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DAF, AVTAK, LTK, DAD and SP - Why the last of each era is viewed upon with mixed feelings.

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Having said that, yes, the last film is generally a failure either commercially, critically, artistically, or all three. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been the last. The only one of those actors that could have continued had they wished would have been Connery. And maybe Moore, but I am fairly confident that even if he hadn't bowed out EON would have pulled the plug at that point.

    Thing is Moore bowed out because of his age, making the point that he himself figured enough was enough. Personally I really love AVTAK, but that's another matter, I can understand why it lets people down. Still, I don't think it's Moore's worst, I think Moonraker is. So, things aren't that cut and dried after all.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Having said that, yes, the last film is generally a failure either commercially, critically, artistically, or all three. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been the last. The only one of those actors that could have continued had they wished would have been Connery. And maybe Moore, but I am fairly confident that even if he hadn't bowed out EON would have pulled the plug at that point.

    Thing is Moore bowed out because of his age, making the point that he himself figured enough was enough. Personally I really love AVTAK, but that's another matter, I can understand why it lets people down. Still, I don't think it's Moore's worst, I think Moonraker is. So, things aren't that cut and dried after all.

    It's true MR does get very near the bottom in lot of lists.
    But also very high.
    My personal bottom Moore is TMWTGG
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,252
    I admit AVTAK is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, although I've always found the pacing off compared to the other Glen films. This time around, I much prefer Moonraker - the stunts, dialogue, score are great...the main downside being Jaws falling in love. The Bondola is ridiculous but doesn't bother me as much as it does most other people
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    @BondJasonBond006 agreed, TMWTGG is a lesser film too. @Birdleson that, indeed, is fair. But that's then the main problem with the 'general public' and the last films of the actors: DAF was received very well, whilst AVTAK wasn't. DAD, IIRC was. But with us fans, discussing this time and time again, a completely different order forms:
    in 2012 this was the list:
    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/interact_poll_results_2012_best_james_bond_film.php3

    With AVTAK,DAD and Moonraker solidly at the bottom.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Funnily enough, my problem with AVTAK isn't so much Moore's age (though that is an issue when he's paired alongside Page 3 glamour-models). but more the fairly limp style of film-making. There's no "oomph" to AVTAK.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Funnily enough, my problem with AVTAK isn't so much Moore's age (though that is an issue when he's paired alongside Page 3 glamour-models). but more the fairly limp style of film-making. There's no "oomph" to AVTAK.

    Yeah I think you nailed it. The only oomph in the film is Barry's score which is great as usual
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006 agreed, TMWTGG is a lesser film too. @Birdleson that, indeed, is fair. But that's then the main problem with the 'general public' and the last films of the actors: DAF was received very well, whilst AVTAK wasn't. DAD, IIRC was. But with us fans, discussing this time and time again, a completely different order forms:
    in 2012 this was the list:
    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/interact_poll_results_2012_best_james_bond_film.php3

    With AVTAK,DAD and Moonraker solidly at the bottom.

    Thanks for that link! Very interesting indeed!

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    A VIEW TO A KILL
    Simply put, Moore was way too old. Not that the age number matters but he looked old in that movie. Just look at this picture.
    full.jpg
    Except for Q the other 4 are within 6 years of the same age. Moore was 58.
    I think this is the main reason really why AVTAK gets near to the bottom of most lists. It just didn't work.

    Whilst we all agree that Rog was just too old in this film we have to be fair to him. He was 56 when he filmed the Ascot scenes. And he was still only 57 when the film was released. ;) .
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/3526/the-actual-age-of-the-bond-actors-during-production
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Ok, sorry Rog and @NicNac, certainly don't mean any disrespect :)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    @NicNac

    My mum is going to be 57 next birthday and my dad is already over 60. I don't like to think of them as "old". However, I think that the way Rog looked and acted didn't do him any favours. They stuck a leather jacket on him, which gave him a "geezer" look and dyed his hair in not a particularly flattering manner. Also, his face-lift and "leathery" appearance made him look even worse.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @NicNac

    My mum is going to be 57 next birthday and my dad is already over 60. I don't like to think of them as "old". However, I think that the way Rog looked and acted didn't do him any favours. They stuck a leather jacket on him, which gave him a "geezer" look and dyed his hair in not a particularly flattering manner. Also, his face-lift and "leathery" appearance made him look even worse.

    Indeed, he really did look bad. He looked well worn in FYEO and just about got away with it. He looked too old in OP and in AVTAK it was all beyond a joke. I love the guy but deary me.

    A better haircut would have helped.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Not to mention "Mistaaaa Sin Jin Smith", which was a particularly 'oily' disguise.

    I agree, they did not do him any favours in this film. His performance was great as always, but they could have made him look more favourable. That leather jacket was the pits. Baking quiche, tucking in Stacy and hanging around a kitchen was also a problem imho because it just played into the fact that he was a little past it.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    To be perfectly honest, I don't think Moore gives off a Bond vibe in AVTAK. He may have given a decent-ish performance but that was his biggest failing for me.

