Craig's films will be seen as a fad too

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  • Posts: 11,425
    trevanian wrote: »
    I'm really hoping people finally realize the truth about the emperor's new speedos and recognize these films for the disasters they mostly are. The aura of alleged realism doesn't excuse the idiot plot turns that CR and SKYFALL rely on almost exclusively, yet the films get praised for said realism while being as stupid as most Moore films.

    I think the Connery era will always be recognized for the brilliant way Young managed to call down the thunder AND capture the accompanying lightning in a bottle. As much as I'd also like to think folks would retroactively see the greatness embedded in Dalton's outings, I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that he is always going to be considered an eccentricity in the series (DEEP SPACE NINE is the bastard child of the STAR TREK universe, but it is the only one I think worthy of being adopted as true TREK, so Dalton is in good company in my opinion.)

    As for the Craig pics being ripe for parody, I'd say overripe. Mine's been percolating since I tried to watch CR for the first time, on homevid in 07, and it has actually gotten rather sizable by now. If I were to actually prune it down to comic essentials and shoot it, SPHINCTER (have only gotten half of the acronym worked out thus far) would probably run a half-hour (double that if I include a card game), which is a long while to sustain a decent parody.

    EDIT ADDON: the whole notion of these films being about Bond (or rather this rethink of Bond) instead of about Bond on a mission is probably going to be the thing that sticks out the most to future audiences, much like anybody looking at the films of the early 21st century seeing the odd color choices brought on by the use of digital intermediates.

    Slightly OTT but I see where you're coming from.

    I think Craig would really benefit from a romping standalone 'mission' movie that doesn't dwell on Bond's childhood or psychological state. That would help cement his long term status. Who knows, may be next time?

    As things stand though I think he will be remembered as a decent Bond though regardless of what Spectre and Bond 25 are like.

    As others have said, his reputation in the medium term will depend to an extent on who comes next. If they're any good then I think Craig will rapidly be forgotten.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Casino Royale was pretty standalone.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Murdock wrote: »
    Casino Royale was pretty standalone.

    CR was a perfect stand alone movie. Until QOS came along.

    I will never understand what got into Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson to do this "connecting" of Bond movies. The initial idea may have looked good on paper, but they failed so miserably that it's almost ruining Craig's run.

    Bond movies have to be watched as stand alone movies or they will not work in the long term.

    QOS and Skyfall can hardly be watched without having seen the one's that came before.
    Spectre will be even worse I'm afraid, it seems to be Skyfall Part 2.
    That doesn't mean those movies are not good, but how about re-watchability in the future? And isn't that the most important thing in the long run?

    Bond movies were never designed to be connected together like the Twilight movies for example.
    I sure hope they will go back to the stand alone movies fast after Spectre.
  • Posts: 11,425
    They're trying something different. I don't have a problem with that, but I would like to see DC do just one standalone mission movie.

    I wonder how many more he thinks he has in him. I think he's quite enjoying himself and might try to stretch to two more.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @Getafix, that'll also depend on whether or not we have another huge stretch of time between films again. It took us four years to get SF and another three for SP. I'd love to see another Bond film in 2017, or 2018 at the absolute latest. No more huge breaks between films, or else we'll really start to see the aging process on Craig.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    I think it's wonderful that they are connecting Craig's films. It ties them all nicely. I personally want to see him do two more as
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Getafix, that'll also depend on whether or not we have another huge stretch of time between films again. It took us four years to get SF and another three for SP. I'd love to see another Bond film in 2017, or 2018 at the absolute latest. No more huge breaks between films, or else we'll really start to see the aging process on Craig.

    I agree but For some reason EON don't seem capable of keeping to the two year schedule anymore. I suspect three is more likely. I really wish they had a smoothly oiled machine for cranking them out - is there any excuse not too? If SP is a success I'm sure they'll be trying to get Mendes back again, so we might have more wasted time, rewrites etc.

    They should have a script factory with the bones of a story and script ready to go, and a few back up directors ready to call on. In the time Mendes takes to decide he wants to direct Craig's final (6th film) they could bang out number 5 with a different team. Ken Brannagh to direct!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    It's no secret that I'm not too fond of Craig. I sure wasn't one of those people who were upset in the beginning, as usual I went to the cinema without prejudice and was blown away by Casino Royale.
    My doubt about Craig only started with QOS and grew a lot with Skyfall.

    If Spectre would be his last I'd shed no tear.
    If he does Bond 25 as planned, and I'm sure he will then that's perfectly ok.
    I just hope they will have a plan for that movie and not just "let it happen" like QOS.
    I don't believe in a 2017 release though, the producer's have lost my trust in that matter completely. If it is 2018 IT HAS TO BE THE LAST CRAIG MOVIE, it would already be his 12th year and only his 5th movie.

    I think 5 would be the perfect number for Craig.

