DAF, AVTAK, LTK, DAD and SP - Why the last of each era is viewed upon with mixed feelings.

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  • Posts: 1,052
    The last film for each actor has fizzled a bit, but they never really seemed sure it was going to be the last. They never gave a proper send off. Technically YOLT would have been Sean's last film but they probably didn't believe him so they didn't promote it that way. Lazenby only made on so that doesn't really count. DAF, they probably thought they could maybe get Connery to come back again, with a big money offer.

    AVTAK, did they no for sure this was Rog's last one, you would assume so? But they didn't up the ante at all and didn't make reference to it being a farewell in any promotion.

    Dalton's reign obviously ended with a massive gap in the films so that was unfortunate and then Brozzer was assumed to be coming back and then they changed direction.

    No actor has had a proper send off, seems like EON have missed a financial trick with this but I'm sure if DC makes one more they will make a big deal out of it being his last!
  • Posts: 3,333
    Just re-reading a few of the comments here on the subject of DAF, and having been somebody who saw the movie on its initial release back in 71, I'd like to add that there was never ever any intention of DAF being a direct sequel to OHMSS after Lazenby stood down. I think @DarthDimi has summed it up best with his astute observations on David V. Picker and Cubby Broccoli wanting to distance themselves from OHMSS by picking up where Connery left off, as if OHMSS had never happend (Saltzman mostly took a back seat on DAF). Hence, why there is no mention of Tracy or Bond having been married. The PTS is simply Bond searching for Blofeld, he gives us no reason as to why and leaves it up to us to decide whether it's a nod towards OHMSS or the close of YOLT. It's meant to be ambiguous. If you don't like it, that's fine, lay the blame squarely at the feet of Cubby and Picker, but don't blame Connery for this decision. He still turned in a good performance, even the critics at the time agree on that.

    And "yes" it is an outlandish movie, not cartoonish, as cartoonish would be Bond producing a Tarzan yell swinging through the trees, firing lasers in space, riding a Q-equipped gondola through Venice or fighting a webbed-hand man in a giant submersible called Atlantis in TSWLM, to name but a few of the more "cartoonish" Sir Roger moments. There's also the belief that DAF is the start of the more comedic Bonds, though I'd say there were only ever 2 straight Bond movies to begin with: Dr No and FRWL. Goldfinger was where Bond got more far-fetched and humorous, though I will concede TB drew back a little from this with Terry Young back in the director's chair. YOLT was pretty outlandish, too. It was really only OHMSS that got back to basics. But we know what happened here, don't we, guys?

    I remember when Bond first came out on VHS, most people skipped OHMSS back then and went straight to DAF after YOLT. (Not me, of course, I was always a huge OHMSS fan). It's only since the DVD box sets and a new generation of fans that the confusion appears to have arisen about the link from OHMSS to DAF.
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    edited April 2016 Posts: 292
    SPECTRE is "the end of an era". Really?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    SPECTRE is "the end of an era". Really?

    As for now, yes. The second another Craig Bond is announced I will change the title :)
  • Posts: 2,341
    I submit to you:
    DAF was well received but an aging and overweight Connery with a bad fitting dog just underlined the fact that Sean had outgrown the part...

    AVTAK ended the Moore era. We were treated to a rehash of GF with a Bond actor who had reached the end of his era and his good looks had faded. It stretched the viewers suspension of belief to believe that this old fart could seduce the likes of Staci Sutton and the beautiful Soviet agent.

    DAD is plagued by science fiction, bad dialogue and EON attempting to pay homage for the 40th anniversary. The result: in a word it sucked

    SP all indicators point that this is Craig's final film. an enjoyable film but it suffers from having to follow SF. A highly popular film (despite the plot holes)

    my two cents for what its worth...
  • Posts: 3,333
    I agree, @Birdleson. After writing my post I suddenly recalled the PTS of FYEO having that graveyard scene with Tracy's gravestone. Though, I think the only purpose it served was to provide a connection to the bald-headed guy (in-house joke) in the wheelchair, who used to be credited as "?" and not Blofeld.

