Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 418
    Univex wrote: »
    Gary Oldman as M, btw. How cool would that be?

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    James Bond meets George Smiley!

    Surely the Universe would explode?

    Perhaps they could use this as a starting point for the plot?

    The Honourable Schoolboy (1977) George Smiley must reconstruct an intelligence service in order to run a successful offensive espionage operation to save the service from being dismantled by the government
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    I’ve come to hate the term “reboot” . There have been other characters in literature that have been adapted to film in unrelated incarnations, Sherlock Holmes being an obvious examples. Theses various takes on these characters we’re not referred to as “reboots”

    Bond should be no different. The Craig era was its own adaptation it was separate from what came before and what will come next. It’s time to move on.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Seve wrote: »
    You think that's a drawback? I'd call that an asset, I've always disliked recurring villains.
    I want the bad guys to be destroyed in whatever movie I watch and see new ones the next time around

    What you say about Moriarty isn't true at all, he was only originally introduced in order provide a character of suitable magnitude to kill Sherlock Holmes off in "the Final Problem"

    Wikipedia says "Despite only twice appearing in Doyle's original stories, later adaptations and pastiches have often given Moriarty greater prominence and treated him as Sherlock Holmes' archenemy."

    To be fair I should add that he is also "mentioned" in 5 other stories, mainly from "The Return of Sherlock Holmes".

    He doesn't appear in any of the 28 stories which make up "The Adventures of" and "The Memoirs of", other than the aforementioned "Final Problem", and by "The Casebook of" Conan-Doyle had clearly become bored with him and he is mentioned only once.

    "Doyle's original motive in creating Moriarty was evidently his intention to kill Holmes off. "The Final Problem" was intended to be exactly what its title says; Doyle sought to sweeten the pill by letting Holmes go in a blaze of glory, having rid the world of a criminal so powerful and dangerous that any further task would be trivial in comparison (as Holmes says in the story itself). Eventually, however, public pressure and financial troubles impelled Doyle to bring Holmes back.",
    The floor is all yours @Seve. Give us an indication of these new villians from movie to movie, including their motives and how they can relate to new audiences. One will do if you can't conjur any more.
  • We need a break of about 4 to 5 years to make sure they get it right. Dan Craig was the definitive Bond for me so I wouldn't mind time to build up the next guy.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,368
    We need a break of about 4 to 5 years to make sure they get it right. Dan Craig was the definitive Bond for me so I wouldn't mind time to build up the next guy.

    Yeah I think that's likely to be honest: it'll take 3 years to make the next film anyway but I'd imagine deciding where to go with it, getting a director and casting a new Bond may well add another year onto the process.
  • Posts: 6,709
    talos7 wrote: »
    I’ve come to hate the term “reboot” . There have been other characters in literature that have been adapted to film in unrelated incarnations, Sherlock Holmes being an obvious examples. Theses various takes on these characters we’re not referred to as “reboots”

    Bond should be no different. The Craig era was its own adaptation it was separate from what came before and what will come next. It’s time to move on.

    Hear, hear!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6,288
    I'll bet Barbara Broccoli asks Craig privately to weigh in before she chooses the next Bond.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 418
    bondsum wrote: »
    The floor is all yours @Seve. Give us an indication of these new villains from movie to movie, including their motives and how they can relate to new audiences. One will do if you can't conjure any more.

    Lol, ok. I'll give it a go

    Of course, we first need to recognise and acknowledge that, after all these years of Bond movies (and related genre films), we are unlikely to discover anything completely new and truly novel. The trick, as with most forms of human entertainment, is to mix up the same old ingredients in such a way that they appear somewhat novel again

    Well then, one obvious source, to look for inspiration from, would be current affairs.
    What are people actually afraid of in the World at the moment?
    Because if they are already feeling anxious in real life, it makes it all the easier to convince them to believe in the movie

    Hence many movies in recent about times have focused on distrust of secretive government agencies... however that can be counter productive when you protagonist is supposed to be a committed employee of one of these organisations and, in any case, I think Craig-Bond explored this side of things sufficiently in Skyfall.

