Moore was 45 in LALD, how long did EON expect him/Bond to last?

13

Comments

  • Agent005 wrote:
    Can't say I'd miss Brosnan. Same way that I can't say I'd miss Moore. Lazenby should have been in from '69 to '79.

    I'd miss any of them, but dalton, brosnan and connery are the ones I'd miss most.
  • Posts: 1,092
    Not just in the USA, Luds. LTK made 39.1 million ticket sales world wide... That is 9 million less than TLD, 42 millions less than GE and 46 millions less than MR. Another Dalton film that would most likely decrease attendance, and the series is over.

    Sorry to back this up from the first page but it's ridiculous to believe any actor would kill this franchise. EVERY Bond film has been a huge hit financially. Even LTK made around four times its cost. Plus with DVD sales, TV money, cable, etc. There are so many avenues for a film to make a profit, it's very short sighted to believe the series would have ended entirely with another Dalton film. If anything, they would have let him go and we'd still get GE just like normal. Nothing would have changed except we'd have an extra Dalts.
  • The_Reaper wrote:
    Not just in the USA, Luds. LTK made 39.1 million ticket sales world wide... That is 9 million less than TLD, 42 millions less than GE and 46 millions less than MR. Another Dalton film that would most likely decrease attendance, and the series is over.

    Sorry to back this up from the first page but it's ridiculous to believe any actor would kill this franchise. EVERY Bond film has been a huge hit financially. Even LTK made around four times its cost. Plus with DVD sales, TV money, cable, etc. There are so many avenues for a film to make a profit, it's very short sighted to believe the series would have ended entirely with another Dalton film. If anything, they would have let him go and we'd still get GE just like normal. Nothing would have changed except we'd have an extra Dalts.

    exactly. GE would still have been succesful with dalton
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    So Roger Moore was 45 in <i>Live And Let Die</i> and that got me thinking, why hire someone older than Connery in on ongoing film series? Did EON not expect Bond to last with Moore and for the series to end (as many thought it would), or perhaps they only wanted him to do a few films.

    What do you think?

    At that point, I'm not even sure they were thinking in terms of longevity. I think they wanted a success without Connery and they'd worry about it more later. (I think this was the beginning of signing an actor to a 3-picture deal with an option for a fourth.)
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 1,778
    Samuel001 wrote:
    So Roger Moore was 45 in <i>Live And Let Die</i> and that got me thinking, why hire someone older than Connery in on ongoing film series? Did EON not expect Bond to last with Moore and for the series to end (as many thought it would), or perhaps they only wanted him to do a few films.

    What do you think?

    At that point, I'm not even sure they were thinking in terms of longevity. I think they wanted a success without Connery and they'd worry about it more later. (I think this was the beginning of signing an actor to a 3-picture deal with an option for a fourth.)

    Exactly. At that point the only Bond other than Connery was George Lazenby. And although OHMSS was a financial success it didn't do Connery numbers and public reaction to Lazenby was negative. After Connery offcially retired after DAF Im sure EON was more worried about the future than they let on. They didn't want a repeat of Lazenby so they had to hire a known actor to stand up next to Connery's image. And Moore was the perfect choice as he practically was the television version of James Bond during the 60s with The Saint. It was a matter of re-establishing themselves. Longevity came second. Plus I'm not entirly sure if they saw the Bond series as going on much longer than the 70s, if even that. After all TMWTGG was almost the last Bond film.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    come to think about it both Connery and Moore had the longest runs: (they both have 7 films-im including NSNA),

    i am happy somehow that Lazenby did sort of returned as "JB" in The Return of The Man From UNCLE in 1983 as a cameo so thats a sort of relief

    i think that Brosnan should have had atleast had one (maybe 2) more bond movies- a redemption for the product placement Die Another Day- well Everything or Nothing would have made an excellent film.

    i do believe that Timothy should have made atleast 2 more films- from what i heard about the original Bond 17 it would have been terrific to see him against androids in Shanghai.
  • Posts: 1,092

    Exactly. At that point the only Bond other than Connery was George Lazenby. And although OHMSS was a financial success it didn't do Connery numbers and public reaction to Lazenby was negative. After Connery offcially retired after DAF Im sure EON was more worried about the future than they let on. They didn't want a repeat of Lazenby so they had to hire a known actor to stand up next to Connery's image. And Moore was the perfect choice as he practically was the television version of James Bond during the 60s with The Saint. It was a matter of re-establishing themselves. Longevity came second. Plus I'm not entirly sure if they saw the Bond series as going on much longer than the 70s, if even that. After all TMWTGG was almost the last Bond film.