    But you're right, @Birdleson, OHMSS is now seen as the proper Bond story and DAF is now seen as the anomaly. I'm not quite sure when that started, because I do recall seeing DAF again at a cinema in '77 (England) and the cinema was packed, almost as much as if it were a new release.
  • edited April 2016 Posts: 1,817
    Simply put, if the film was NOT viewed with mixed feelings, it would not have been the last of the era!!! The actor would have made another one!

    Not true of DAF but still.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    LTK is class. I love this film. Yes Bond is underdressed throughout and the the production values could be better. But Dalton IS Fleming's character incarnet.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 2016 Posts: 18,281
    Is Spectre actually the last of the Craig era though?

    In reality, aren't we jumping the gun a tad here?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Is Spectre actually the last of the Craig era though?

    In reality, aren't we jumping the gun a tad here?

    Craig's imminent departure seems as likely as Waltz playing Blofeld. At this point, I'd be surprised if Craig did return for a fifth; not that I'd be upset if he did, of course.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Is Spectre actually the last of the Craig era though?

    In reality, aren't we jumping the gun a tad here?

    Craig's imminent departure seems as likely as Waltz playing Blofeld. At this point, I'd be surprised if Craig did return for a fifth; not that I'd be upset if he did, of course.

    I heard there was talk that Waltz wasn't returning. Has that been confirmed though?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Last I heard, Waltz stated he'd return for two more, if Craig did. Thus, I can only assume he won't come back if Craig doesn't, but who knows at this point.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Last I heard, Waltz stated he'd return for two more, if Craig did. Thus, I can only assume he won't come back if Craig doesn't, but who knows at this point.

    I see. I've purposely been trying to avoid all the chatter on a possible new Bond etc. as truth be told it really bores me to tears. When there's something concrete it'll pick up my interest again but until then...
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Dragonpol

    Yes the thread's title is a bit assuming.
    I will talk to the author of this thread.

    Wait...oh...ok, that's myself.
    I shall have a word with myself then and see if anything can be done :))
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Not to worry - I'd no idea who started it. It was just a passing suggestion!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I really enjoy LTK (it just cracks my top 10). Dalton definitely had much more to give and was cut down too early imho.

    I hated DAF as a kid but enjoy it much more now. I find the others (AVTAK, SP, DAD) subpar. They all are very much in the lower half of my rankings.
  • Posts: 486
    DAF - A huge guilty pleasure of mine, joint favourite Connery film with Thunderball. Connery in terrific form and clearly enjoying himself and relishing Mankiewicz's script. Rather than the end of an era this is the template of the Moore films to come in which Connery would have done just fine. Witty action/thrillers but still with a tough, cruel element.

    AVTAK - In 1985 it felt fresh thanks to the little touches of the credits, Duran Duran and Barry's score. I enjoyed it was sad enough with the news of Moore's permanent departure. Of course these were really hollow gestures to fool us in what was really a stale and repetitive entry. By the time the film was available to buy on VHS I'd realised it is one of my least favourite Bond films. Least favourite Moore alongside LALD.

    DAD - Never a fan of Brozza but the trailers for this had me enthused enough. The prospect of a down and out imprisoned Bond at the start then getting cleaned up and embroiled in an outlandish plot could have put it as my favourite post LTK entry. Sadly the cinematic experience only proved how much I still felt uncomfortable with the overall Brosnan era. The audience were laughing uproariously and I just sunk in my seat wishing for a Bond film that took itself more seriously and had the audience gripped. Thank goodness for the impact Bourne Identity would have and the casting of Craig.

    SP - As someone whom found QOS to be much better than the critics made out and SF to be distinctly overrated it's no surprise that I don't share in the general consensus on hating this film. Yes it meanders thanks to the script problems and lacks an iconic defining moment or action scene but at the start of the film it's nice to see Craig having fun and being so prominent after being somewhat of a supporting player to Judi Dench in SF. I personally like the film as it becomes more dour like QOS near the end.

    Yes the London finale seems rather anti-cliImatic but is just about redeemed by the Westminster bridge scene with Newman's score and the cinematography evoking a wonderful hellish moment. I had thought this would be the second of a trilogy but I appreciate now Craig really has signed off.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Nicely written. What about LTK @Cowley.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2016 Posts: 17,801
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nicely written. What about LTK @Cowley.
    @Cowley basically shares my own views (although I believe I like SP even more than he does...).