    Then there is crypto-currency, could it be revealed as a dark-net, hacker plot to undermine the World economy?

    Or something to do with Internet / Social Media spying on us and controlling our lives?

    But anything computer related carries with it the difficulty of being too abstract and hard to portray in a tangible way on screen. Movie makers have struggled for years with how to make tapping on a keyboard visually stimulating, and failed for the most part. A briefcase full of money, a bar of gold or a bag of diamonds will always be more sexy than a electronic transfer. An old fashioned car chase, or a "pakour" chase on foot, will always trump tracing a mobile phone signal.

    How about a mad President planning a coup?
    Maybe a bit too close to the bone in the current environment...

    We also need to bare in mind that it seems like increasingly these days, a villain cannot be of any ethnic group other than perhaps East European, German or English, without risking accusations of racial stereotyping or demonising. So that rules China and North Korea out, and Arab terrorists have been done to death by now anyway.

    How about some sort of Eco terrorist / Anachist?
    World overpopulation is the real elephant in the room but no one is willing to talk about it. Exponential population growth is the greatest threat to mankind's survival!
    There are more people alive now than have lived during the rest of history put together!!
    In the long run we will never be able to produce enough food and in the short run most of the earths biodiversity will be destroyed!!!
    Our planet now faces a global extinction crisis never witnessed by humankind. Scientists predict that more than 1 million species are on track for extinction in the coming decades!!!!
    The more humans spread, the smaller other mammals get. Elephants, rhinos and hippos had better watch out!!!!!

    In that space, a villain with a virus could not be more topical
    But NTTD just did a villain with nanobots, which were going to do pretty much the same thing, even if his motive for doing so was a bit foggy, so maybe not

    Or how about climate change is revealed to be a manifestation of that old favourite, the weather control machine? The goal being the destruction of human civilisation, in order to degrade humanities ability to provide healthcare and grow food. (Of course animals will suffer to, but no villains plan is perfect!)

    I'm aware Bond Supervillains have contemplated wiping out large swathes of humanity before, notably during Roger Moore's tenure (TSWLM and MR), but that was in the 1970s, so perhaps it's time they came around again?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,368
    It might be a bit naff, but is there an Elliot Carver-style villain to be made in the form of a social media mogul who manipulates people and their voting through disinformation?
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    edited October 2021 Posts: 480
    mtm wrote: »
    It might be a bit naff, but is there an Elliot Carver-style villain to be made in the form of a social media mogul who manipulates people and their voting through disinformation?

    I've nearly submitted my take a few hours ago. It would be about a shady social media mogul à la Zuckerberg that Bond is supposed to investigate or to protect. But the expected twist wouldn't exactly occur. He's not even a convincing villain. He's just a slimy guy, washing his hands from the chaos he creates by letting people freely disinform others, as long as it brings profits to his company. Which would disgust Bond who would find him an uninteresting and unworthy opponent.

    Painting Zuckerberg as a proper James Bond villain would be building over a cliché that already exists among many people. These moguls aren't evil in the usual term. They contribute to evil because they don't want to see the full consequences of the networks they've created.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    To answer the thread question somewhat generally - I'd welcome (and expect) a return to some more simpler, standalone entries. As someone who is a massive fan of the Craig era, I think it would be far too soon to try to replicate any sort of relationship heavy story arcs. That said, it might feel somewhat empty if they were to just return to Brosnan-esque adventures. I think Skyfall is a good formula to follow that blends the best of both worlds.
  • What about a rogue US president aa villain?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,368
    What about a rogue US president aa villain?

    Yes, I was thinking that a high-ranking politician would be a good, brave way to go- obviously LALD did that but with such a tiny non-existent place that you might not even notice Kananga was the PM; but I guess a US President might be a bit on the nose! :)
  • Posts: 3,333
    Some good ideas there @Seve. I think the major reason why the producers and studios have stayed clear of real world politcis is that they're afraid they might alienate a large part of an audience of a certain country or ethnicity, which is why they've tended to focus on more ambiguous villians that are hellbent on world domination.

