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Comments
One of these was why did the writers/Mendes have Bond make phone call midway through the car chase. It totally removed any sense of urgency and danger from that sequence. It's overlong and doesn't really add much.
Another really odd thing is that we have too many villains and too many climactic scenes. C and Blofeld seems to be overdoing it. It's almost like two plots/ two movies rolled into one, with neither given enough space to breath. So although it's a long movie, you don't get very much in the way of plot or character development.
And the two climactic confrontations - the desert base and the London sequence just detract from each other. The first feels a bit perfunctory, and the second almost redundant.
Still, while these are weird elements I've come to expect from Purvis and Wade and Mendes, I thought this was a much better film than SF.
Ok I will wade in here.
This all erupted because @SpectreNumberTwo didn't rate the film as highly as other spy films released this year, which is his prerogative.
Please everyone do not resort to insults. And if one member insists on dismissing another's opinion as 'rubbish' it's really like red rag to a bull and anyone would get upset.
I'm sure @SpectreNumberTwo wants to enjoy the forum and get along with other members, and I'm sure our usual long standing members are more than willing to welcome him and his opinions.
The retcon of the previous Craig continuity was very well done. Enough information was given to convince that Quantum was a part of (or predecessor to) Spectre but not too much information. The plot, in general, held together without any gaping plot holes (unlike CR and SF).
The action scenes were generally well-done although only the train scene was a real standout. The opening sequence was good but the CGI in the helicopter fight scene was all too apparent on a big screen.
The reveal of Blofeld in the opening Spectre meeting was very very good and I enjoyed Waltz's performance although I would have loved for him to have had a little more to do / say. The boyhood relationship between Bond and Blofeld seemed unnecessary - it wasn't nearly as naff as it could have been but it also didn't really go anywhere - they just knew each other briefly as boys and the relationship contributed to Blofeld's daddy issues. That whole strand of the story could have been dropped without damage.
The relationship with Madeleine didn't have the depth it seemed to require.
It was interesting that M introduced himself as "Mallory, 00 Section". I understand that MI5 and MI6 have now merged but that seems like quite a demotion.
The final scene certainly feels like a swansong for Craig but we shall see - there is
I agree with all of this. Loved the train sequence and the brief reference to the title song.
I would add that Ben Whishaw has transformed from one of the most annoying characters in the series to an excellent Q in the space of one movie. I loved the way they'd tweaked the character so he's not only a computer nerd but also handing proper hardware. And the part is much better written (and funnier) this time.
I even thought Naomi Harris was better this time as well, although not sure she's particualrly good casting.
Thank You, NicNac.
- Opening sequence
- Main Titles
- Rome (tension in the meeting room, the car chase)
- Meeting with Mr. White
- Hoffner Klinik
- Train fighting scene ("Shit!")
- The scene in Marocco where Bond and Swann meet Oberhausen in the room with the meteorite, a very tense scene until Oberhausen after a silence gets back to business with Bond and Swann.
- Ending
I think this is definitely not Craig's last Bond movie.
Ok, fair enough. However, how can he love Swann after a day or so???
Maybe because everything in his life is a bit of a rollercoaster? As he said before to Swann (in the train), he doesn't think too much about it (his life, his choices made).
Ok I'll take that point. But countering that, wouldn't that make him harder to 'reach' ala CR???
Which for you all are as follows in no particular order
GF, FRWL, CR, TSWLM, OHMSS
Because I'm dissappointed in SP doesn't mean I won't ever watch it again, I will but like SF maybe not until it's on blu-ray, I watch all the Bond film's at least once a year (Except DAD, one has to have limits :))). So you see I don't think SP & SF are that bad I just think they were not great.
I was asked why I thought it was mediocre, there were many problems for me that would take pages to go through but as an example one of the biggest in SP that annoyed me was the Blofield/Oberhauser reveal,
ESB -"I'm Ernst Stavro Blofield",
JB - "Catchy Name" (something like that, sorry if not exactly what DC said)
ESB - "Named after my mother's side of the family"
Where did the Ernst Stavro bit come from, Blofield yes mothers maiden name, cool, but the first names, he just made them up, sorry but it's lame scripting.
