Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,165
    I’m sure a cleverer soul than I could adapt the TMTTGG intro in such a way that it works as an introduction to a new continuity but also could be head-canoned into the Craig timeline if you so choose.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    Good points @HildebrandRarity. Yes, I believe you're right about TMWTGG having to meet it's Christmas deadline and couldn't be shifted. Something to do with all the major cinemas having already been alotted and counted for. It's also worth remembering that blockbusters like The Towering Inferno and The Godfather Part II were also released the same month as TMWTGG which must have contributed to its overall drop in tickets sold.

    I don't know whether the contract clause barring EON from adapting Fleming’s TSWLM original novel still stands, or whether the Fleming estate would feel more relaxed about giving them go ahead to use it now.

    A Bond movie told from the perspective of another character who meets James Bond would certainly be a unique and interesting way to introduce a new James Bond into the world.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,327
    bondsum wrote: »
    Good points @HildebrandRarity. Yes, I believe you're right about TMWTGG having to meet it's Christmas deadline and couldn't be shifted. Something to do with all the major cinemas having already been alotted and counted for. It's also worth remembering that blockbusters like The Towering Inferno and The Godfather Part II were also released the same month as TMWTGG which must have contributed to its overall drop in tickets sold.

    I don't know whether the contract clause barring EON from adapting Fleming’s TSWLM original novel still stands, or whether the Fleming estate would feel more relaxed about giving them go ahead to use it now.

    My confidence in the writers and producers at EON is at an all time low at the moment, and as long as they remain in charge I don't think we'll see Fleming's material properly adapted on screen. They had the chance to do it big time with NTTD and the YOLT novel, but they bottled it at the last hurdle, giving us something cheap and nasty in its place.

    Ever since GE, we haven't had any Fleming material adapted properly, other than the CR reboot, which now looks glaringly out of place compared to the rest of the films under Babs reign. 8 movies now with nothing, other than the odd nod or reference, or some retcon crap where they give us stuff like Bond's childhood home, or Blofeld as his long lost brother. Utter garbage!

    In all these years they haven't seen fit to go back to the books, and I don't see why they would start now. It wouldn't be so tragic if we had brilliant scripts and films instead, but in all 8 movies under Babs, 4 of them reside at the bottom of my list (with DAD right at the bottom of the barrel), and at least 3 of the others sit not far above that. CR is the only bona fide Bond classic we have had.

    I'm living in hope that the producers step down now and bring some new blood in, and are not scared to go back to the novels. Either that, or we get an actor like Dalton who persuades the producers and writers that this is what he wants. They seem to listen to actors more than anyone else. Just look at Craig's reign.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited October 2021 Posts: 3,152
    Not sure Babs will ever again be as attached to, or as invested in, a Bond actor as she was with Craig.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    bondsum wrote: »
    I don't know whether the contract clause barring EON from adapting Fleming’s TSWLM original novel still stands, or whether the Fleming estate would feel more relaxed about giving them go ahead to use it now.

    A Bond movie told from the perspective of another character who meets James Bond would certainly be a unique and interesting way to introduce a new James Bond into the world.

    I like that, I could imagine that feeling quite fresh, yeah.
  • Venutius wrote: »
    Not sure Babs will ever again be as attached to, or as invested in, a Bond actor as she was with Craig.

    Exactly why I think she will be willing to give lots of creative freedom to a big name director such as Chris Nolan.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6,287
    Ugh, no Nolan. That's just asking for more franchise bloat.

    Bond 26 should be sleek and swift...I don't want to see any holdovers of actors, not a one. And I don't want any Vesper or Madeleine mentioned or even contemplated. You need M of course. But Q and Moneypenny only as needed.

    Think of it as an alternate universe Bond.
  • Posts: 15,114
    I think Nolan's appeal is kind of redundant now: they did whatever they could have done with him during the Craig era.
  • Posts: 7,507
    echo wrote: »
    Ugh, no Nolan. That's just asking for more franchise bloat.

    Bond 26 should be sleek and swift...I don't want to see any holdovers of actors, not a one. And I don't want any Vesper or Madeleine mentioned or even contemplated. You need M of course. But Q and Moneypenny only as needed.

    Think of it as an alternate universe Bond.

