Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 24 Posts: 3,256
    It is really marked. I've had to headcanon it so that Bond himself has slipped into a persona in an attempt to draw out Blofeld and that's why he suddenly doesn't seem like Bond any more.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,508
    I never got the issue with that scene, he still seems like Bond to me. He's on the limit but that's sort of the point.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 736
    I don't know if its a good or bad thing but Daniel's Bond is so tonally all over the place personality wise over the course of his Bond films in a way that the other actors aren't.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 24 Posts: 17,508
    Well he develops and matures, yes.
    I'd say Connery's is more random: starts off brusque and unlikeable, course corrects to become more charming and suave, then becomes a sort of comedy caricature. Roger has three subtly distinct versions of his character for each of his directors; Pierce probably plays the most consistent characterisation which doesn't change much.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 14,108
    True, there's a change in Connery's Bond, but that is over the course of his 6 films. He doesn't just randomly act so different in one scene in one film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 24 Posts: 17,508
    I don't think Craig does either. It's not random, there's a pretty clear reason why he's agitated.
  • Posts: 622
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Although, what I learnt from NTTD is, a director can know his job, but doesn't know how to make a Bond film feel like a Bond film. If it ends up being Cuaron, I hope he understands this.

    Well, we know EON thinks he does, because they asked him to signed on the dotted line before in the past.

    Yeah. I really hope so. But you could argue that EON thought Fukunaga had the Bond feel, but he clearly didn't. But yeah, I have no doubt about Cuaron's skills and I would have much preferred him to Apted for TWINE. But it's always an added advantage for a director to understand James Bond. Like those Bondian moments where he does extraordinary things. What I like about James Bond is, he poses with a gun in the posters, but the action and moments aren't just about guns, but inventive stuffs. I think apart from the Matera sequence, NTTD lacked those moments a lot.

    Above all though, he basically co-direct with a star who openly said that he really didn’t know how to direct or write.

    What do you mean?

    In The Making of NTTD book, several people said that DC basically directed some scenes. Namely the Blofeld prison scene. Phoebe Waller-Bridge wrote that scene alone, apparently.

    No who directed, I loathe that sequence, how it’s written, how it’s acted, everything.

    Same here.

    As per the book:

    "Daniel had a lot of ideas for the first two monologues of that scene" says Fukunaga. "I think there were some things Bond wanted to say to Blofeld that did quite come out in the last film. Phoebe and I went through and edited it, but the bones of it are what Daniel wanted".

    Fukunaga is pictured on the set with Waltz in the book, so I dont think DC directed the scenes per say.

    FWIW I dont like the sequence, Craig's weird hand movements and overacting (yes I know we are aware of the heracles on his hands we dont need hitting over the head with it), and the dialogue isnt great nor the delivery of it. Cuckoo.

    As I said before and paraphrased from the book: Co-directed.

    That's not what co-directed means at all.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,769
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think Craig does either. It's not random, there's a pretty clear reason why he's agitated.

    You could say the same about any of Brosnans "pain face" scenes. That was motivated too.
  • We’ve seen agitated Bond before. Hell we’ve seen revenge driven Bond on at least two separate occasions. Craig during that scene was someone else entirely - and it wasn’t Bond.
  • edited March 24 Posts: 850
    I can’t believe people don’t like the Craig- Blofeld scene in NTTD. Acting of the highest order. For me it’s pure Fleming. Oh well. Each to their own.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 24 Posts: 14,108
    If only he were simply agitated. He's completely off the reservation in that scene, nothing about him there tallies up with how Bond is shown elsewhere in NTTD or the other Craig films. His speech, mannerisms... it's as if we are watching a different character entirely.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,508
    We’ve seen agitated Bond before. Hell we’ve seen revenge driven Bond on at least two separate occasions. Craig during that scene was someone else entirely - and it wasn’t Bond.

    Genuinely don't know what you mean, seems like the same guy to me.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,769
    If only he were simply agitated. He's completely off the reservation in that scene, nothing about him there tallies up with how Bond is shown elsewhere in NTTD or the other Craig films. His speech, mannerisms... it's as if we are watching a different character entirely.

    Craig was already checked out.
  • mtm wrote: »
    We’ve seen agitated Bond before. Hell we’ve seen revenge driven Bond on at least two separate occasions. Craig during that scene was someone else entirely - and it wasn’t Bond.

    Genuinely don't know what you mean, seems like the same guy to me.

