI6 lately?

    Or the cranky boomer who writes Spy Command?

    😂

    I sorta get where boomers are coming from. The oldest of that generation are pushing 80, so they’re very conscious of the fact that they only have a few films to be able to see before knocking on death’s door. They’d be lucky to see the complete run of the next actor playing Bond. Then there’s those worried NTTD may be the last they see of Bond, which features him dying, again reminding them of their own mortality when they just want good old escapism.

    We’re now at a point where we’re seeing the first generation of fans passing away. I see this a lot with Star Trek fans selling off merch before they pass, same with Bond. It’s a real bummer, so I can empathize with those feeling bitter, especially after seeing their childhood hero die right before their eyes.

    I’d wish for more folks to try adopting a positive mental attitude, but if wishes were horses…

    Yes, there are fair points for patience and wanting new material as soon as possible. But, we all know that James Bond will return. As for now, there's always new Bond material from literary, cinematic and gaming that many people forget about. Plus, Baby Boomers have hurt my generation in more ways than one!
  • Posts: 1,985
    @MaxCasino - What is your generation? How has it been hurt by boomers?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 10 Posts: 6,296
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @MaxCasino - What is your generation? How has it been hurt by boomers?

    All the debt! (I'm Gen X.)

    Maibaum was amazing. As integral to establishing the '60s Bond as Connery, Barry, Cubby, Harry, Hunt, Young, and yes, Hamilton. He may have made some unkind comments over his career, but didn't Connery as well?
  • edited October 10 Posts: 2,266
    Bond 26 is going to be massive with or without Nolan, especially coming after the Craig era; which despite the ramblings of a few diehard fans (including myself at times), is the most successful era of Bond we’ve seen outside of the 60’s. Nolan has stated in the past that the only way he could see himself directing a Bond film is if EON were in dire need of a reinvention and simply put, I don’t believe EON is in that position. They’ve proven that they can put out films that are just as good, if not better than some of Nolan’s own output. So I have no reason to suspect they’re in desperate need of him, and vice versa as well.

    Also I feel like if EON REALLY wanted Nolan, they would’ve had him LONG ago…
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @MaxCasino - What is your generation? How has it been hurt by boomers?

    All the debt! (I'm Gen X.)

    HA! I was waiting for someone to say it.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited October 10 Posts: 4,629
    echo wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @MaxCasino - What is your generation? How has it been hurt by boomers?

    All the debt! (I'm Gen X.)

    Maibaum was amazing. As integral to establishing the '60s Bond as Connery, Barry, Cubby, Harry, Hunt, Young, and yes, Hamilton. He may have made some unkind comments over his career, but didn't Connery as well?

    Yep, I'm a Millennial. All the debt from the same politicians (on both sides) getting reelected, and voted in by and from the Baby Boomers generation! I'm sorry to make it personal, but you asked! Some real life Bond villains from that generation in (mainly) American politics!

    As for Maibaum, I'll always be grateful that he worked on the series. Same with Purvis and Wade. But as I said above, it's a tough love situation. And Maibaum knew how to fight back! So, thankfully, not every idea is always great!

    As for Nolan @007ClassicBondFan sometimes even fans don't want to take part in the creative process with their favorites. I think Nolan wants to watch a Bond movie again before making one, honestly.
  • Posts: 1,985
    I'm not taking it personally. I'm not responsible. I vote, pay my taxes, live in the same country as you (assuming you're American.) Nobody has given me a damn thing, I've been the recipient of nothing, and I don't feel entitled.

    And no shortage of real life Bond villains today who aren't boomers. Musk, Zuck, and Bozos doing anything to help?
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