    Tenet really soured my impression of Nolan. It was a skillfully made action film, sure, but I didn't care for the characters at all. It was a soulless affair with an overly complicated plot and no heart. It's not what I want for B26.
  • Posts: 6,709
    "Soulless" is what Nolan would bring to Bond, you're right @jobo. And one could forget the "sexiness" as well. It would be frigid.
  • I think you all better get used to the idea of a Nolan directed Bond 26, because it's not unlikely at all that he will get the job. He has talked to Barbara and Michael several times over the years, he has an idea, he has indicated several times that he wants to direct the first movie of a new actor and with Oppenheimer getting released in summer 2023, it seems he will be free exactly when EON will be looking for the director.

    And even if you dislike him, look at the bright side: Nolan directing means Nolan writing, and Nolan writing means no Purvis and Wade.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I think you all better get used to the idea of a Nolan directed Bond 26, because it's not unlikely at all that he will get the job. He has talked to Barbara and Michael several times over the years, he has an idea, he has indicated several times that he wants to direct the first movie of a new actor and with Oppenheimer getting released in summer 2023, it seems he will be free exactly when EON will be looking for the director.

    And even if you dislike him, look at the bright side: Nolan directing means Nolan writing, and Nolan writing means no Purvis and Wade.

    Haha, that’s one way of looking at it ;)) Even though I am sceptical of whether his Bond would be something for me, I can't deny I would be curious to see what his vision for Bond would be. I suppose it would at least be highly original and probably unique. I sincerely hope that if they go down that route they will get someone like Waller-Bridge to liven up the dialogue, although I suppose it's unlikely Nolan would allow it...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    bondsum wrote: »
    Good points @HildebrandRarity. Yes, I believe you're right about TMWTGG having to meet it's Christmas deadline and couldn't be shifted. Something to do with all the major cinemas having already been alotted and counted for. It's also worth remembering that blockbusters like The Towering Inferno and The Godfather Part II were also released the same month as TMWTGG which must have contributed to its overall drop in tickets sold.

    I don't know whether the contract clause barring EON from adapting Fleming’s TSWLM original novel still stands, or whether the Fleming estate would feel more relaxed about giving them go ahead to use it now.

    My confidence in the writers and producers at EON is at an all time low at the moment, and as long as they remain in charge I don't think we'll see Fleming's material properly adapted on screen. They had the chance to do it big time with NTTD and the YOLT novel, but they bottled it at the last hurdle, giving us something cheap and nasty in its place.

    I would say what they did had more bottle than the YOLT novel. Fleming didn't even have Bond find out about his kid.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I think you all better get used to the idea of a Nolan directed Bond 26, because it's not unlikely at all that he will get the job. He has talked to Barbara and Michael several times over the years, he has an idea, he has indicated several times that he wants to direct the first movie of a new actor and with Oppenheimer getting released in summer 2023, it seems he will be free exactly when EON will be looking for the director.

    And even if you dislike him, look at the bright side: Nolan directing means Nolan writing, and Nolan writing means no Purvis and Wade.

    Nolan needs his brother to be a co(main)-writer… if not, please note the half-baked messiness of Tenet.

    Nolan needs a leash on him.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 480
    You can also note the half-baked messiness of the third season of Westworld, written by brother Jonathan and his wife Lisa Joy.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    peter wrote: »
    I think you all better get used to the idea of a Nolan directed Bond 26, because it's not unlikely at all that he will get the job. He has talked to Barbara and Michael several times over the years, he has an idea, he has indicated several times that he wants to direct the first movie of a new actor and with Oppenheimer getting released in summer 2023, it seems he will be free exactly when EON will be looking for the director.

    And even if you dislike him, look at the bright side: Nolan directing means Nolan writing, and Nolan writing means no Purvis and Wade.

    Nolan needs his brother to be a co(main)-writer… if not, please note the half-baked messiness of Tenet.

    Nolan needs a leash on him.

    Yeah I really didn't enjoy Tenet on any level; I don't want him doing Bond.
  • Posts: 631
    echo wrote: »
    Ugh, no Nolan. That's just asking for more franchise bloat.

    Bond 26 should be sleek and swift...I don't want to see any holdovers of actors, not a one. And I don't want any Vesper or Madeleine mentioned or even contemplated. You need M of course. But Q and Moneypenny only as needed.