    How's that?
  • The_Reaper wrote:

    Exactly. At that point the only Bond other than Connery was George Lazenby. And although OHMSS was a financial success it didn't do Connery numbers and public reaction to Lazenby was negative. After Connery offcially retired after DAF Im sure EON was more worried about the future than they let on. They didn't want a repeat of Lazenby so they had to hire a known actor to stand up next to Connery's image. And Moore was the perfect choice as he practically was the television version of James Bond during the 60s with The Saint. It was a matter of re-establishing themselves. Longevity came second. Plus I'm not entirly sure if they saw the Bond series as going on much longer than the 70s, if even that. After all TMWTGG was almost the last Bond film.


    How's that?

    TMWTGG's less than impressive gross (with inflation taken into account the lowest grossing Bond film until LTK) combined with Harry Saltzman having to sell his shares of EON put the series in jeporady. Ending it all was considered as United Artists were questioning if the series had finally run it's course. Why do you think it took 3 years to release TSWLM as opposed to the usual 2 years or even year and a half at the time. But fan support was vey high and Cubby was tenacious to make sure the series continued.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 2,115
    The_Reaper wrote:

    Exactly. At that point the only Bond other than Connery was George Lazenby. And although OHMSS was a financial success it didn't do Connery numbers and public reaction to Lazenby was negative. After Connery offcially retired after DAF Im sure EON was more worried about the future than they let on. They didn't want a repeat of Lazenby so they had to hire a known actor to stand up next to Connery's image. And Moore was the perfect choice as he practically was the television version of James Bond during the 60s with The Saint. It was a matter of re-establishing themselves. Longevity came second. Plus I'm not entirly sure if they saw the Bond series as going on much longer than the 70s, if even that. After all TMWTGG was almost the last Bond film.


    How's that?

    There was a big decline in box office receipts between Live And Let Die and The Man With the Golden Gun.

    LALD had a worldwide box office gross of almost $162 million worldwide -- the first Bond film to exceed Thunderball (LALD's U.S. nubers still trailled Thunderball). TMWTGG had a worldwide gross of $97.6 million. (And in the U.S., it did less business than On Her Majesty's Secret Service, which had been considered disappointing at the time.)

    http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/JamesBond.php

    In retrospect, you can ask what were they worried about? At the time, the future of James Bond seemed less than secure, and *then* you had the Broccoli and Saltzman separation.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    The_Reaper wrote:
    Not just in the USA, Luds. LTK made 39.1 million ticket sales world wide... That is 9 million less than TLD, 42 millions less than GE and 46 millions less than MR. Another Dalton film that would most likely decrease attendance, and the series is over.

    Sorry to back this up from the first page but it's ridiculous to believe any actor would kill this franchise. EVERY Bond film has been a huge hit financially. Even LTK made around four times its cost. Plus with DVD sales, TV money, cable, etc. There are so many avenues for a film to make a profit, it's very short sighted to believe the series would have ended entirely with another Dalton film. If anything, they would have let him go and we'd still get GE just like normal. Nothing would have changed except we'd have an extra Dalts.

    LTK had catastrophic ticket sales. 39.10 millions world wide only, compared to 85 millions world wide for MR only 10 years prior. What would have happened if Dalton had made another ? Would the ticket sales be below 35 millions for Bond 17 ?
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 1,778
    The_Reaper wrote:
    Not just in the USA, Luds. LTK made 39.1 million ticket sales world wide... That is 9 million less than TLD, 42 millions less than GE and 46 millions less than MR. Another Dalton film that would most likely decrease attendance, and the series is over.

