Where does Bond go after Craig?

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Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,698
    CrabKey wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    For me a better story is the vengeful spouse angle. Bond has killed one partner and the other is out to get Bond.

    So like TSWLM but with the main villain instead of the Bond girl? I like it!

    For me the revenge angle is such a minor part of TSWLM, that I actually forget it. I'd like that angle to be the main story.

    Incredible how if TSWLM were made as Craig's last film, that plot line would be competing with about 6 others for space. It's so much more effective when the story beats are given the room to breathe.

    But Crab just said how he barely notices it in TSWLM, and I'd tend to agree. It's a nice idea but it's barely in the film really, I wouldn't say it's hugely effective.
  • Posts: 4,355
    CrabKey wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    For me a better story is the vengeful spouse angle. Bond has killed one partner and the other is out to get Bond.

    So like TSWLM but with the main villain instead of the Bond girl? I like it!

    For me the revenge angle is such a minor part of TSWLM, that I actually forget it. I'd like that angle to be the main story.

    I don't necessarily agree about TSWLM, but I'd be up for a vengeful spouse villain. It's a new angle on past ideas and on paper it sounds interesting.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,500
    It's called subtlety, something we find hard to appreciate nowadays because we're so used to "DIE BLOFELD DIE" and "Its always been me James, Cuckoo!"
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited December 2024 Posts: 2,212
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 4,355
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited December 2024 Posts: 2,212
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do. I believe Waltz had something, but needed better writing for his character. Or maybe his hype was too much? Just like Malek's?
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious and he made his brief scene in SP look.
  • Posts: 4,355
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do.
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious he made his brief scene in SP look.

    If you mean making White Blofeld, I think the issue with that character was he was always a field guy. It'd be a bit like revealing Largo was Blofeld all along. Something about it feels... off... If you mean Christensen as Blofeld just in SP, I can see that working, agreed.

    I really don't mind what they did with Blofeld. I think NTTD needed its own villain, and it's not as if Waltz did anything better with the character in this one.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,212
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do.
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious he made his brief scene in SP look.

    If you mean making White Blofeld, I think the issue with that character was he was always a field guy. It'd be a bit like revealing Largo was Blofeld all along. Something about it feels... off... If you mean Christensen as Blofeld just in SP, I can see that working, agreed.

    I really don't mind what they did with Blofeld. I think NTTD needed its own villain, and it's not as if Waltz did anything better with the character in this one.

    Well, I just think we needed a better Blofeld portrayal, though. This is the reason, most fans think Quantum alone, being the evil organization of Craig's Bond era would have been better. Because honestly, to me too, Quantum felt more mysterious and suited for Craig's Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,259
    My impression has always been that Waltz’ schedule was just not flexible enough so they basically wrote his part based on the time they could use him. Knowing Bond dies at the end, they probably didn’t want his character to outlive Bond, so that’s why he’s done away with.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 974
    Neither Quantum nor the rebooted Spectre were very interesting, imo. The original Spectre had an interesting setup with slightly larger-than-life agents who had a dangerous internal dynamic that was built up over several films. Spectre gave us Hinx, then killed him off too quickly to have built up any tension.
  • CrabKey wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Jack O’Connell is 5’7”, so unless EON want the press to massacre the next Bond in a similar way they did with Craig.
    Connor Swindells could be a potential to consider.

    According to posts I've read here, Bond can be anything. (But not short?)
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Jack O’Connell is 5’7”, so unless EON want the press to massacre the next Bond in a similar way they did with Craig.
    Connor Swindells could be a potential to consider.

    According to posts I've read here, Bond can be anything. (But not short?)


    Tom Cruise is vertically challenged and movie magic makes him look bigger than reality
  • Posts: 2,044
    @Scaramanga1974 - I don't disagree that films can make actors appear taller than they are. But the subject of height does come up a lot. Vertically challenged is a term I don't care for because it is essentially suggests a disability, even though most who use that term probably don't mean it that way.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,697
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Scaramanga1974 - I don't disagree that films can make actors appear taller than they are. But the subject of height does come up a lot. Vertically challenged is a term I don't care for because it is essentially suggests a disability, even though most who use that term probably don't mean it that way.

    It's called a joke. Vertically challenged is a joke. It's not supposed to make anyone feel anything other than a slight sense of humor.
  • Posts: 2,009
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).
    While I was happy NTTD had a lot of elements from the YOLT novel in the film, the proper time to faithfully adapt the novel was in the 60s by making OHMSS film first then making YOLT. Biggest mistake of the Bond franchise by not doing that.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited December 2024 Posts: 4,726
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do.
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious he made his brief scene in SP look.