    Think of it as an alternate universe Bond.

    I think so too. Cut the run time, cut the bloat, cut the emotional baggage, trim the support characters back a bit, and create a good villain.

    Even cut the budget back a bit, perhaps. Nice and lean.

    Still I’m not Eon and they can do whatever they want
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I think you all better get used to the idea of a Nolan directed Bond 26, because it's not unlikely at all that he will get the job. He has talked to Barbara and Michael several times over the years, he has an idea, he has indicated several times that he wants to direct the first movie of a new actor and with Oppenheimer getting released in summer 2023, it seems he will be free exactly when EON will be looking for the director.

    And even if you dislike him, look at the bright side: Nolan directing means Nolan writing, and Nolan writing means no Purvis and Wade.

    Nolan needs his brother to be a co(main)-writer… if not, please note the half-baked messiness of Tenet.

    Nolan needs a leash on him.

    Yeah I really didn't enjoy Tenet on any level; I don't want him doing Bond.

    Absolutely in agreement. I can’t imagine EoN hiring him (and his out-of-this-world genius).
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 418
    patb wrote: »
    there is an irony in that Bond is meant to be about cutting edge, futuristic tech and yet we see him driving a car that's around 55 years old. Imagine Connery driving a car build in 1910! Got to move forward in future IMHO

    Yes, imagine that...

    Casino Royale (1953),
    "Bond's car was his only personal hobby. One of the last of the 41/2-litre Bentleys with the supercharger by Amherst Villiers, he had bought it almost new in 1933 and had kept it in careful storage through the war. ... It was a battleship-grey convertible coupe, which really did convert, and it was capable of touring at ninety with thirty miles an hour in reserve."

    Only 20 years old, but still
  • Posts: 631
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I think you all better get used to the idea of a Nolan directed Bond 26, because it's not unlikely at all that he will get the job. He has talked to Barbara and Michael several times over the years, he has an idea, he has indicated several times that he wants to direct the first movie of a new actor and with Oppenheimer getting released in summer 2023, it seems he will be free exactly when EON will be looking for the director.

    And even if you dislike him, look at the bright side: Nolan directing means Nolan writing, and Nolan writing means no Purvis and Wade.

    Nolan needs his brother to be a co(main)-writer… if not, please note the half-baked messiness of Tenet.

    Nolan needs a leash on him.

    Yeah I really didn't enjoy Tenet on any level; I don't want him doing Bond.

    I enjoyed Batman Begins and thought The Prestige was good (though not a patch on the novel). Both of those films are ages old, though.

    I don’t think he’s right for Bond. Everything he does strikes me as being too calculated. Everything seems planned. There’s not much spontaneity, no feeling of “this is great fun, let’s roll with it” or “we’re making this up as we go along” which I think Bond films need.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    So I've said before I'd like Bond 26 to take some notes from what The Batman is doing, with a younger James Bond but a non-origin story.

    I also think the film should go for a more harmonious take between the classic films and the modern serious tone we were given with the Craig-era, which I actually think No Time To Die achieved, but couldn't fully commit to because of the fact it needed to continue the elements that Spectre left for them - understandably so.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    edited October 2021 Posts: 480
    Nolan's limitations as a filmmaker are getting more and more obvious. Sure, the guy is extremely talented, but most of his recent output devotes an awful lot of time to expository speeches, the kind of stuff for which he relied for a long time on Michael Caine. To make it look it isn't what it actually is, he will cut the scene, move the conversation to a different place, except that it's the same character who's just moved from point c to point d in his talk.

    That's also partly because the starting point for his films is often some visual or narrative gimmick he's fascinated with (the synced timelines for Inception, the space time paradoxes for Interstellar, the inversion of temporality in Tenet), that he needs to justify in the plot. Hence the belaboured explanations. It was ludicrous in Tenet, as we spend repeatedly a long time listening to technobabble to prepare for some action sequence that's usually underwhelming. That's a long way from the relatively simple device that was at the heart of Memento, for instance.

    And yet, Nolan can still be effective when he isn't lost in these concepts. The best action scene from Tenet may be the fight in the kitchen, the only one that doesn't involve the sci-fi stuff.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 418
    On the one hand, I can appreciate the Craig-Bond era as something different, one that explored new territory for the character and expanding the Bond universe.

