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Is a black James Bond inevitable ?
DaltonCraig007
They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
There is another thread - 'How would you feel if a BLACK James Bond was cast' <url>http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/772/how-would-you-feel-if-a-black-james-bond-was-casts/p3#Item_84</url>;
but this discussion is a little different.
So, do you think that, in this day and age, a black Bond is inevitable ? I was at the pub last night with a couple of friends, and suddenly the discussion turns to this one precisely... Anything I said about 'Bond is a white character'... automaticly made everyone at the pub think I was racist.
So the question hit my on the head - is a black Bond inevitable ? Will the PC world lead to a Black Bond ? I tried to explain to them that Fleming had wrote Bond to the fine details... And they still insinuated I was racist AND that Fleming's novels were very much outdated by now...
**Feel free to lock the thread if it is too similar to the other thread**
but this discussion is a little different.
So, do you think that, in this day and age, a black Bond is inevitable ? I was at the pub last night with a couple of friends, and suddenly the discussion turns to this one precisely... Anything I said about 'Bond is a white character'... automaticly made everyone at the pub think I was racist.
So the question hit my on the head - is a black Bond inevitable ? Will the PC world lead to a Black Bond ? I tried to explain to them that Fleming had wrote Bond to the fine details... And they still insinuated I was racist AND that Fleming's novels were very much outdated by now...
**Feel free to lock the thread if it is too similar to the other thread**
This discussion has been closed.
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Comments
Bond is white in the books and he will stay white
what's next?
let's make James Bond a woman because after all, there are women named James?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_King
Bond will never be a woman. That's just too far from the original character. But what about a Black/Indian British actor ? That just changes his race...
Sorry j7wild but your arguments are just nonsensical. Turning Bond into a Black British character is MUCH, MUCH less of a change than making him female. By female, you almost change the entire character. Turning Bond into a woman just contradicts almost every aspects of the character... Whereas turning Bond into a black character contradict only only 1 aspect of the character - his race/skin colour.
We've had actors going from Connery to Craig, Moore to Dalton, Lazenby to Brosnan... and yet crowds root for all of them. And since when the movies have followed the novels to the letter ? Only FRWL and OHMSS are anywhere close of their respective sources, yet there is still much ground to cover until we have the perfect Fleming adaptation.
I felt the same about Felix Leiter's casting in CR. I like Jeffrey Wright very much, but it bothered me that the producers didn't care about him being already established. Why not have another character be portrayed by a Black actor? Heck he could be very prominent, just not Felix!
M is a different story as the character of M has been established as a different person (Judy Dench) following up on his predecessor. Black, Indian, Male, Female, anything was fair game.
Just because 'YOU' don't want a Black Bond, doesn't make it an argument, sorry... Crowds have rooted for 6 very different Bond actors... What's stopping audiences from rooting a black Bond ?
I'm not talking about Will Smith as Bond, but a black, unknown, British actor.
Book Bond was born in the 1920's, Craig Bond in 1968, and Bond #7 most likely in the 1970's... Bond now comes from a time where interracial marriage has become accepted in society...
And casting a Black Bond is just totally different than a female Bond, so the 2 cannot be compared. A black Bond maybe contradicts his original ethnicy... But a woman Bond just contradicts nearly every aspect of the character.
I didn't say turn Bond into a woman,
I asked:
"what's next?
let's make James Bond a woman because after all, there are women named James? "
no wonder some of yall are always on my case, you can't read!!
I bet you sign contracts without reading every single line and dot either!!
The best man for the role will play Bond next time round, regardless of race or religeon.
What they won't do is deliberately cast a black actor just to be PC. Colin Salmon always championed the role and he was completely unsuitable. Nothing to do with colour, he was just never going to be a leading actor who could carry a film.
But thanks for brining Shaft into the discussion : Could Shaft be played by a white actor ??
My point wasn't intended as racist, @DC, and I apologise if that's how it can be read. What I was hinting at is that we'd be stirring up a nest of wasps sitting entirely out of human reach in the middle of nowhere. Why would the producers even consider going the ultra-controversial way when no one is openly expressing interest in a black Bond, safe for perhaps a couple actors? It's not like Bond monopolises the spy/action market. Anyone can start a Bond-like franchise with a black character as the central protagonist. It can grab a few elements from the Bond series and start from there, building its own style. Like Bond / Mission: Impossible / Bourne and even Austin Powers, this new franchise could be its own successful thing. But bringing a black Bond to the screen means tampering with one of the very Flemingian foundations of the whole world of Bond. Furthermore, it wouldn't add anything to the series that would make it so much better. A good actor can be a good Bond, but forgive me, as much as a woman Bond is the very opposite of Fleming's creation, so is, IMHO, a black Bond.
I would like to add to this that I hear the arguments and many make sense. I suppose it depends on how much of a traditionalist one really is. I myself am open to change, but skin colour is where I draw the line. Take Craig. I know there were objections, especially in terms of hair colour and muscle mass, but Craig defies Fleming's image of Bond to an extent that is perfectly acceptable in my book. In other words, those minor aberrations raise no objections. But there are certain things I wouldn't accept, and of course I know they're subjective so I'm pleading a case from the heart here, not from a '007 manual' of some sort.
So, IMO Bond can't be
- too small
- too fat
- bearded (all the time ;;) )
- bald
- female
- homosexual
- black
- ...
I respect that other people may have a different set of Bond-can't-be's. In turn, I hope people can respect that this is the very set I live by and that from all of this it cannot be concluded that I am sexist, homophobic, racist, ... But when I feel an urge to watch James Bond, I expect no Shaft and vice versa.The question remains unanswered of course. Is it inevitable? I don't think it's inevitable. So long as the producers appreciate a minimal set of rules in correspondence with Fleming's creation, one of those involving skin colour, they won't consider it. Is it possible, however? Sure it is. It takes one influential person at EON to make the decision. I can't predict this will never happen. However, I doubt it.