    LTK is an absolute mess.
    But I like it messy, which is why it's my #2 Bond movie!
    Super-serious ("Honeymooooon"), super goofy ("I hope you don't snore, Q"), sublimely touching ("He was married once...")- this one has it all, but mostly it has Dalton, breezing his way through it, commanding our attention, and delivering the determined Bond performance of a lifetime. If Barry had done the score it'd be my #1.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited May 2016 Posts: 7,134
    I don't think LTK was that unsuccesful. It faired pretty good in Europe and several critics at the time liked it. It got a bad reputation because legal issues put Bond on hold.

    In retrospect many connaisseurs consider it to be ahead of its time. Out of all the films listed here LTK doesn't seem to have such a bad name.

    DAF, AVTAK and DAD have the problem of an era dragging itself to the end. While I can appreciate the first two, neither have the energy of LTK.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    I've said it before, but imo AVTAK isn't such a bad film. The only real problem it has is Moore's age. If you can look past that it's actually quite a good film, way better then DAF or DAD.

    DAD I solely blame on the director, whom to my eyes apparently never understood Bond and found himself playing in a toy store instead of making a film. How else could the director of 'Once Were Worriors' come up with something so rediculous. Imagine hiring a director known for his gritty, realistic films and then find yourself looking at invisible cars....

    DAF was perhaps too much the end of an era. Again it's the directing and editing that are the true culprits here, allthough I must say the script isn't strong either. I have a brother too, you know.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I have a brother too, you know.
    I love that line. More so Connery's reply. It's a bit of an elitist dig at a certain type of stereotypical American.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    bondjames wrote: »
    I have a brother too, you know.
    I love that line. More so Connery's reply. It's a bit of an elitist dig at a certain type of stereotypical American.

    Yes, the snobbery has left Bond now. Another casualty of the franchise.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    @CommanderRoss I agree on AVTAK not being that bad. It's a far more gritty film than OP was, it has a great villain and a wonderful ally. One of the franchise's best finales and a brilliant score as well.

    Nevertheless, the stunt doubling and the Paris car chase always bothered me. Still like this film more than a few other of the Moore entries to be honest.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss I agree on AVTAK not being that bad. It's a far more gritty film than OP was, it has a great villain and a wonderful ally. One of the franchise's best finales and a brilliant score as well.

    Nevertheless, the stunt doubling and the Paris car chase always bothered me. Still like this film more than a few other of the Moore entries to be honest.

    Oh sure it has it's percs, it isn't the best in the franchise, but as you say, certainly not Moore's worst. He allready knew he was getting too old, but Cubby was adamant he should do one more. Well, nobody is perfect ;-) . I agree on both the stunt-doubling ( a direct result of his age) and the car chase. But then again, especially the latter, it was still Moore's era, and he always had some goofy things in it.

    @bondjames sure it was a dig at a stereotype, but I find it highly unlikely a hood with such intellect would be send on such a mission. He wouldn't even be able to hold up a lickuor store.... All in all, a too easy joke to make. But then again, DAF isn't really laced with high quality diologue anyway...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @CommanderRoss, I've noticed that Hamilton does take a few digs at Yanks. JW, the other fat cop in DAF, Plenty, Whyte etc. He seems to have fun with the stereotype.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    bondjames wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss, I've noticed that Hamilton does take a few digs at Yanks. JW, the other fat cop in DAF, Plenty, Whyte etc. He seems to have fun with the stereotype.

    You're quite right. Can't complain about Plenty though.. ;-)
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    bondjames wrote: »
    I have a brother too, you know.
    I love that line. More so Connery's reply. It's a bit of an elitist dig at a certain type of stereotypical American.

    Yes, the snobbery has left Bond now. Another casualty of the franchise.

    Shame.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It's been replaced with a prissy haughtiness.
    Dan sold it well though IMHO.
  • Didn't LTK only make slightly less than AVTAK? Which wasn't a failure?
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