    If you mean making White Blofeld, I think the issue with that character was he was always a field guy. It'd be a bit like revealing Largo was Blofeld all along. Something about it feels... off... If you mean Christensen as Blofeld just in SP, I can see that working, agreed.

    I really don't mind what they did with Blofeld. I think NTTD needed its own villain, and it's not as if Waltz did anything better with the character in this one.

    Well, I just think we needed a better Blofeld portrayal, though. This is the reason, most fans think Quantum alone, being the evil organization of Craig's Bond era would have been better. Because honestly, to me too, Quantum felt more mysterious and suited for Craig's Bond.

    Honestly, using the visual description of YOLT Blofeld would be great for the next version. Have him have a gold tooth, and a big mustache. Being married to Irma Bunt wouldn't be bad either. There's a way your idea could work @mtm in an obvious and faithful way for the Bond mythology. A physical fight with Bond in Samurai armor could make for a great physical fight between the two. Waltz really isn't a physical actor, I don't really blame him, but the writing. I feel that the character of Blofeld can only go up from here.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).
    While I was happy NTTD had a lot of elements from the YOLT novel in the film, the proper time to faithfully adapt the novel was in the 60s by making OHMSS film first then making YOLT. Biggest mistake of the Bond franchise by not doing that.

    Yes, that is. Peter Hunt directing, Richard Maibaum writing and George Lazenby having more experience becoming a better actor, it could have been great. Telly Savalas hopefully would come back as Blofeld. It's a shame that Ilse Steppat passed away, she would have been great to comeback. The series could have also had good character development with Marc-Ange Draco, that Ian Fleming couldn't unfortunately provide.
  • Posts: 2,009
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do.
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious he made his brief scene in SP look.

    If you mean making White Blofeld, I think the issue with that character was he was always a field guy. It'd be a bit like revealing Largo was Blofeld all along. Something about it feels... off... If you mean Christensen as Blofeld just in SP, I can see that working, agreed.

    I really don't mind what they did with Blofeld. I think NTTD needed its own villain, and it's not as if Waltz did anything better with the character in this one.

    Well, I just think we needed a better Blofeld portrayal, though. This is the reason, most fans think Quantum alone, being the evil organization of Craig's Bond era would have been better. Because honestly, to me too, Quantum felt more mysterious and suited for Craig's Bond.

    Honestly, using the visual description of YOLT Blofeld would be great for the next version. Have him have a gold tooth, and a big mustache. Being married to Irma Bunt wouldn't be bad either. There's a way your idea could work @mtm in an obvious and faithful way for the Bond mythology. A physical fight with Bond in Samurai armor could make for a great physical fight between the two. Waltz really isn't a physical actor, I don't really blame him, but the writing. I feel that the character of Blofeld can only go up from here.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).
    While I was happy NTTD had a lot of elements from the YOLT novel in the film, the proper time to faithfully adapt the novel was in the 60s by making OHMSS film first then making YOLT. Biggest mistake of the Bond franchise by not doing that.

    Yes, that is. Peter Hunt directing, Richard Maibaum writing and George Lazenby having more experience becoming a better actor, it could have been great. Telly Savalas hopefully would come back as Blofeld. It's a shame that Ilse Steppat passed away, she would have been great to comeback. The series could have also had good character development with Marc-Ange Draco, that Ian Fleming couldn't unfortunately provide.

    If I had it my way they do OHMSS with Connery in 67 with the same cast and have the same cast return in 69 with a proper adaptation of YOLT with Connery as well. IMO had Connery be able to do OHMSS first and had a done that story I feel it would encourage him to finish the story in YOLT. Plus he would have had a lot of leverage to get the pay he wanted for his 6th movie cause the story had to be finished.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,414
    My impression has always been that Waltz’ schedule was just not flexible enough so they basically wrote his part based on the time they could use him. Knowing Bond dies at the end, they probably didn’t want his character to outlive Bond, so that’s why he’s done away with.

    Plus, "Good thing he's not really your brother" is the funniest line in the movie.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,726
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do.
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious he made his brief scene in SP look.

    If you mean making White Blofeld, I think the issue with that character was he was always a field guy. It'd be a bit like revealing Largo was Blofeld all along. Something about it feels... off... If you mean Christensen as Blofeld just in SP, I can see that working, agreed.

    I really don't mind what they did with Blofeld. I think NTTD needed its own villain, and it's not as if Waltz did anything better with the character in this one.

