DAF, AVTAK, LTK, DAD and SP - Why the last of each era is viewed upon with mixed feelings.

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Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As much as I wasn't looking forward to Brosnan taking over the role, he definitely brought the excitement and buzz back to the character.

    :-O

    From YOU this is amAZzing. =D>
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Didn't LTK only make slightly less than AVTAK? Which wasn't a failure?

    AVTAK made over 50 million, LTK only 34, and that was four years later. That is a 25% drop, pretty significant. But even more damaging was that nobody seemed to care about the Dalton films. There was no internet, but it was just the general vibe. That electricity was gone. As much as I wasn't looking forward to Brosnan taking over the role, he definitely brought the excitement and buzz back to the character.

    According to this site:
    http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond#tab=summary


    the numbers are as follows:
    May 24, 1985 A View to a Kill
    budget opening domestic total
    $30,000,000 $13,294,435 $49,667,091 $151,967,091
    Jul 31, 1987 The Living Daylights
    $40,000,000 $11,051,284 $50,096,813 $190,111,813
    Jul 14, 1989 Licence to Kill
    $42,000,000 $8,774,776 $33,197,509 $154,697,509

    So LTK did in effect a little better then AVTAK, but significantly worse in the US. TLD did better then both.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I was goi g by IMDB.

    Well domestically, as in US domestic, you were right. But world wide you weren't. The Bond-frenchise has since then moved more and more in that direction, with worldwide grosses growing, whilst the US results lack now and then.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    I was checking some Box Office results, and LTK was a bigger success in France than 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier'. So I guess everything is relative.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Goes to show that the US market is important. I've said that before, and it should be kept in mind post-SP. It's not as important proportionally as it was before, but it's still a heavy player culturally for the Bond people. They care how a film is perceived and received in the US market, as they should.

    To date, I personally am in agreement with the US evaluation, box office wise, of Craig's tenure.

    -CR started very small (since nobody knew who Craig was) and then started to grow during its run, with tremendous legs. If he was better known back then, this could have been a bigger success.
    -QoS was a little less successful on a ticket sales basis (which I think was an accurate depiction of the film vs. CR).
    -SF was a monster success (on account of the addition of IMAX, higher ticket prices in the 4 yrs since QoS, and because it was a bloody good film).
    -SP has sold the least tickets in the Craig era, which is also quite a reasonable result. I think most people would agree that it should be the least successful of his run.
  • Posts: 486
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nicely written. What about LTK @Cowley.

    Oh duh! Yes what about LTK! Love it.

    1988 was the year I became a hardcore Bond fan. Bought the Fleming re-issues, the videos, joined the fan club and followed the making of LTK avidly. Perhaps understandably the film didn't quite live up to the hype I was creating within my own mind for the film.

    It was always great once it hits Isthmus city but before then I found it meandered somewhat with the umpteenth return of Bond back to Leiter's house which seemed the very opposite of the 'Fleming sweep' in which the momentum built and built.

    So i returned home a little deflated as the film hadn't delivered in the way I wanted but at the same time I Immediately yearned to re-evaluate it. Due to the blockbuster competition that summer - not the era of the multiplex - I couldn't do so until the video release and with the appreciation that at that point this may have been the last Bond film for a long time it really made me savour it and appreciate it for what it was.

    It's a terrific action thriller, which Glen always excelled at, and lack of Fleming sweep aside is tremendously Flemingesque in which a Bond against all odds, and not without avoiding physical injury at the end, brings down an entire organisation.

    For me Davi remains a villain whom has yet to be surpassed since. I like the relationship that develops between Sanchez of Bond and for once you actually have a villain that you feel pity for as you see his trust in those around him eroded away. I can't fault the truck sequences and the climax but in some ways it would have been nice to end with a more brutal one on one physical fight between the two.

    LTK was the unfortunate end of an era but I don't see the reception to the film being entirely to blame. Even without the legal dispute which caused the hiatus let's not forget that infamous interview with Dalton in the Bondian fanzine in which he said he felt this may be the last Bond film for some time and apologised for saying so. This was a comment he made on the set of the film so some of us were led to expect a gap even before any damning reviews or underwhelming box office take.

    So in some ways it may seem that Dalton's era was cut short like with Brosnan - and I sure wish we'd had more from Tim - but in other respects, such as with that interview comment, it had always been known to be so from the outset.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    DAF is the embracing of out and out silliness. Connery is practically sleep walking through the film. No longer attempting to play the character of Bond. It has bizarre little moments but I think it's the first time the bond series truly doesn't know what it's trying to do. The script and direction smacks of laziness. Even the editing - with the randomness of placement of Barry's soundtrack is haphazard. The film reeks of running scared from OHMSS, grabbing Connery and trying to stay alive.

    AVTAK gets and - even in 85 - got a lot stick because of Moore's age. I think it was that sense ever since FYEO of not if but when Moore was going, also the series is coasting on formula at this stage. But it was still relevant because of that Duran Duran song and accompanying video - that was on air on a scale unparalleled since.

    LTK was a risk - since OHMSS - the first one to really mess with the formula. The violence and lack of megalomaniac villain, updated to a real world scenario of drug manufacturing. And the legendary blockbuster year of 89. Many reasons for this to be marked as a concern for the Bond series - especially with hindsight through the prism of the ensuing 6 year delay. Lest we forget that Richard Maibum passed away around this time and he was an important shaper of the Bond legacy until that point.

    DAD was pretty awful - TWINE had enough concerns scattered throughout it but DAD was like DAF - another complete embrace of absurdity and both kind of feel cheap - you can see the production cutting costs or using dodgy technology. (Early 2000s were the awkward puberty stage of special effects as Mummy Returns can attest to) DAD also now suffers from the complete nose-bleed inducing U-turn that Craig's style with CR offers.

    I don't believe SP will be Craig's last - but if it is then it feels like a series dipping its toe in to the waters of its glorious past (Moore, latter Connery) while gripping firmly to the safety of the dry land of recent history (QoS, SF). Tonally messy and not convinced of which direction it's heading in.

    I think that there is one time when the series rights itself without changing actor and that is TSWLM. That is a real step up from MWTGG. It has daring and style. And I say this without that film breaching my top five. It has many issues - being derivative of YOLT especially. But it is one time the film makers really struck a chord with the audience while what looked to be in the grips of a downward the cycle. GF is obviously the game changer but had momentum on the back of two great critical and commercially successful films in DN and FRWL rather than the uncertainty of LALD and MWTGG. But that's why I love bond - he always lives twice...
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