    After watching Grace Randolph's reaction and breakdown of NTTD, I'm convinced she's actually right in her prediction of the next 007 casting and the producer's wanting to go young for Bond 26. If you haven't watched it, she believes Josh O’Connor is probably the most likely candidate that the producers will go for. Just in case you aren't familiar with his work, Josh appeared in The Crown, for which he won a Golden Globe Award for Best Actor. He's currently aged 31 and is roughly just over 6 feet tall. Let's say this is true, then it would most likely mean we'd get a glimpes of Bond as a Royal Navy commando before accepting his Double O status. I realise that Connery was 32 when he appeared in Dr No, but the fundamental difference was that Connery looked and acted much older than his years. Whilst not classically handsome, O’Connor did play Prince Charles with his sticky-out ears, plus he's also a highly considered up and coming thespian. I suppose O’Connor would be what Tom Holland is to the MCU, just 6 years older.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I only know one thing: enough with the “old” Bond.
  • Only younger Bond if he's a decent actor and looks the part. I don't want EON to pander the Fast and Furious/Marvel crowd
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Agreed.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 73
    mtm wrote: »
    What about a rogue US president aa villain?

    Yes, I was thinking that a high-ranking politician would be a good, brave way to go- obviously LALD did that but with such a tiny non-existent place that you might not even notice Kananga was the PM; but I guess a US President might be a bit on the nose! :)
    And there was Guy Haines, advisor of the UK Prime Minister, in QoS.
    I think using politicians as villains would open too many cans of worms which EON doesn't want to open. A rogue US president (or president/prime minister of any existing country tbh) would be too much on the nose. But a rogue government official/ political candidate, unaffiliated to any known party, could work.
    EON did portray Lord's Resistance Army as villainous, but everyone in their right mind knows they're b******s.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I had long thought there is something in Mr. Big's network of whispers in the book being somehow updated through social media/modern technology. My approach to an LALD inspired movie - meaning not doing a straigh-up LALD adaptation but approaching it the way DAD approached Moonraker - would be based on that, with the villain being someone who runs some kind of social media influencer-Multi Level Marketing scam verging on being a cult, which leads to followers being very protective of him/her and thus the filmmakers can create a scenario that is similar to two white guys venturing into 1950s Harlem without all the problematic undertones that chapter now has.
    No idea how to go further with it. :))
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    edited October 2021 Posts: 480
    Bond 26: A Momentary Lapse of Reason

    Gun barrel shot (standard)
    Iris opening to interior, night, a bedroom
    The light is turned off. An unidentified woman wakes up in shock, after experiencing an obvious nightmare. She gets up, while the light is still turned off, and goes to the bathroom, obviously to drink a glass of water. When she's in the lobby, she notices light under the bathroom door, with also some noise. We also hear her heart beating faster.

    The camera switches to POV, as she opens the door. There's a masculine silhouette standing in the bathtub behind some semi-transparent curtain. The silhouette notices that someone has entered the room.

    The woman's heart beats even faster. The shower stops. The man opens the curtain.

    It's a soapy JAMES BOND (Pierce Brosnan). He smiles

    BOND – You seem haggard, Moneypenny. Bad dream?

    The camera switches to a reverse angle. We finally see the face of the woman. It's MISS MONEYPENNY (Samantha Bond). She looks shocked and confused.

    MONEYPENNY – You're... alive?

    BOND – Well... Of course. I thought I had given you enough evidence last night. (Pauses for comical effect and blinks) But if you want more evidence, we have all the time in the world. Until this afternoon. M's retirement party. I can't believe she's actually leaving. By the way, not a word about the little comedy sketch we're putting together with Q, Tanner and Robinson. I want it to be a surprise. (pauses, looks considerate) You don't look well, actually.

    MONEYPENNY – James, I've just had the weirdest nightmare. You were suddenly a blonde, you looked rough and bulky, I was also a black woman, a former field agent who eventually shot you, but I wasn't there at the start of your missions. You fell in love, resigned, but she was a double agent and got killed, and you were reinstated. Q had learnt to use computers, and he didn't look like the guy from the ministry of silly walks. Then M died. Then you had a foster brother who was the head of a secret criminal organization. You fell in love once again, resigned, then you stopped trusting her, then Felix died, then you discovered you had a kid, then you... died!