    Ok that’s fine. But to me Craig’s acting is so bizarre in that scene that any sense of the character of Bond is completely lost. It’s one of his weakest moments in his entire tenure.
    If only he were simply agitated. He's completely off the reservation in that scene, nothing about him there tallies up with how Bond is shown elsewhere in NTTD or the other Craig films. His speech, mannerisms... it's as if we are watching a different character entirely.

    Completely accurate. Never before has a Bond actor broke character that much to where they feel as if they’re playing someone else entirely. Even Roger Moore didn’t do that.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,443
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.
  • talos7 wrote: »
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.

    It really is. For as much as I may dislike his performance during the Blofeld scene, I really think he's freaking awesome during the Jamaica and Cuba scenes. I really like his chemistry with Lea Seydoux (interesting because I hated their chemistry in Spectre) and I really loved the family dynamic and seeing Bond engage in actually being a father. He's pretty damn spectacular in those final moments too. But the PTS, the Blofeld scene, the desk jab - it all just makes for one of the most inconsistent Bond performances in my opinion.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 24 Posts: 8,769
    talos7 wrote: »
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.
    He cearly checked out hard after SP, and was just messing around experimenting, but wasn't going to turn down another huge payday.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 736
    I still can't get over the fact that he acts stand off-ish with Madeliene in that scene after he knows she wasn't in cahoots with Blofeld to kill him. Honestly, that whole aspect of their separation is so contrived.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,443
    I’ve always thought that after he carved the apple for Mathilde, seeing that she was happy with it it, Bond should have given the same quick smile that he flashed after his dinner with Vesper on the train, as she left.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,508
    Well, I am happy if Cuaron is on board to direct.
    InTheWind mentioned Dev Patel - and Dev as Bond is a firm yes for me. I can picture that.
    If they did a one-and-done Bond film of an older Bond, then I still, yes still, want Idris Elba in the role. He has the acting chops and the charisma.

    I'll go search for other names for Bond. I've been away a few weeks, so don't know if any new names have come up. Not seeing any so far.
  • edited March 24 Posts: 1,106
    talos7 wrote: »
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.

    I agree. I thought he was great in the pre-credit sequence, then, after the title song was whispered, and he called M "darling", well. . .

    The scene with Blofeld was ridiculous. Who was he supposed to be playing there?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,508
    I still can't get over the fact that he acts stand off-ish with Madeliene in that scene after he knows she wasn't in cahoots with Blofeld to kill him. Honestly, that whole aspect of their separation is so contrived.

    Blofeld tells him that after she's left.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 736
    mtm wrote: »
    I still can't get over the fact that he acts stand off-ish with Madeliene in that scene after he knows she wasn't in cahoots with Blofeld to kill him. Honestly, that whole aspect of their separation is so contrived.

    Blofeld tells him that after she's left.

    I know, my issue is that he can't gather that himself because the script tells him not to.
  • Posts: 622
    mtm wrote: »
    I still can't get over the fact that he acts stand off-ish with Madeliene in that scene after he knows she wasn't in cahoots with Blofeld to kill him. Honestly, that whole aspect of their separation is so contrived.

    Blofeld tells him that after she's left.

    I know, my issue is that he can't gather that himself because the script tells him not to.

    He can't gather it himself because he isn't thinking clear because he feels betrayed again so he shut himself off. That's the point — he's acting out of character because he is out of character.
  • Posts: 4,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.

    I agree. I thought he was great in the pre-credit sequence, then, after the title song was whispered, and he called M "darling", well. . .

    The scene with Blofeld was ridiculous. Who was he supposed to be playing there?

    I actually found Bond calling M darling quite funny! It’s the sort of power move that Bond would play, petty as it is.
  • Posts: 2,222
    As per the book:[/i]
    007HallY wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.

    I agree. I thought he was great in the pre-credit sequence, then, after the title song was whispered, and he called M "darling", well. . .

    The scene with Blofeld was ridiculous. Who was he supposed to be playing there?

    I actually found Bond calling M darling quite funny! It’s the sort of power move that Bond would play, petty as it is.

    Bond and M's relationship is another element of NTTD I am not too keen on. It's a repeat of the first half of Spectre, which I dont like either, in that Bond doesnt really respect Mallory's M, and is quite a dick towards him - overly hostile and showing no respect for their position. It's quite a contrast to the events of Skyfall and how it is set up for them. Bond and M may have respectfully disagreed with each other previously but they were never outright hostile to each other.
  • Posts: 4,883
    Mallory wrote: »
    As per the book:[/i]
    007HallY wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.