    Well, I just think we needed a better Blofeld portrayal, though. This is the reason, most fans think Quantum alone, being the evil organization of Craig's Bond era would have been better. Because honestly, to me too, Quantum felt more mysterious and suited for Craig's Bond.

    Honestly, using the visual description of YOLT Blofeld would be great for the next version. Have him have a gold tooth, and a big mustache. Being married to Irma Bunt wouldn't be bad either. There's a way your idea could work @mtm in an obvious and faithful way for the Bond mythology. A physical fight with Bond in Samurai armor could make for a great physical fight between the two. Waltz really isn't a physical actor, I don't really blame him, but the writing. I feel that the character of Blofeld can only go up from here.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).
    While I was happy NTTD had a lot of elements from the YOLT novel in the film, the proper time to faithfully adapt the novel was in the 60s by making OHMSS film first then making YOLT. Biggest mistake of the Bond franchise by not doing that.

    Yes, that is. Peter Hunt directing, Richard Maibaum writing and George Lazenby having more experience becoming a better actor, it could have been great. Telly Savalas hopefully would come back as Blofeld. It's a shame that Ilse Steppat passed away, she would have been great to comeback. The series could have also had good character development with Marc-Ange Draco, that Ian Fleming couldn't unfortunately provide.

    If I had it my way they do OHMSS with Connery in 67 with the same cast and have the same cast return in 69 with a proper adaptation of YOLT with Connery as well. IMO had Connery be able to do OHMSS first and had a done that story I feel it would encourage him to finish the story in YOLT. Plus he would have had a lot of leverage to get the pay he wanted for his 6th movie cause the story had to be finished.

    I respect that. However, I feel that the OHMSS we got is pretty much perfect as it is.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,212
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do.
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious he made his brief scene in SP look.

    If you mean making White Blofeld, I think the issue with that character was he was always a field guy. It'd be a bit like revealing Largo was Blofeld all along. Something about it feels... off... If you mean Christensen as Blofeld just in SP, I can see that working, agreed.

    I really don't mind what they did with Blofeld. I think NTTD needed its own villain, and it's not as if Waltz did anything better with the character in this one.

    Well, I just think we needed a better Blofeld portrayal, though. This is the reason, most fans think Quantum alone, being the evil organization of Craig's Bond era would have been better. Because honestly, to me too, Quantum felt more mysterious and suited for Craig's Bond.

    Honestly, using the visual description of YOLT Blofeld would be great for the next version. Have him have a gold tooth, and a big mustache. Being married to Irma Bunt wouldn't be bad either. There's a way your idea could work @mtm in an obvious and faithful way for the Bond mythology. A physical fight with Bond in Samurai armor could make for a great physical fight between the two. Waltz really isn't a physical actor, I don't really blame him, but the writing. I feel that the character of Blofeld can only go up from here.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).
    While I was happy NTTD had a lot of elements from the YOLT novel in the film, the proper time to faithfully adapt the novel was in the 60s by making OHMSS film first then making YOLT. Biggest mistake of the Bond franchise by not doing that.

    Yes, that is. Peter Hunt directing, Richard Maibaum writing and George Lazenby having more experience becoming a better actor, it could have been great. Telly Savalas hopefully would come back as Blofeld. It's a shame that Ilse Steppat passed away, she would have been great to comeback. The series could have also had good character development with Marc-Ange Draco, that Ian Fleming couldn't unfortunately provide.

    If I had it my way they do OHMSS with Connery in 67 with the same cast and have the same cast return in 69 with a proper adaptation of YOLT with Connery as well. IMO had Connery be able to do OHMSS first and had a done that story I feel it would encourage him to finish the story in YOLT. Plus he would have had a lot of leverage to get the pay he wanted for his 6th movie cause the story had to be finished.

    I respect that. However, I feel that the OHMSS we got is pretty much perfect as it is.

    Yeah. I think no matter what, OHMSS was simply destined to be great.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,698
    echo wrote: »
    My impression has always been that Waltz’ schedule was just not flexible enough so they basically wrote his part based on the time they could use him. Knowing Bond dies at the end, they probably didn’t want his character to outlive Bond, so that’s why he’s done away with.

    Plus, "Good thing he's not really your brother" is the funniest line in the movie.

    Just a random thought, but I'm always puzzled they're surprised Blofeld has died: they know that James is covered in Spectre-killing nanobots from his trip to Cuba, so he'd have killed Blofeld by touching him even if Madeline hadn't been there. They really shouldn't have let Bond in! :D
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,500
    mtm wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    My impression has always been that Waltz’ schedule was just not flexible enough so they basically wrote his part based on the time they could use him. Knowing Bond dies at the end, they probably didn’t want his character to outlive Bond, so that’s why he’s done away with.

