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Why is there the Fakery of the Occult in Live and Let Die (1973)?

DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
edited August 2015 in Bond Movies Posts: 18,343
To be specific here I am referring to what one might call the fakery of the occult present at times in Live and Let Die (1973). By this I mean those scenes in the film where instead of the occult being used naturally as if it exists for real (e.g. Solitaire using ESP and reading the tarot cards and telling of Bond's arrival etc., Baron Samedi's return from the dead at the end) there is the use of fakery of the occult.

For example, the scarecrows with built-in surveillance cameras and guns (one of which is used to kill Rosie Carver) and most especially the robotic version of Baron Samedi that rises out of the ground (rather like the Devil) only for Bond to fire his revolver at it and blow its head off. We see that instead of Baron Samedi rising from the ground in an occult manner he is actually on a lift that brings him to the surface from Dr Kananga's underground base. It's always struck me as a very weird and unexplained moment from the film.

What I'm left wondering is was the writer/director trying to suggest that the occult is real or the occult is fake and used to keep the superstitious and devout Voodoo natives of the islands of San Monique in check through "the voodoo threat of Baron Samedi" as in the original Bond novel with Mr Big as the villain? Was this a White Man casting doubt on the real power of Voodoo as a religion and practice or that Kananga added to the natural power of Voodoo with a little occult fakery of his own just for good measure?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one, as always! :)

Comments

  • TokolosheTokoloshe Under your bed
    Posts: 2,667
    Seems pretty clear to me that Kananga simply uses superstitious nonsense to keep the locals out of his business. While they are all intimidated by voodoo they won't dare to oppose him.

    His relationship with Solitaire is stranger since it indicates he actually has some belief in her "abilities" as well. LALD is rather unique in this respect in that it shows the cynical use of religion to control people but doesn't entirely discredit Solitarie's supposed psychic powers.
  • ChevronChevron Northern Ireland
    Posts: 370
    I assumed it was to keep control of the locals. To have them do some dirty work, the keep them from asking too many questions and to keep people away from places they should not be. Sort of like the "dragon" in Dr No.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Agreed, He used it to frighten and control the local people.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Chevron wrote: »
    I assumed it was to keep control of the locals. To have them do some dirty work, the keep them from asking too many questions and to keep people away from places they should not be. Sort of like the "dragon" in Dr No.

    Yep. This was the case in the novel and the film. Plus Bond films to a certain degree are grounded in reality and the occult is quite frankly bollocks (and isn't).
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Chevron wrote: »
    I assumed it was to keep control of the locals. To have them do some dirty work, the keep them from asking too many questions and to keep people away from places they should not be. Sort of like the "dragon" in Dr No.

    Yep. This was the case in the novel and the film. Plus Bond films to a certain degree are grounded in reality and the occult is quite frankly bollocks (and isn't).

    Actually, in some parts of Haiti, it is serious stuff.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I think he means that people can't really do supernatural feats, not that people don't take it seriously.
  • komododragonBkomododragonB
    Posts: 48
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_viewing

    I think this is something where there was a hint of reality. I've reads accounts where behind closed doors this kinda stuff is taken way more seriously and I'm sure Fleming probably was aware of such things especially back then. "PSIINT" as it's called is real, the whole "men who stare at goats" kinda thing. Solitaire would be considered a remote viewer. Whether it really works or exactly how doesn't matter as long as they produce results.

    I've read the book Psi-Spies by Jim Marrs, it's an interesting subject and apparently at one point it was taken seriously. There's some other stuff I've heard first hand from a friend, someone in US Army Intelligence but I don't know if I was supposed to be told but there are remote viewers still in use. I'm not saying this "psychic stuff" is true but it's a real thing. It's interesting and I'm glad Fleming touched on it in LALD.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Anyone capable of remote viewing is welcome to claim a million dollar prize.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Tokoloshe wrote: »
    Seems pretty clear to me that Kananga simply uses superstitious nonsense to keep the locals out of his business. While they are all intimidated by voodoo they won't dare to oppose him.