    I even think 5 is the perfect number for any Bond actor. It can be made in a decade easily if the producers are capable.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @Getafix, that's what I've also wondered: what stage of production makes them take so long? I wonder if they started working on a script right now, could they plausibly get B25 into cinemas by October of 2017? Seems likely enough to me, and I'd love to see that happening. All I can hope is that they don't make us wait one extra year again while they beg Mendes to return. He said he isn't coming back (once again), so let's get someone else in the chair who is both qualified and ready to rock and roll at a moment's notice.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They will wait an extra year for the cafeteria lady who is on maternity leave.
  • Posts: 2,031
    Years from now when Bond becomes a super-hero of cartoonish proportions in the style of Adam West's Batman that would make RM's Bond look positively Shakespearean, I'm sure some will look back on Craig's tenure as Bond as quaint and silly, quite worthy of mocking and parody for it's oh so serious approach. Nothing becomes a Bond portrayal like an adolescent sensibility.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    With Craig .....
    ... The Bond films as you know them will cease to exist, They're a rebirth
    A new Bond". To misquote Hugo Drax. :)
  • Posts: 486
    eddychaput wrote: »
    I don't think there is much doubt that QOS is one most heavily inspired by the Bourne films. From the editing technique to the notion of Bond going rogue (sort of) and being hunted down by his superiors, to Bond facing off against an organization that is involved with corrupt politicians. Even though I've come to enjoy some of QOS qualities over the years, I think it's the one Bond film that does lack a degree of Bondness

    Although it's a film stripped to the bare bones I find QOS to follow more of a traditional BOND plot than Skyfall. When I saw QOS at the cinema I found it much better than what the reviews had indicated. Whereas I left the cinema after SF finding it overrated rather than the Best Bond ever.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Cowley wrote: »
    eddychaput wrote: »
    I don't think there is much doubt that QOS is one most heavily inspired by the Bourne films. From the editing technique to the notion of Bond going rogue (sort of) and being hunted down by his superiors, to Bond facing off against an organization that is involved with corrupt politicians. Even though I've come to enjoy some of QOS qualities over the years, I think it's the one Bond film that does lack a degree of Bondness

    Although it's a film stripped to the bare bones I find QOS to follow more of a traditional BOND plot than Skyfall. When I saw QOS at the cinema I found it much better than what the reviews had indicated. Whereas I left the cinema after SF finding it overrated rather than the Best Bond ever.

    Join the club! I had exactly the same experience. Really enjoyed QOS in the cinema. For much of the film it feels like more of a traditional Bond mission, even though he does go a bit rogue. SF left me utterly underwhelmed. I don't think Thomas Newman's score helped much either.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    I fell in love with QoS the first time I saw it, and I've loved it just as much ever since. I felt so-so about SF when I saw it in theaters and haven't watched it much since, unfortunately. Just doesn't do it for me. Like @Getafix said, I felt really underwhelmed.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    The more I watch QOS (last night on Blu Ray for the first time) the more I'm convinced that this will be Craig's LTK in that the rediscovery of this little gem will vindicate it, especially after SP.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited August 2015 Posts: 11,139
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The more I watch QOS (last night on Blu Ray for the first time) the more I'm convinced that this will be Craig's LTK in that the rediscovery of this little gem will vindicate it, especially after SP.

    I agree. QoS is criminally underrated. I can forgive the lacking script but what really sucks the most about this film is the rapid cut editing. It's just so aggravating.

    FYI...Quantum of Solace has an average shot length of 1.7 seconds. If we only average the shot length's of the PTS the average shot length is a hasty 0.82 seconds!!

    CR had an average shot length of 2.9 seconds. Skyfall has an average shot length of 3.3 seconds and Dr. No has an average shot length of 6.6 seconds!!

    Here is an article discussing this:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/science/02angi.html?referrer=




  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @doubleoego

    Very interesting facts. Thanks.

    The PTS simply was ruined by the editor, that's for sure. And that is such a shame.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The more I watch QOS (last night on Blu Ray for the first time) the more I'm convinced that this will be Craig's LTK in that the rediscovery of this little gem will vindicate it, especially after SP.

    Totally agree. Have been a defender of QoS since it came out.

    It's one of my favourite Bonds of the last 25 years. Much better than some people make out. Could have done without Agent Fields (at least the way she was done) and some bits could have been fleshed out more, but overall one of the better post-Dalton Bonds. Certainly better than the absurdly overrated SF.

    And I am hopeful that SP is going to help bring it back into the mainstream.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The more I watch QOS (last night on Blu Ray for the first time) the more I'm convinced that this will be Craig's LTK in that the rediscovery of this little gem will vindicate it, especially after SP.

    Totally agree. Have been a defender of QoS since it came out.