For me what was a brilliant & tense moment, I mean you'll never look at a dentist's chair the same, was spoilt because the producers thought let's keep this villans identity secret so the puplic will go OOOH, so spoil a great moment for the worst kept secret in Hollywood.
So please cut ME some slack Guy's & Girl's, I was just really disappointed, which makes me sad.
Good point. It seems clear to me that Bond cannot and should not fall for someone again in the same way as he did for Vesper. His heart is broken. His defences are up. He can still connect and care, but not sure he's going to fall in love.
I would have liked to see a few scenes of Bond and Swann having more fun- a clearer indication of what it is that Bond sees in her and likes. She has to be a good time girl IMO - someone to lift his spirits and distract him from reality. That's why the interrogation on the train is a bit of wasted opportunity - it's okay but I think Bond would find her questioning annoying not attractive. Hell, the film was long enough to allow a lot more development of the characters, the romance etc., a la OHMSS.
Any way, whatever the reason, the Bond-Swann thing feels a bit perfunctory and unconvincing or unexplained.
He never actually says he loves Swann. She says she loves him. It's an intense set of circumstances that finds two people together on a journey to apparent death. She's seemingly isolated and then this hero figure appears from nowhere to sweep her off her feet. What do people expect, a couple of cheeky Nando's and a few theatre trips before they jump in bed and then several months of dating before they eventually fall in love? Come on, it works perfectly in the circumstances, hence her saying she'll walk away when they return to London. The whole of Austria/Tangiers/Morocco are concerned with extenuating circumstances and their relationship is intensified because of it.
Disagree, she works perfectly because she understands his life pretty acutely. She's a woman who has hit the bottom, she wants to escape and she knows he does too. She gives him that choice. She's not just a distraction, she's a viable partner.
She walked away from him towards the end and he barely hesitated before carrying on with his mission, and only walked away with her after he rescued her and defeated ESB.
Secondly she told him she loved him, but I never heard him say the same back (he may have done and I could've missed it). I don't think it's clear that they are especially in love. I think Bond feels a great deal of sympathy for her and is very attracted to her, but he doesn't feel about her as he did Vesper. He left the service, but that could have been for many reasons.
Precisely. As I said above. I'm not sure everybody has actually watched this film properly. Maybe it takes a few viewings.
Sorry @RC7 I wrote down my thoughts before reading your post, which basically said it all. :\">
Only Swann told him he loves him, during the torture, I think driven to hopefully get Bond back. Bond did not return those words. At the end of the movie he just wants to give it a chance I think. MI6 and MI5 are a mess at that stage. So everything is unclear. Bond just completed his mission given by the previous M.
And in the old movies after a completed mission Bond always ends up with the Bondgirl somewhere on (authorized or not) leave. So I don't overthink walking away with Swann too much.
And didn't he found his solace after QoS? Also in SPECTRE we see him put an interrogation tape with Vesper away. So we might think he definitely closed that part of his life.
I cant harbour a grudge with a bloke who speaks as much sense as you do in the paragraph I've put in bold. Agree 100%
Yes I was disappointed with parts of SP as I expected it to be better - especially the writing - but it's still a very good Bond film. And even an average Bond film is better than most of the pretenders out there.
I think we are probably kindred spirits old chap as I too strive for the perfection that keeps eluding EON despite it seemingly not being rocket science. They have so many of the right pieces in place but just keep coming up short.
All that said Kingsman was a pile of bollocks and way more disappointing than SP so you haven't got a clue what you're talking about :)
Slack given ..fresh start. Wish you had enjoyed but thanks for sharing.
OK I liked Kingsman better, get over it :P, it was different & irrevarent, whilst also paying a certain homage to our favourite agent & made for a fraction of the SP budget IMO was better paced & written, but your point about average Bonds being better than most is also true, I mean compared to Man from UNCLE it's way better, maybe we could put our heads together a write EON that perfect script.
(Iv'e tweeted Gatiss to clear his diary )
@patb Gatiss? is that the guy who is writing the new SH series? If so, that would be good. He's SH stories are pretty solid. But then again, aren't they using ACDoyles stories as a starting block? I believe he was impressed with SP? could be wrong. what about Matthew Weiner? I thought EON has already commissioned him to write bond 25?
Not going to happen, unfortunately.