Is it possible? Sure. Is it written somewhere that it must happen one day? No. Would I like it? No. Does it matter what I like? No. ;;)
Overall, I don't think it's inevitable. Times change, people change, but Bond has always been Caucasian. It isn't racist in the slightest, I just don't know if I could get into the movies as much with such a big change. All these years and nearly 23 movies in, and it would just be that big of a change.
I just happened to come across this yesterday, so I'm very glad this topic was created.
This video may bring up some nice discussion points:
Some good points, but I don't think a black Bond is suddenly possible just because of Barack Obama becoming the President. I could see it, I wouldn't mind having one. It's just that he has always been the central point of the Bond films. He's always been white. It's what we're used to every time. Something small like Moneypenny becoming black, or M becoming a woman is understandable.
And no, Xzibit, we aren't asking you to be Bond. Idris Elba would be good.
Many in the USA seem to think it's OK. And to me that's a problem. What about say, the UK I wonder what they think...
As for using Bond for social change, that's wrong and just goes to show how big Bond, as a film series is.
I honestly don't see the difference between the complaints about a black Bond and a blonde Bond? As long as he is (acting) British, I don't see what the difference is, except racism? (not accusing anyone of this, just wondering the justification). Obviously Bond in the 21st century is far-removed from the original character Fleming wrote, regardless of what race he is. I think as long as he is a man and can act British (or at the least Western European), we're okay.
The only argument I can see against it is that if Bond, Felix and Moneypenny are all black, it's a disproportionate representation of the true population. If one were white, one were black and one were Arab, I think even that would be be fine.
As for 'is it inevitable'? I honestly don't know. I almost feel as though a white American actor would likely be cast first (but a good actor that could do an accent without it being laughable)
If it happens, it happens-- but 50+ years of history as a white British man isn't small potatoes. Me personally, I'd love to see a few more from Craig- then perhaps Cavill once he's done being Superman and is over 35- THEN perhaps they can give it a shot. Hell, I'll still see it.
But I had mentioned on the last 'black Bond' thread. There's REALLY no reason to do such a thing other than to stir up attention. I mean, he'd better be DAMN GOOD if he intends to win the whole world over
Bond should never ever ever ever ever be black. Sorry, but he has always been white and the possible backlash from a change like this could put the series criticized by fans and leave considerable damage. From the video it seems equally apparent, considering 95% of the people interviewed were of color(and that the only white were past Bond actors/actresses and an idiot at a Pulp Fiction convention or something),is that of course black stars and actors would want to have a black James Bond. If you asked the Chinese, they would want a Chinese James Bond. The Japanese would like a Japanese James Bond. Not much substance in the video. The past Bond actors seemed to be under pressure and just answered positively to avoid being called a racist, because apparently even if you have considerable evidence to back your view up it's inevitable. George was apparently there(wherever they caught him at) for the free drinks and had so much that good old Mr. Owen seemed darker to him. I'm not saying that if Bond was black he would be considered less of a man or he wouldn't be as thrilling, but it just wouldn't happen in my opinion. I think of Bond as a white, dark haired(or blond works too, thanks DC), suave, defensive man who bites danger in the arse and comes out on top no matter the test. That's the Bond of the books and the basis for the films. We've had a lot of different actors but the same Bond rings true in the course of the series' history. Bond has just ALWAYS fit this bill, and EON can't afford to change it now. I can see the team changing lost things from the past, ie. bringing back Moneypenny and possibly Q, but don't change Bond from what his been for all of us. I can see decisions being made that help the series become better, but how would changing Bond's skin color change or better anything? He would still run, gun, bed women and take down the villains in the some way shape and form. So why on Bond's green Earth would you change him now. Come on guys. We aren't in the 50's anymore. Everyone on this Earth should be considered equal. I don't want to hear anyone calling anyone else racist. That in of itself is crude and immature. Some of the greatest men and women in the history of our world were of color, and that I appreciate more than you could ever know. But Bond should stay as he is.
Having said that I have no problem with a black actor playing Bond. There are British people who are black (including a couple of good friends of mine) so it's not like it's going against some concrete laws about who counts as "British". The Bond of the books was created in the 50s as a government agent and for a black man to have been in that position would have been extremely unusual at the time. For the Bond of the films who is now the product of a different generation it wouldn't seem strange. Some people point out that Bond HAS to be portrayed as Scots/Swiss because that's what he was in the books, but I don't see how that's important (and has it even been mentioned in any of the EON films? Has Leiter being Texan ever been mentioned?).
I'm always surprised when people bring up the comparison to Shaft because he and Bond are not similar characters. Bond is always described as "British secret agent James Bond" and Shaft is described as the "black private dick". For the characters to be comparable then Bond should have always been described as "white secret agent James Bond" or Shaft should have always been described as "American private dick". Shaft's race is the defining characterisic of the character; for Bond it's his nationality. And a black man can be British.
So barring a box-office collapse, Bond will always be white.
Fleming wrote the character as a white Englishman. Simple. Others can act English but you can't "act white' unless you wear make-up.
Bond is the lead character. The films centre around the character. All the other character looks have been tampered with but it doesn't really matter. They aren't the focus of the films.
Bond has a universal look and persona which hasn't changed in any major way since Fleming introduced the character in 1953. I say major way. There has been the inevitable minor tinkering but the core persona hasn't changed.
The comparison with Shaft is appropos. In fact its probably one of the best parallels. Shaft has a distinct ethnicity, intrinsic to the character, just as Bond does.