    Same here, which is why I can forgive your utter dislike of Brosnan. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Dr. No has an average shot length of 6.6 seconds!!
    @doubleoego
    The PTS simply was ruined by the editor, that's for sure. And that is such a shame.
    I'm to a point now where the editing doesn't bother me in the slightest. I can see it all very clearly.
    And, it's interesting to note that when I showed it to my Son last night on Blu Ray he had no complaints at all as a first time viewer... in fact he mentioned that the PTS was exceptionally well photographed... we older folks are playing visual recognition catch up. I remember being forced to do this back in 1977 with the 'quick' edits in Star Wars.
    :))
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The more I watch QOS (last night on Blu Ray for the first time) the more I'm convinced that this will be Craig's LTK in that the rediscovery of this little gem will vindicate it, especially after SP.

    Totally agree. Have been a defender of QoS since it came out.

    Same here, which is why I can forgive your utter dislike of Brosnan. ;)

    Not dislike - only disappointment. It's quite hard to actually dislike Brosnan the man, who seems thoroughly decent.

    One of the ironies of my Bond fan-dom is that Connery comes across as quite unpleasant in many respects, and Dalton in his Bond period as really quite pompous and humourless, yet they're two of my favourites in the role.

    Perhaps only Sir Rog combined being apparently very likeable in real life and a classic Bond (IMO).
  • Posts: 1,181
    @doubleoego I agree. I vastly prefer the longer shot lengths. It's just more comfortable for me to view.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Getafix wrote: »
    Yes, Bond has always responded to what's hot and what's not. At least since the Start of the Moore era anyway.

    Fully agree with this.
    You couln't be more spot on that's why every actor except Connery who will always be loved) is liked when he is playing the role and disliked when the new one comes in.


    Sure all of the actors get their strong fan base that no matter who comed into the part or leaves those fans will always love their favorites.

    But when it comes to the press the new guy will always be the second best after Sean Connery and will be praised big time.






  • I agree, further down the road Craig's Bond will be seen as a thing from the past. Quite frankly, I love Craig as Bond, his films are some of the best of the series, but I would always take Connery, Brosnan, and Moore over him, mainly because they were the ones I grew up on. I also grew up on Dalton, but since he only did 2 films, I don't think he had as big impact on my childhood, though I put TLD in my top 10 Bond films. As I said, I have nothing against Craig, but his films just didn't have much of an impact on me as FRWL, Goldfinger, TSWLM, and Goldeneye. But yes, he films look dated further down, but not too badly as say FYEO, TSWLM, ETC... However, he has the distinction of being in my least favorite Bond film (QOS)
  • Posts: 11,425
    I agree, further down the road Craig's Bond will be seen as a thing from the past. Quite frankly, I love Craig as Bond, his films are some of the best of the series, but I would always take Connery, Brosnan, and Moore over him, mainly because they were the ones I grew up on. I also grew up on Dalton, but since he only did 2 films, I don't think he had as big impact on my childhood, though I put TLD in my top 10 Bond films. As I said, I have nothing against Craig, but his films just didn't have much of an impact on me as FRWL, Goldfinger, TSWLM, and Goldeneye. But yes, he films look dated further down, but not too badly as say FYEO, TSWLM, ETC... However, he has the distinction of being in my least favorite Bond film (QOS)

    I think Craig's era will stand the test of time, but inevitably some of the hype will subside, which is a good thing.
  • Well what I meant was they would look older, who knows what new technological advancements in film come, and agreed, in order for Bond to live on, the actor, and style of the films need to be updated, Craig introduced us to a darker, emotional Bond in vein of Lazenby and Dalton, next maybe we can have a humorous Bond, but not to the extent of Moore, maybe to the extent of Connery or Brosnan, who knows, it's too early to tell
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    It is absolutely possible that when a new actor has done two Bond movies, Craig will be viewed as not so great anymore or maybe he'll be missed greatly.

    Or Both,hehe.
    Each actor got their strong fan base during their tneure and the fans each one got wont go to the next Bond actor bandwagon.
    They will stay loyal to their respective favorite.

    Sure some might change their minds but i bet he got some loyal fans.
    Really they might come many actors after Pierce but i firmly made my mind and i can certenly say Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery will always be my two favorites and they will always share my first spot.


    Im sure this is the case for all the other actors fan bases.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    If you should get confused looking at that pic:
    left: Sterling Archer the Original
    right: the guy who thinks he is original

    full.jpg
    :P
  • Posts: 11,425
    Szonana wrote: »
    It is absolutely possible that when a new actor has done two Bond movies, Craig will be viewed as not so great anymore or maybe he'll be missed greatly.

    Or Both,hehe.
    Each actor got their strong fan base during their tneure and the fans each one got wont go to the next Bond actor bandwagon.
    They will stay loyal to their respective favorite.

    Sure some might change their minds but i bet he got some loyal fans.
    Really they might come many actors after Pierce but i firmly made my mind and i can certenly say Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery will always be my two favorites and they will always share my first spot.


    Im sure this is the case for all the other actors fan bases.

    I am not Craig's biggest fan but I do worry who will replace him. I worry that EON will slip back into a lazy comfort zone and pick a bland catalogue model. I hope that doesn't happen but some people really see Bond as just about having a good looking guy in glamorous locations with a few bimbos sprinkled in for good effect.
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