    On the other hand, I worry that the franchise is currently run by people who don't really relate to the character as originally created, and who actually cannot comprehend why anyone would choose to become a secret agent. A position which must eventually become untenable (or at least passe) if the next Bond continues to question the morals and purpose of his profession, continues to be given reason to distrust the motives or judgement of his employers, and, as a result. continues to rebel, resign or retire every second movie.

    As others have mentioned before, at some point Bond has to get back to being someone who believes in what he is doing and trusts his superiors are doing the right thing, however I'm not very confident that this will actually happen, given the current political climate of distrust, fueled by the ubiquitous internet in it's various forms (All the evils schemes of Elliott Carver / Rupert Murdoch are nothing when compared to the the unintentional damage a social media search algorithm can cause apparently).

    IMHO it's time to move away from "Bourne Bond" and back towards "True Lies" Bond
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,366
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I think you all better get used to the idea of a Nolan directed Bond 26, because it's not unlikely at all that he will get the job. He has talked to Barbara and Michael several times over the years, he has an idea, he has indicated several times that he wants to direct the first movie of a new actor and with Oppenheimer getting released in summer 2023, it seems he will be free exactly when EON will be looking for the director.

    And even if you dislike him, look at the bright side: Nolan directing means Nolan writing, and Nolan writing means no Purvis and Wade.

    Nolan needs his brother to be a co(main)-writer… if not, please note the half-baked messiness of Tenet.

    Nolan needs a leash on him.

    Yeah I really didn't enjoy Tenet on any level; I don't want him doing Bond.

    I enjoyed Batman Begins and thought The Prestige was good (though not a patch on the novel). Both of those films are ages old, though.

    I don’t think he’s right for Bond. Everything he does strikes me as being too calculated. Everything seems planned. There’s not much spontaneity, no feeling of “this is great fun, let’s roll with it” or “we’re making this up as we go along” which I think Bond films need.

    Yeah, it's very cold stuff.

    I agree that Batman Begins was good (I think the best of his Batman films), but oddly I feel like it's been slightly forgotten now. Casino Royale obviously felt slightly derivative at the time (although I think they were pretty much being developed at the same time) but CR feels to me that it's the better-remembered or loved of the two to the public, and I think it's the better film too. Certainly CR still gets shown at prime time on TV, whereas I can't remember the last time Begins got a showing on a major channel. Would Batman Begins get a big Secret Cinema event planned around it? I don't think it would.
    Nolan's limitations as a filmmaker are getting more and more obvious. Sure, the guy is extremely talented, but most of his recent output devotes an awful lot of time to expository speeches, the kind of stuff for which he relied for a long time on Michael Caine. To make it look it isn't what it actually is, he will cut the scene, move the conversation to a different place, except that it's the same character who's just moved from point c to point d in his talk.

    That's also partly because the starting point for his films is often some visual or narrative gimmick he's fascinated with (the synced timelines for Inception, the space time paradoxes for Interstellar, the inversion of temporality in Tenet), that he needs to justify in the plot. Hence the belaboured explanations. It was ludicrous in Tenet, as we spend repeatedly a long time listening to technobabble to prepare for some action sequence that's usually underwhelming. That's a long way from the relatively simple device that was at the heart of Memento, for instance.

    And yet, Nolan can still be effective when he isn't lost in these concepts. The best action scene from Tenet may be the fight in the kitchen, the only one that doesn't involve the sci-fi stuff.

    I think Tenet is legitimately just badly-directed. Nothing more, nothing less. If I don't care what's happening and I'm not engaged, and I don't understand it, I blame the director for not making me care.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Batman Begins got eclipsed by TDK, plain and simple. At least in the public eye. CR still stands on its own and on top of that it influenced the rest of the Craig era.

    But given how NTTD ended, I'd say Bond can literally go anywhere afterwards. For better or for worse.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Batman Begins got eclipsed by TDK, plain and simple. At least in the public eye.