    Sorry to back this up from the first page but it's ridiculous to believe any actor would kill this franchise. EVERY Bond film has been a huge hit financially. Even LTK made around four times its cost. Plus with DVD sales, TV money, cable, etc. There are so many avenues for a film to make a profit, it's very short sighted to believe the series would have ended entirely with another Dalton film. If anything, they would have let him go and we'd still get GE just like normal. Nothing would have changed except we'd have an extra Dalts.

    LTK had catastrophic ticket sales. 39.10 millions world wide only, compared to 85 millions world wide for MR only 10 years prior. What would have happened if Dalton had made another ? Would the ticket sales be below 35 millions for Bond 17 ?

    @DaltonCraig you should now that ticket sales for the Bond series don't follow a downward trend. The notion of Dalton's next film having lesser success just for that reason is ridiculous. TMWTGG had pitiful ticket sales by Bond standards. By your logic shouldn't have TSWLM grossed even less? It didn't and ended up being a huge success that re-establised the franchise. Who knows. Maybe Dalton's third would've been his equivalent of TSWLM.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,718
    @DaltonCraig you should now that ticket sales for the Bond series don't follow a downward trend. The notion of Dalton's next film having lesser success just for that reason is ridiculous. TMWTGG had pitiful ticket sales by Bond standards. By your logic shouldn't have TSWLM grossed even less? It didn't and ended up being a huge success that re-establised the franchise. Who knows. Maybe Dalton's third would've been his equivalent of TSWLM.

    The ticket sales was going down steadily since FYEO in 1981. I don't see what could have changed the trend in 1991.
  • @DaltonCraig you should now that ticket sales for the Bond series don't follow a downward trend. The notion of Dalton's next film having lesser success just for that reason is ridiculous. TMWTGG had pitiful ticket sales by Bond standards. By your logic shouldn't have TSWLM grossed even less? It didn't and ended up being a huge success that re-establised the franchise. Who knows. Maybe Dalton's third would've been his equivalent of TSWLM.

    The ticket sales was going down steadily since FYEO in 1981. I don't see what could have changed the trend in 1991.

    Octopussy was a bigger hit than For Your Eyes Only. The Living Daylights was a much bigger hit than A View To A Kill. I didn't see this as going down. No the grosses weren't as good as the 60s films but that was hardly Dalton's fault. If they just gave the series a longer gap than usual, like they did with TSWLM, I believe public interest would have been gained.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,718
    Actually OP sold 11 millions less tickets than FYEO, which is a bigger gap than from AVTAK to TLD (only 6 millions more tickets sold for TLD compared to AVTAK).
  • Posts: 1,052
    TMWTGG sold 52 million tickets, which would equate to over $400 million in todays money, so much more succesful than LTK, but for both these films it was the US market that let them down, perhaps as TMWTGG only came out a year later and had poor reviews that people thought it had been rushed out?

    I'm not sure why LTK didn't do that well, I don't think the fact that a lot of other big films came out that summer, because would still have watched LTK if they really wanted to. Maybe the masses just didn't take to Dalton that much, does anyone remeber the general feeling at the time?
  • Actually OP sold 11 millions less tickets than FYEO, which is a bigger gap than from AVTAK to TLD (only 6 millions more tickets sold for TLD compared to AVTAK).

    A bigger gap? By what a few weeks. All four films were released during the summer months of their respective years. Had Dalton's third film taken a 3 or 4 year break it would've enjoyed the Goldeneye effect of making a comeback.

    And Im pretty sure OP outgrossed FYEO.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,718
    Here are the world-wide admissions from DN to CR.

    worldadmissions.png

    OP sold 11 million less tickets than FYEO.
    TLD only sold 6 million more tickets than AVTAK.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 1,778
    Here are the world-wide admissions from DN to CR.

    worldadmissions.png

    OP sold 11 million less tickets than FYEO.
    TLD only sold 6 million more tickets than AVTAK.

    I stand corrected. But if the actors are to blame than it's just as much Roger Moore's fault. But I don't blame the actors. The series needed a break and was dealing with some very stiff competition.