    I agree. I thought he was great in the pre-credit sequence, then, after the title song was whispered, and he called M "darling", well. . .

    The scene with Blofeld was ridiculous. Who was he supposed to be playing there?

    I actually found Bond calling M darling quite funny! It’s the sort of power move that Bond would play, petty as it is.

    Bond and M's relationship is another element of NTTD I am not too keen on. It's a repeat of the first half of Spectre, which I dont like either, in that Bond doesnt really respect Mallory's M, and is quite a dick towards him - overly hostile and showing no respect for their position. It's quite a contrast to the events of Skyfall and how it is set up for them. Bond and M may have respectfully disagreed with each other previously but they were never outright hostile to each other.

    I somewhat agree. I don't think Mallory comes out of NTTD very well (but I can see what they were going for I suppose). Still, I quite like the 'darling' line and find it very James Bond.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,554
    I truly wish Bond and Mallory had more time together in these films.

    We should count ourselves lucky when it comes to our ‘M’ actors. Lee, Brown, Dench, and Fiennes—each of them was downright splendid as Bond’s chief. With Fiennes, a new dimension was introduced: we met him before he became ‘M’ and watched him evolve—from a slightly bureaucratic antagonist to a heroic leader with a commanding yet respectable style.

    For me, Fiennes is one of the great “gets” of the Craig era, right alongside Harris, Whishaw, and, of course, Craig himself. Whenever I read Fleming now, I can’t help but picture Fiennes as ‘M.’ As we say goodbye to the Craig era, he’s one of the things I’ll miss the most.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 736
    Mallory wrote: »
    As per the book:[/i]
    007HallY wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    His performance in NTTD was very erratic; at times it was spot on , while at other times it was as if he was in a different film and portraying a different character.

    I agree. I thought he was great in the pre-credit sequence, then, after the title song was whispered, and he called M "darling", well. . .

    The scene with Blofeld was ridiculous. Who was he supposed to be playing there?

    I actually found Bond calling M darling quite funny! It’s the sort of power move that Bond would play, petty as it is.

    Bond and M's relationship is another element of NTTD I am not too keen on. It's a repeat of the first half of Spectre, which I dont like either, in that Bond doesnt really respect Mallory's M, and is quite a dick towards him - overly hostile and showing no respect for their position. It's quite a contrast to the events of Skyfall and how it is set up for them. Bond and M may have respectfully disagreed with each other previously but they were never outright hostile to each other.

    Right, the hostility in Spectre is silly, and in NTTD it just gets old. I like how they come around to each other but I want to get back to Bond respecting M in a way that's respectful of his authority and almost like a father figure.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,605
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Although, what I learnt from NTTD is, a director can know his job, but doesn't know how to make a Bond film feel like a Bond film. If it ends up being Cuaron, I hope he understands this.

    Well, we know EON thinks he does, because they asked him to signed on the dotted line before in the past.

    Yeah. I really hope so. But you could argue that EON thought Fukunaga had the Bond feel, but he clearly didn't. But yeah, I have no doubt about Cuaron's skills and I would have much preferred him to Apted for TWINE. But it's always an added advantage for a director to understand James Bond. Like those Bondian moments where he does extraordinary things. What I like about James Bond is, he poses with a gun in the posters, but the action and moments aren't just about guns, but inventive stuffs. I think apart from the Matera sequence, NTTD lacked those moments a lot.

    Above all though, he basically co-direct with a star who openly said that he really didn’t know how to direct or write.

    What do you mean?

    In The Making of NTTD book, several people said that DC basically directed some scenes. Namely the Blofeld prison scene. Phoebe Waller-Bridge wrote that scene alone, apparently.

    No who directed, I loathe that sequence, how it’s written, how it’s acted, everything.

    Same here.

    As per the book:

    "Daniel had a lot of ideas for the first two monologues of that scene" says Fukunaga. "I think there were some things Bond wanted to say to Blofeld that did quite come out in the last film. Phoebe and I went through and edited it, but the bones of it are what Daniel wanted".

    Fukunaga is pictured on the set with Waltz in the book, so I dont think DC directed the scenes per say.

    FWIW I dont like the sequence, Craig's weird hand movements and overacting (yes I know we are aware of the heracles on his hands we dont need hitting over the head with it), and the dialogue isnt great nor the delivery of it. Cuckoo.

    As I said before and paraphrased from the book: Co-directed.

    Film is a collaboration between director and actor. All big stars have input into their scenes.
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