    He may have looked a little long in the tooth in FYEO and OP but at least in those films he felt more like a seasoned spy.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    OP is the last in my Connery/Moore Bondathon (probably tomorrow) and I will look if he looks old or too old (for my taste) at least in FYEO he didn't.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I think he gets away with it more in those two.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited October 2015 Posts: 9,020
    When I think that Roger was as old as I am now when he did LALD he looked exceptionally good!
    I do too of course, but not that good :))
    Edit: Nope I'm only 41 even worse :)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Do I calculate correctly? Rog was 45 in 1973?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited October 2015 Posts: 9,020
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Yes.

    Damn, I will never complain about Craig's age again :))
    But then Craig looks his age, Roger did not.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    To see him go from TMWTGG to MR in five years was pretty shocking at the time, wrinkle wise. Watch those two back-to-back.

    I do remember reading a review from the Radio Times (a well known television magazine in the UK) saying that Moore was his least convincing as 007 in Moonraker - a statement I'm not going to entirely disagree with.

    It's worth noting that in both MR and AVTAK he wears some rather naff clothes too.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,520
    AVTAK. 5/23
    DAF. 12/23
    LTK. 14/23
    DAD. 20/23
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    @BAIN123, Moore wore some naff clothes in most of his films to be honest.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Lancaster007 wrote: »
    @BAIN123, Moore wore some naff clothes in most of his films to be honest.

    You're right. I suppose it was the 70s/80s afterall. Its just that in MR/AVTAK I think his costumes are especially naff.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Lancaster007 wrote: »
    @BAIN123, Moore wore some naff clothes in most of his films to be honest.

    You're right. I suppose it was the 70s/80s afterall. Its just that in MR/AVTAK I think his costumes are especially naff.


    WHAT DO YOU MEAN...NAFF CLOTHES!?!?
    full.jpg


    URGHH....I SHOW YOU NAFF CLOTHES!!!!!
    full.jpg
  • timmertimmer
    Posts: 4,622
    Ignoring this thread.
    DAF was a triumph of epic proportions!!!
    #FaveBondOfThemAll

    carry on!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    timmer wrote: »
    Ignoring this thread.
    DAF was a triumph of epic proportions!!!
    #FaveBondOfThemAll

    carry on!

    I feel you man, I feel the same about DAD, well not that enthousiastic.
    But I can't ignore this thread...
    ...I started it for Heaven's sake :))
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited October 2015 Posts: 8,266
    full.jpg[/quote]
    Somehow this picture worries me. It's his face. He really doesn't care beeing up there at all. Seems like he's been doing that all morning. And she's bored by it too...
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Each Bond actor's last movie seems to be the one most disliked or at least getting the most mixed reactions.

    Now that Spectre has run its course I'm "resurrecting" this thread to see if there is something new to discuss.

    All of those 5 movies do have their fans of course.

    DAF - certainly the least liked of Connery and often regarded to be the least good of the series.

    AVTAK - probably Moore's last is also the least liked of his tenure and is found a lot near the bottom of lists.

    LTK - while this certainly can be found in the upper half of rankings, often in the Top 10 even, I think it's fair to say it is less liked than TLD.

    DAD - no mystery here. The least liked of Brosnan's tenure and often found at the bottom of rankings of the franchise.

    SP - if you look at ratings by critics and audience SP is more or less on par with QOS just now, but ratings will rather go down than up with time and I believe in a couple of years SP will have the unlucky fate of being regarded as Craig's least good Bond movie.

    This may all be coincidence of course, maybe not so much with Connery and Moore as it was their 6th respectively 7th movie and maybe the high point in an actor's Bond tenure happens in his earlier films.
    GF (3rd)
    TSWLM (3rd)
    TLD (1st)
    GE (1st)
    CR (1st)

    Don't be alarmed if you disagree, it is my assessment of things.
    If you have other theories, it will be interesting to get to know them :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    How do you know Spectre is the last of Craig?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    How do you know Spectre is the last of Craig?

    I'm clairvoyant.
    Or it is an educated guess.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    It is BECAUSE they are viewed with mixed feelings that they ARE last. That's why their respective actors never did another one, because reception wasn't too good. Same goes for OHMSS. If it was received better, whatever his agent said, of course he'd have done another one.

    OHMSS - 9/24
    DAF - 24/24
    AVTAK - 19/24
    LTK - 12/24
    DAD - 22/24
    SP - 16/24

    Yes none of them do too well for me except for OHMSS and that doesn't really count.
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »

    This may all be coincidence of course, maybe not so much with Connery and Moore as it was their 6th respectively 7th movie and maybe the high point in an actor's Bond tenure happens in his earlier films.
    GF (3rd)
    TSWLM (3rd)
    TLD (1st)
    GE (1st)
    CR (1st)

    I would agree completely with that assessment. And so would the public, actually.
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