    And damn I didn't realise how much of a drop YOLT suffered after TB.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,355
    The_Reaper wrote:

    Exactly. At that point the only Bond other than Connery was George Lazenby. And although OHMSS was a financial success it didn't do Connery numbers and public reaction to Lazenby was negative. After Connery offcially retired after DAF Im sure EON was more worried about the future than they let on. They didn't want a repeat of Lazenby so they had to hire a known actor to stand up next to Connery's image. And Moore was the perfect choice as he practically was the television version of James Bond during the 60s with The Saint. It was a matter of re-establishing themselves. Longevity came second. Plus I'm not entirly sure if they saw the Bond series as going on much longer than the 70s, if even that. After all TMWTGG was almost the last Bond film.


    How's that?

    TMWTGG's less than impressive gross (with inflation taken into account the lowest grossing Bond film until LTK) combined with Harry Saltzman having to sell his shares of EON put the series in jeporady. Ending it all was considered as United Artists were questioning if the series had finally run it's course. Why do you think it took 3 years to release TSWLM as opposed to the usual 2 years or even year and a half at the time. But fan support was vey high and Cubby was tenacious to make sure the series continued.

    It was actually only two and a half years. Some other Bond films by that time had had just over two year gaps, so it wasn't that bigger deal, the wait between The Man With The Golden Gun and The Spy Who Loved Me, though it was the longest yet.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Samuel001 wrote:
    The_Reaper wrote:

    Exactly. At that point the only Bond other than Connery was George Lazenby. And although OHMSS was a financial success it didn't do Connery numbers and public reaction to Lazenby was negative. After Connery offcially retired after DAF Im sure EON was more worried about the future than they let on. They didn't want a repeat of Lazenby so they had to hire a known actor to stand up next to Connery's image. And Moore was the perfect choice as he practically was the television version of James Bond during the 60s with The Saint. It was a matter of re-establishing themselves. Longevity came second. Plus I'm not entirly sure if they saw the Bond series as going on much longer than the 70s, if even that. After all TMWTGG was almost the last Bond film.


    How's that?

    TMWTGG's less than impressive gross (with inflation taken into account the lowest grossing Bond film until LTK) combined with Harry Saltzman having to sell his shares of EON put the series in jeporady. Ending it all was considered as United Artists were questioning if the series had finally run it's course. Why do you think it took 3 years to release TSWLM as opposed to the usual 2 years or even year and a half at the time. But fan support was vey high and Cubby was tenacious to make sure the series continued.

    It was actually only two and a half years. Some other Bond films by that time had had just over two year gaps, so it wasn't that bigger deal, the wait between The Man With The Golden Gun and The Spy Who Loved Me, though it was the longest yet.

    The 2.5 year gap between Gun and Spy was the same as the 2.5 year gap between TB and OHMSS
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,355
    Except you mean @NicNac, You Only Live Twice, not Thunderball but indeed I thought there was another 2.5 year gap somewhere. Thanks for finding it!
  • Posts: 825
    Well it was alright in age 45. But he should left after For your eyes only.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 1,497
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Except you mean @NicNac, You Only Live Twice, not Thunderball but indeed I thought there was another 2.5 year gap somewhere. Thanks for finding it!

    Production ran almost a year on OHMSS: a long time in those days, due to replacing the entire 2nd unit midway through filming. They probably could have had OHMSS out for summer '69, instead of December '69, if things ran on a normal schedule. Whereas the Golden Gun-Spy gap probably had more to do with the studio-beurocratic wranglings mentioned above: still impressive though in hindsight, that Cubby was able to crank Spy out a mere 2.5 years later despite those issues.
  • Don't think I ever replied to this but in any event while are all aware that Lazenby should really of been a mainstay of Bond during the 1970s if not for the questionable advice of his agent of the time and done several more Bond features after OHMSS, I generally liked Moore for the most part as 007, it's only when it got to the stages of Octopussy and thereafter it all went a bit haywire, he seemed perfectly capable and believable in Live And Let Die, yes he was in his mid 40s but so what, he did a fine job in my own personal favorite Bond release, it's genuinely true he should of departed/stood down say after Moonraker but what's done is done and there's no turning back the clock after the event and changing anything now