    Plus, "Good thing he's not really your brother" is the funniest line in the movie.

    Just a random thought, but I'm always puzzled they're surprised Blofeld has died: they know that James is covered in Spectre-killing nanobots from his trip to Cuba, so he'd have killed Blofeld by touching him even if Madeline hadn't been there. They really shouldn't have let Bond in! :D

    Great point and reason #9645 why the film doesn't work on a script level. P+W need to be permanetly ostracized from the writers room, they're only getting worse as time goes on.
  • edited January 1 Posts: 4,355
    That’s more a slight ‘logic hole’ (if it even is one) you get with Bond movies in general. Most people really don’t realise it in the moment, and I suspect pretty much all that bring it up (me included) were either told about it second hand or thought about it long after the film.

    Why does Bouvar dress up as his own widow to attend his fake funeral in TB? No idea. Why doesn’t Bond just blow up the sunken sub with the ATEC in FYEO rather than bothering to retrieve it? Doesn’t matter. What’s the point in Bond faking his own death in YOLT (and publicising it) when he’s known to SPECTRE and is easily identified anyway? Who cares. Thinking about Bond films too logically, especially long after watching these films, is a depressingly pointless thing to do. Having them isn’t necessary an indication of bad writing (in fact ‘getting away’ with them by gripping the audience in the story is a sign of good filmmaking).
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,981
    The nanobots in Cuba act specifically to kill those at the meeting, those individuals. (There is no single Spectre strain of DNA to target. They appear to be a pretty diverse group.)

    Nanobots to kill Blofeld came later. Again, specifically designed for him as a target.

  • Posts: 2,009
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).

    I'd also say Safin was better suited as the main villain. Waltz's Blofeld wasn't very interesting, and I actually find Safin trying to destroy SPECTRE due to a personal vendetta much more compelling.

    Yeah. But honestly, when I heard Waltz was returning, I thought they were going to give him more to do.
    Also, I think EON might have missed out on not making Jesper Christensen Blofeld, he would have been wonderful. Look how serious he made his brief scene in SP look.

    If you mean making White Blofeld, I think the issue with that character was he was always a field guy. It'd be a bit like revealing Largo was Blofeld all along. Something about it feels... off... If you mean Christensen as Blofeld just in SP, I can see that working, agreed.

    I really don't mind what they did with Blofeld. I think NTTD needed its own villain, and it's not as if Waltz did anything better with the character in this one.

    Well, I just think we needed a better Blofeld portrayal, though. This is the reason, most fans think Quantum alone, being the evil organization of Craig's Bond era would have been better. Because honestly, to me too, Quantum felt more mysterious and suited for Craig's Bond.

    Honestly, using the visual description of YOLT Blofeld would be great for the next version. Have him have a gold tooth, and a big mustache. Being married to Irma Bunt wouldn't be bad either. There's a way your idea could work @mtm in an obvious and faithful way for the Bond mythology. A physical fight with Bond in Samurai armor could make for a great physical fight between the two. Waltz really isn't a physical actor, I don't really blame him, but the writing. I feel that the character of Blofeld can only go up from here.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sometimes, I wonder why EON didn't just adapt Fleming's YOLT fully. Since NTTD was meant to be a dark Bond film. They should have simply made Blofeld the main villain, get him his samurai suit and let him and Bond do the fight. Then make Safin his henchman and still make him obsessed with Madeleine.

    It's not really a novel you can adapt faithfully for various reasons. You really need the element of Blofeld having killed Tracy. It's a great novel but not one where much plot happens until the third act. Still, they've obviously used it (I'd actually say more of it - at least in terms of broad ideas being adapted - went into SF than NTTD).
    While I was happy NTTD had a lot of elements from the YOLT novel in the film, the proper time to faithfully adapt the novel was in the 60s by making OHMSS film first then making YOLT. Biggest mistake of the Bond franchise by not doing that.

    Yes, that is. Peter Hunt directing, Richard Maibaum writing and George Lazenby having more experience becoming a better actor, it could have been great. Telly Savalas hopefully would come back as Blofeld. It's a shame that Ilse Steppat passed away, she would have been great to comeback. The series could have also had good character development with Marc-Ange Draco, that Ian Fleming couldn't unfortunately provide.

    If I had it my way they do OHMSS with Connery in 67 with the same cast and have the same cast return in 69 with a proper adaptation of YOLT with Connery as well. IMO had Connery be able to do OHMSS first and had a done that story I feel it would encourage him to finish the story in YOLT. Plus he would have had a lot of leverage to get the pay he wanted for his 6th movie cause the story had to be finished.

