The case for and against... Martin Campbell

1121314151618»

Comments

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Never mind, we're good. :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Never mind, we're good. :)

    Well that’s a tease if ever there was one.

    Feel free to explain— I had no reason to think we were bad, to now be good?

    Honestly, feel free to rip and explain. If o said something so simple to obviously be offensive, pls explain. You’re hinting and pointing at something, but I’m still not clear on your messaging.

    Or PM. I’d love to know what I did …
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Done and sorted B-)
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    007HallY wrote: »
    Not sure if I'd ever describe Brosnan's Bond as foppish despite my issues with him... I'd say Craig's Bond in QOS was actually much more at ease than in CR in many ways, and his performances in SF and SP had so much to them (I'm not even sure if he's all that stoic a Bond in the grand scheme of things honestly). There's a case to be made that he looks his most confident/relaxed in SP. So yeah, not sure I can really see any of that myself... Mendes I'd argue understood Bond on a level close to Campbell in my honest opinion. Arguably more so in many ways (I certainly think he understands Fleming a bit more going from SF - Campbell seems to parrot the wrong assumption that Fleming's Bond had no sense of humour and the film version does, which I really don't agree with).

    Anyway, it's like I said, the director doesn't control the actor's performance fundamentally.

    For me Craig had none of the charisma in SF that he had in CR and QOS. He just kind blends into the scenery. He tries to be more traditionally Bondian in SP but Mendes can't bring out any emotion other than aloofness. "I came here to kill you" is such a bizarre line reading, there's no conviction in it and he races through it.

    Mendes reminds me somewhat of Lewis Gilbert in this sense, very concerned about scenery and camerawork. Connery in YOLT and Moore in TSWLM and MR also seem distant compared to their other performances. The difference is that Gilbert's movies are still fun while Mendes' are a slog for me.
  • edited June 23 Posts: 1,367
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Any director would have been better. The issue is the script. I can't imagine Campbell doing rewrites.

    The issue was the editing. It failed as a visual presentation and was a mess.

    What was wrong with the script for QoS @DEKE_RIVERS ?

    They didnt have writers, that's the problem.

    No, they had writers. And then there was a strike.

    But you fail to answer the question to your own statement: the script was the issue, you said. What was the issue with the script. I mean, @DEKE_RIVERS , there was a script, it was written, by writers, so what was the issue with the script? Or don’t you know?

    I think Forster helped with the script. I can't imagine Campbell doing that.
  • Posts: 4,161
    slide_99 wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Not sure if I'd ever describe Brosnan's Bond as foppish despite my issues with him... I'd say Craig's Bond in QOS was actually much more at ease than in CR in many ways, and his performances in SF and SP had so much to them (I'm not even sure if he's all that stoic a Bond in the grand scheme of things honestly). There's a case to be made that he looks his most confident/relaxed in SP. So yeah, not sure I can really see any of that myself... Mendes I'd argue understood Bond on a level close to Campbell in my honest opinion. Arguably more so in many ways (I certainly think he understands Fleming a bit more going from SF - Campbell seems to parrot the wrong assumption that Fleming's Bond had no sense of humour and the film version does, which I really don't agree with).

    Anyway, it's like I said, the director doesn't control the actor's performance fundamentally.

    For me Craig had none of the charisma in SF that he had in CR and QOS. He just kind blends into the scenery. He tries to be more traditionally Bondian in SP but Mendes can't bring out any emotion other than aloofness. "I came here to kill you" is such a bizarre line reading, there's no conviction in it and he races through it.

    Mendes reminds me somewhat of Lewis Gilbert in this sense, very concerned about scenery and camerawork. Connery in YOLT and Moore in TSWLM and MR also seem distant compared to their other performances. The difference is that Gilbert's movies are still fun while Mendes' are a slog for me.

    I guess it comes down to personal preference. While Connery is very bored looking in YOLT (although I’m not sure any director could have avoided that) I think Craig puts in his best Bond performance in SF, and Moore is pretty great in TSWLM. It’s a massive improvement from his performance in TMWTGG where the material he’s given makes him come off as unlikeable and a bit too tightly wound at times. Gilbert understood that Moore’s Bond needed that bit of humanising and knew how to work with Moore’s natural charisma. I’d say it’s one of the most ‘human’ Bond performances with Moore giving those subtle moments of emotion (ie. Reacting to the mention of Tracy, revealing he killed Anya’s boyfriend etc.) Craig in SF is pretty extraordinary in the sense that he seems to do so much with minimal looks and expressions, all while having that Bondian confidence (the word association test is an example - the way Bond’s expression/grin just seem to drop at the mention of Skyfall is great acting. Again, very human moment even though much like Moore in those previous examples his Bond has his guard up). They’re very similar performances in the sense their Bonds came into their own.