    Yep, it did, although to me it's worse and I never watched it again.
  • skropper13skropper13 United States
    Posts: 117
    As much as I loved Craig’s iteration of bond and the continuity of it all (minus Spectre’s climax and story in general) I would say the next bond has to find something new and fresh. I don’t believe doing yet another reboot of his career would be wise and I don’t think continuing Craig’s story in any way would be a good idea. I think the only real option is to start completely a new, with bond being somewhere in the middle of his career. From there if you want to make a few movie story arc I am totally fine with that, but for the love of god, please plan it out so we don’t have to paste together garbage to fix large plot holes lol.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 480
    The big issue in this arc was that they desperately shoehorned Blofeld and SPECTRE into some script as soon as they got the rights back, either because it allowed Eon to get Sony Pictures to foot the bill from the Kevin McClory's estate or because they feared that Craig would stop at four films and didn't want to keep this for the next guy. And due to the terribly misguided foster brother thing, Blofeld turned out to be underwhelming.

    Most of the extra running time from NTTD is there to address some of the dubious choices from Spectre. As Blofeld couldn't be taken seriously anymore as the big villain, they had to introduce Safin, who disposes of SPECTRE within minutes. He's definitely not the most colourful or interesting villain, even in the Craig years, but he looks enough of a threat, rather than some guy who just throws tantrums or brags that he had his real name changed for some reason. As Madeleine had been underdeveloped in Spectre (I'd say that Séverine may have made more of an impression in Skyfall, even if her part is significantly shorter), they also needed to reintroduce her in NTTD to make her significant.

    Anyway, there's an interesting thing for Bond 26.
    If NTTD had got some regular ending where Bond gets the girl, expectations for Bond 26 would have been slightly underwhelming. It would have been another Bond film but without they guy who was extremely popular in the part.
    With the polarizing ending, people who loved it assume that the franchise will make more bold choices again, while people who hate it are eager for a "return to normalcy", whatever that means. This could be a New Coke/Classic Coke situation. Getting back to some "regular" Bond will be an event in itself.
  • Posts: 16,153
    mtm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Batman Begins got eclipsed by TDK, plain and simple. At least in the public eye.

    Yep, it did, although to me it's worse and I never watched it again.

    I revisited it recently and realized it's my least favorite of the trilogy.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,617
    We should ask first who's returning for Bond 26. Here's my own speculation.

    Barbara Broccoli: definitely
    Michael Wilson: unlikely
    Daniel Craig: nope
    Ralph Fiennes, Naomi Harris, Ben Whishaw and Rory Kinnear: unlikely, but they may transplant one of them in a new continuity, just as they did for Judi Dench

    Cary Joji Fukunaga: could go either way
    Martin Campbell: would definitely be interesting, but he'd be at least 80 by the time Bond 26 is released. Unlikely
    Hans Zimmer: likely
    Purvis and Wade: could go either way. They have survived so many crises that they're basically the cockroaches of this franchise. As soon as something goes wrong, they get called back.
    Phoebe Waller-Bridge: was invited by Craig, but she seems to have adjusted rather well, up to the point she got a proper credit. Likely.
    Daniel Kleinman: could go either way. The titles for NTTD looked like his swan song
    Mark Tildesley: could go either way. But they also have Dennis Gassner (who's in his 70s)
    bondsum wrote: »
    Some really good suggestions here. Please keep them coming. I will add that Eon didn't reboot the series with Craig to then revert back to what immediately preceded it. Eon will use this once-in-a-while golden opportunity to create something different going forwards, but still retain something that is essentially Fleming's Bond. Personally, I like the inclusions of either Viv Michel, Gala Brand or a recurring Mary Goodnight in the new timeline.

    As for the staff, I agree with you on all of them. I also could see Gregg Wilson taking a bigger producing job soon.

    As for characters, there are a number of them that I would love to see get adapted or readapted. The three that you mentioned, in particular Mary Goodnight recurring. It would be nice to see a proper adaption of her, not trapped by Guy Hamilton and Tom Mankiewicz dumb bimbo-ness. Other characters I would love to see comeback are: Auric Goldfinger, Alec Trevelyan, Irma Bunt, Tiger Tanaka, Mr. Big, René Mathis, Kincade, for my top 007, in no order. As for new characters to be adapted, I agree with your 2 choices. I have 007 choices of my own, too make the next 007 unique. May Maxwell, Sixtine, Loelia Ponsonby, Charmain Bond, General Grubozaboyschikov, Nena Blofeld, Felicity Willing, just to name a few.

    I’m looking at the future of James Bond from a view of the characters. There are great modern stories that could be adapted or told with all of them.
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