    I respect that. However, I feel that the OHMSS we got is pretty much perfect as it is.

    Oh don't get me wrong it is a very perfect movie and I love every bit of it. I just wish they would have done a proper YOLT adaptation as a follow up.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,698
    The nanobots in Cuba act specifically to kill those at the meeting, those individuals. (There is no single Spectre strain of DNA to target. They appear to be a pretty diverse group.)

    Nanobots to kill Blofeld came later. Again, specifically designed for him as a target.

    Yeah I guess I'll have to go with that although it seems a bit funny he's the one member of Spectre they left out of the mix. Mind you, Primo is surprisingly laissez-faire about getting close to Bond, and those he's touched, considering he could presumably be killed by Bond's touch too! :)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,981
    mtm wrote: »
    The nanobots in Cuba act specifically to kill those at the meeting, those individuals. (There is no single Spectre strain of DNA to target. They appear to be a pretty diverse group.)

    Nanobots to kill Blofeld came later. Again, specifically designed for him as a target.

    Yeah I guess I'll have to go with that although it seems a bit funny he's the one member of Spectre they left out of the mix. Mind you, Primo is surprisingly laissez-faire about getting close to Bond, and those he's touched, considering he could presumably be killed by Bond's touch too! :)
    That seemed by design, Safin was recruiting Primo so he wasn't a mark. The nanobots were set up as a targeted weapon selectively used.

    The ego of a villain warrants Safin taking extra measures to kill Blofeld on his terms in a controlled way. Villainy.

  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 112
    It's called subtlety, something we find hard to appreciate nowadays because we're so used to "DIE BLOFELD DIE" and "Its always been me James, Cuckoo!"

    You do realise that "Die Blofeld die" comes from Fleming's novel, which was published over half a century ago?
    So much for your "nowadays" claim.

    Besides, the revenge plot angle in TSWLM is not subtle; being subtle would mean that the angle is still there even when they don't talk about it. With Bond and Anya happily getting into bed together at the end of the movie the filmmakers were straight up ignoring the plot angle, not making it subtle. It doesn't make any sense for Anya to go to bed with the man who killed her boyfriend a few days earlier.
  • edited January 1 Posts: 4,355
    mtm wrote: »
    The nanobots in Cuba act specifically to kill those at the meeting, those individuals. (There is no single Spectre strain of DNA to target. They appear to be a pretty diverse group.)

    Nanobots to kill Blofeld came later. Again, specifically designed for him as a target.

    Yeah I guess I'll have to go with that although it seems a bit funny he's the one member of Spectre they left out of the mix. Mind you, Primo is surprisingly laissez-faire about getting close to Bond, and those he's touched, considering he could presumably be killed by Bond's touch too! :)

    Didn't Primo/Borat (or whatever his name was) have to program it specifically with people's DNA? As he did for Bond/when he stole his toothbrush in Jamaica... I might be misremembering details of the film, but I always got the sense that was the basic idea (that there's a specificity meant for these targets. It's not like they could just randomly program 'SPECTRE agents' and have it kill them). It might just be a case where it's so ingrained into the storytelling that nothing about watching it in the moment seems odd.

    Anyway, it's a Bond movie, and certain logical fallacies can be forgiven as I said.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,981
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    The nanobots in Cuba act specifically to kill those at the meeting, those individuals. (There is no single Spectre strain of DNA to target. They appear to be a pretty diverse group.)

    Nanobots to kill Blofeld came later. Again, specifically designed for him as a target.

    Yeah I guess I'll have to go with that although it seems a bit funny he's the one member of Spectre they left out of the mix. Mind you, Primo is surprisingly laissez-faire about getting close to Bond, and those he's touched, considering he could presumably be killed by Bond's touch too! :)

    Didn't Primo/Borat (or whatever his name was) have to program it specifically with people's DNA? As he did for Bond/when he stole his toothbrush in Jamaica... I might be misremembering details of the film, but I always got the sense that was the basic idea (that there's a specificity meant for these targets. It's not like they could just randomly program 'SPECTRE agents' and have it kill them). It might just be a case where it's so ingrained into the storytelling that nothing about watching it in the moment seems odd.

    Anyway, it's a Bond movie, and certain logical fallacies can be forgiven as I said.
    One thing's for sure: we all need to watch NTTD again.
  • Posts: 2,044
    As Bouvar had assassinated two British agents, I always thought his funeral was intended to take off the heat and see who attended his funeral, which accounted for the disguise. But I do agree, logic often suffers in a Bond film.
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