    I’d say Mendes and Gilbert aren’t purely stylistic directors. They seem to view camerawork and scenery as ways of working with/helping convey character/story. They aren’t Michael Bay types who prioritise elaborate camera movements and spectacle for itself. Mendes had a bit more of a consciously dark take on Bond, where Gilbert was a bit lighter. Although even then SF isn’t a dour film by any means - much of it is about Bond finding his way again, and it’s that idea that allows these really great Bondian moments to show us him getting over those obstacles - him running into the hearing/the shootout, taking M off grid and unveiling the Aston, said car getting destroyed and the Bond theme kicking in as he blows up his house - it’s the sort of stuff I’ve heard people on these forums say people cheered in the theatres during some of those moments, they’re that impactful.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,411
    peter wrote: »
    After finally watching Argyll last night, I'm a little more wary of Campbell: wasn't it common knowledge (until recently), that he was in the Cavill camp, and wanted Henry to be Bond?

    Watching Argyll last night, Cavill is incredibly disappointing. He's not offensive, but he really is the definition of a block of wood. His screen presence and delivery just hasn't got better over all these years of being in the business (in fact, I'd argue, it's got worse!!)

    The film was a hot mess, but at least the other performers leaned into the insanity and stupidity.

    Cavill was just lost.

    There's a bit where Argylle is romancing a lady on a balcony overlooking Hong Kong harbour, and he has a Bond-style knowingly cheesy line, and he kills it stone dead. You can practically hear it thud onto the floor.
    Some say that's what the gag is, that the line is supposed to be flatly delivered (as the author soon cuts into the scene and realises it's not working) but I'm really not sure I buy that- she just thinks the line is bad, not the character's delivery of it.

    I guess to defend Campbell's preference for Cavill slightly, he was casting a young, rookie Bond, so perhaps he was also thinking that Cavill's youth worked better for the script, as really Craig was too old for what was on the page.
    And this is the guy who looked at the script for a Zorro movie and decided that two thirds of the main cast (including Zorro himself) should be Welsh, so I've got to respect that :D
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    After finally watching Argyll last night, I'm a little more wary of Campbell: wasn't it common knowledge (until recently), that he was in the Cavill camp, and wanted Henry to be Bond?

    Watching Argyll last night, Cavill is incredibly disappointing. He's not offensive, but he really is the definition of a block of wood. His screen presence and delivery just hasn't got better over all these years of being in the business (in fact, I'd argue, it's got worse!!)

    The film was a hot mess, but at least the other performers leaned into the insanity and stupidity.

    Cavill was just lost.

    There's a bit where Argylle is romancing a lady on a balcony overlooking Hong Kong harbour, and he has a Bond-style knowingly cheesy line, and he kills it stone dead. You can practically hear it thud onto the floor.
    Some say that's what the gag is, that the line is supposed to be flatly delivered (as the author soon cuts into the scene and realises it's not working) but I'm really not sure I buy that- she just thinks the line is bad, not the character's delivery of it.

    I guess to defend Campbell's preference for Cavill slightly, he was casting a young, rookie Bond, so perhaps he was also thinking that Cavill's youth worked better for the script, as really Craig was too old for what was on the page.
    And this is the guy who looked at the script for a Zorro movie and decided that two thirds of the main cast (including Zorro himself) should be Welsh, so I've got to respect that :D

    Oh, Yeah @mtm He saw something in Cavill. Plus, Cavill was young. I feel if Cavill was guided by someone like Campbell early on in his acting career, it would have influenced him positively. Plus, I've always had a strong feeling that Cavill would have done great in CR under Campbell. I also agree with @CraigMooreOHMSS and I respect the perspective of @peter on the matter, even if I think otherwise :)
  • Posts: 4,161
    Cavill is capable of putting in decent performances with the right material and a director willing to guide him a bit. I don’t think Campbell would have performed a miracle and have gotten him to give the kind of performance Craig did, but I think he could have played to his strengths, approached directing the young actor in a certain way etc.

    Ultimately though, I don’t think we missed out.
Sign In or Register to comment.