    It's almost a certainty we will never again see a Bond actor reach 57 years of age again for a Bond picture as Moore did in 1985 or anywhere near it even, it was a Bond movie mainly played for laughs, as with Octopussy, and while I appreciate some may have liked it or found it somewhat enthralling for me it's usually a release or two to overlook, simply on the basis for one thing, that Moore was too old and it certainly showed at times

    Actually thinking about it now, maybe I wouldn't have wanted Brosnan as Bond any time during the 1980s, if Dalton could of made it and he was able to, I would of liked to have seen him about three releases before his debut, as he said OHMSS in 1969 he felt he was too young and I quite agree on that, I think the advent of the 1980s would of been more appropriate and not any time sooner
  • Posts: 1,497
    Luds wrote:
    Moore had such a baby face all his life that he looked much younger at 45 than Connert did at 35!

    I don't think I've directly answered this either...and I must say I agree with Luds here. Honestly I thought Moore actually looked too boyish in LALD. Connery was more creased and weathered in 1962 by comparison. I think Moore looked better and more believable the more he aged. He was in his prime from Spy through FYEO as far as looks and agility is concerned. He was still convincing in OP, but that should have been his last one.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,718
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Luds wrote:
    Moore had such a baby face all his life that he looked much younger at 45 than Connert did at 35!
    I don't think I've directly answered this either...and I must say I agree with Luds here. Honestly I thought Moore actually looked too boyish in LALD. Connery was more creased and weathered in 1962 by comparison.

    Moore was, what, 14 years older in LALD than Connery in DN ?
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Luds wrote:
    Moore had such a baby face all his life that he looked much younger at 45 than Connert did at 35!

    I don't think I've directly answered this either...and I must say I agree with Luds here. Honestly I thought Moore actually looked too boyish in LALD. Connery was more creased and weathered in 1962 by comparison.

    Yup, Rog always looked five-ten years younger than his age until he hit his fifties and then age caught up with him. It's middle-aged-man syndrome. Following MR, Rog started to look his age, unquestionably.

    Same thing happened to Brosnan. He never looked quite as young as Moore when younger, but may've looked younger than he was and always looked damn good for his age. As soon as he hit his fifties, though (arguably in DAD, but definitely after it), he physically couldn't hold back the years any longer. His body just started to age. Meh, it comes/ will come to us all... ;)
  • You wouldn't think to look at him that Connery was only about 32 when he made his Bond debut, even by Goldfinger though I thought he had aged more than just two years considerably, and in 1967's You Only Live Twice the Scotsman seemed to have aged about a decade or more than the five years previous from his Bond starting

    Same as with Moore, he suddenly went from tangible Bond actor in his first two or so 007 adventures to 'Motorized cart' Bond in just the ten years or so later after his debut in his final appearances, I guess some people age quicker than others is all I can add

  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    does it really matter about how old the bonds are- Sure Roger looked a bit older in Octopussy and well despite what people say he didnt look any older- maybe in a couple of scenes in A View to a Kill (he did a great job- more on Octopussy than AVTAK)
    i mean look at Never Say Never Agian- Connery was awesome despite being older and besides the idea of an older bond is cool...i can imagine Dalton now back as Bond- look at him in Chuck and he still has the moves even Brosnan could still be Bond but he would have to have the Harrison Ford diet- what ford did to get back in the role of Indiana Jones 4 (exercise relentelessly and eat egg whites) and before you know it he would be back shaken but no disturbed
  • Posts: 1,497
    002 wrote:
    does it really matter about how old the bonds are- Sure Roger looked a bit older in Octopussy and well despite what people say he didnt look any older- maybe in a couple of scenes in A View to a Kill (he did a great job- more on Octopussy than AVTAK)
    i mean look at Never Say Never Agian- Connery was awesome despite being older and besides the idea of an older bond is cool...i can imagine Dalton now back as Bond- look at him in Chuck and he still has the moves even Brosnan could still be Bond but he would have to have the Harrison Ford diet- what ford did to get back in the role of Indiana Jones 4 (exercise relentelessly and eat egg whites) and before you know it he would be back shaken but no disturbed

    Totally agree with you. I think a Bond with some age and weather adds character. Bond comes across more of a seasoned vet in this way.

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