    BOND (nodding in disapproval) – Moneypenny... Moneypenny... You know it can't be true. I've had a vasectomy. (reassuring) You know, all of this happened to the other fella. (blinks at the camera with a Roger Moore smile).

    He then hugs Moneypenny, covering her with water and soap.

    Cut to credits, accompanied by the song "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" by Ed Sheeran.
  • Posts: 3,333
    One thing I would do is drop the Aston Martin and return Bond to his former Bentley. The new Bentley doesn't look too dissimilar to the old DB5 anyway.
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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    If a reboot went with an origin story, there's a readymade route for Bond from Special Forces to MI6:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15157602/the-increment-secret-unit-government/

  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 418
    Bond 26: A Momentary Lapse of Reason

    Lol, very good

  • edited October 2021 Posts: 624
    I'd ideally like the next movie to carry over at maximum, Ralph Fiennes. Harris and Whishaw are too tied to DC to make it not awkward to be thrust into another timeline.

    Please, NO origin story. I think it would be fun to make fans go, "Wait, does this follow DAD?" even if it does not.

  • Posts: 1,630
    bondsum wrote: »
    One thing I would do is drop the Aston Martin and return Bond to his former Bentley. The new Bentley doesn't look too dissimilar to the old DB5 anyway.
    2021-bentley-continental-gt-speed-exterior.jpg

    Nice ! But Bond's Bentley was sprightly, lighter, smaller. This one is GORGEOUS but not for Bond. Rather, they should deliver one to meeeeeeeeee.....
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 418
    No emotional baggage please

    Intro via the pre-credit sequence, as a fully formed mature character

    Any backstories provided via incidental dialogue or flashback

    Good faith between Bond and his employers and politicians

    Standalone charismatic villain, with an interesting lair and menacing henchmen, who dies at the end of the movie

    Great action, exotic locations, high life, new car...


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  • 9IW9IW
    Posts: 59
    I like @Seve ’s ideas. I am not opposed to working in shagging Moneypenny though. I think any computer/currency type plot just does not translate well to the screen. I agree, younger Bond and a new cast. Fresh start. Perhaps a world leader assassination spree. Bond gets sent out to kill this guy. It develops that he is under the control of an organization. Pick one. Make up a new one. Now theres pressure to capture the guy, not kill him. Bond wants to do it all. Catch him, interrogate him, kill him, then go after the organization. Maybe it develops that the PM is next. Now MI5 thinks its their show and sends out there own guy. But wait, it IS Mi5’s guy thats doing the shooting. The race is on to kill that guy and expose who he is, or kill the guy and hide who he is. Maybe that includes shutting up Bond. Permanently.

    So we shall have some bad ass chase scenes and Ana de Armas gets to wear that dress again for our single NTTD shout out along with a lot more dresses and less, but I digress.

    So the organization behind this has a diabolical motivation for this? You know what it is? No, seriously, tell me, I have no clue, I just made this up.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Seve wrote: »
    No emotional baggage please

    Intro via the pre-credit sequence, as a fully formed mature character

    Any backstories provided via incidental dialogue or flashback

    Good faith between Bond and his employers and politicians

    Standalone charismatic villain, with an interesting lair and menacing henchmen, who dies at the end of the movie

    Great action, exotic locations, high life, new car...
    =D>
    Post of the week. This is exactly what I (and I believe most other fans) want too now from a Bond film.

    I'm done with retcon family backstory crap that has sod all to do with Fleming, or Bond.
  • Personally, I'm not against a new origin story (I even think it could be a good way to distance a new continuity from the Craig era and to build a solid foundation not just for the next actor, but also those who may follow him), however it may be redundant so soon after IO Interactive's Project 007. I really don't think Eon will want to repeat what has just been done in a video game.
  • Posts: 2,162
    It would be nice to freshen up the main villains, which have all been a bit “single male” for the last few films.

    Maybe a husband and wife duo, or a pair of brothers or sisters? Have one bumped off at the end of the second act to make for a vengeful third act villain? Thinking out loud.
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