    His relationship with Solitaire is stranger since it indicates he actually has some belief in her "abilities" as well. LALD is rather unique in this respect in that it shows the cynical use of religion to control people but doesn't entirely discredit Solitarie's supposed psychic powers.

    This.

    Plus, Bond films were always a playground for techno gadgets.

    Plus, wouldn't the distributors have had trouble in the 70s to sell a film with occult stuff depicted as real to kids, who I presume were already then a big part of the target audience? Especially from DAF on the direction was more camp than anything else. Realistic occult didn't really fit with that concept.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    " Now go do that Voodoo, they You do, so Well !!!!" :D
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,661
    Bond tells Solitare it's all fake. It's written into the dialogue. I can't remember the exact quote but Bond makes it clear - the representation of the occult is fakery - so I think it's fair to say the screenwriters never intended to present the occult as a legitimate form of religion or worship. Bond films are not about the supernatural. It's all smoke and mirrors. ;)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    It's well known that Fleming was quite interested in the occult. As in the novel, in the film it's used as a power instrument to frighten people and let them do what Mr. Big wants (as is the case with Rosie Carver). At the same time Solitaire's powers are not disproved. But Bond uses his personal manupalitive ways to get her on his side. There is no proof of her powers, neither disproof. It's part of what some members here refer to as the 'benign bizarre' that you can find in many a Bond-story.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Rewatched LALD again last night, and it seemed clear to me that most of the 'occult' type stuff was to scare the locals and prevent intruders from coming near the poppy fields.
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,022
    Indeed. But there are some supernatural elements there. Baron Samedi's appearance at the end., for example. I think (and I'm not the only one), that the inclusion of these elements (Solitaire's gift with the cards, Baron Samedi) gives something special to the movie which puts it apart from the rest. Of course, it can be well or baly played. Geoffrey Holder is phenomenal. But I could have done without Gloria Hendry's "scared bird" routine.

    Speaking of the movie, Jane Seymour will be the star of an episode of "Who Do You Think You Are" this year. I won't miss it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Yeah, I'd say the only 'supernatural' element that really sticks out for me throughout is Baron Samedi's appearance at the very end of the movie.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The element of the occult in the film is played out ambiguosly, and that was a smart move. My own interpretation is that some of it is for real, and Mr Big exaggerates it to get power over people. Much like other religious/spiritual movements.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited August 2015 Posts: 5,131
    TripAces wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Chevron wrote: »
    I assumed it was to keep control of the locals. To have them do some dirty work, the keep them from asking too many questions and to keep people away from places they should not be. Sort of like the "dragon" in Dr No.

    Yep. This was the case in the novel and the film. Plus Bond films to a certain degree are grounded in reality and the occult is quite frankly bollocks (and isn't).

    Actually, in some parts of Haiti, it is serious stuff.

    It may well be in less educated cultures. I do fine the occult interesting, but taking it as real in Bond is a no no.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    You've hit the nail on the head there @CommanderRoss. As you said Fleming was fascinated by Voodoo. It's not hard to see why – Voodoo is a quite macabre religion, and you can find a similar vein running throughout Fleming's novels. Do you have any further reading on Fleming and Voodoo @Dragonpol?

    I too, am intrigued by Voodoo, mainly due to Fleming's writing. When he's going on about Voodoo in that extended passage, one can feel a sense of uneasiness, both you as a reader, and Bond as a reader. It's almost palpable.
    Dragonpol wrote:

    Was this a White Man casting doubt on the real power of Voodoo as a religion and practice

    I don't think that was the intention old boy. LALD isn't too deep of a movie to suggest something like that.

    Incidentally, I had a dream about Spectre, in which the film what all supernatural on our asses, kinda like LALD, but more weirder and more extreme. As I watched the movie, it devolved into a supernatural freak feast, and I realised that I was not enjoying Spectre. A premonition, maybe? Hopefully that will not be the case later this year.


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