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It's people saying they want things included because it's the 'next step' that bothers me.
You begun this by saying you assumed the character of Q was gay, for no reason other than that the actor is gay. I would venture that you didn't assume so much as you hoped he was gay.
Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the Service would know that gay spies were commonplace in the middle of the 20th century. Indeed, it was somewhat of a standing joke, to the extent that a gay Bond would almost have been a cliche - perhaps that is partially why Bond is so alpha-heterosexual
Well, you'd be wrong. But then you have been about a lot of things, so perhaps we should leave it there. I'm not here to oppose your shaky viewpoints, just to offer my own.
For the record, the fact that what I said has courted such opposition says more than I ever could. Adieu.
I agree to leave it there and let the jury ponder on that.
Yes, it seems some people don't want to see Bond actually being untouchably cool. I bloody love it. This is a different take from Craig, but not one that is a leap. It makes sense off the back of three films in which he's been psychologically battered and bruised. You can see in the opening 'M' scene, he seems totally at one with himself, care-free and focussed. Like a weight has been lifted. He's in control. It's a joy to watch.
Slightly reminiscent of the old Sean Connery & Bernard Lee moments.
Precisely.
Jesus. Youve gone too far now surely mate!!
I simply suggested such days probably never existed.
As for films, Bond did arbitrarily cast Charles Gray as an obviously gay Henderson in YOLT circa 1967. Flemings Dikko Henderson was anything but.
Maybe EON was trying to reflect the presence of loyal gay men in the service, as opposed to the traitorous activities of the Cambridge gang of Burgess Blunt, homintern activities etc exposed in the Philby affair.
Or maybe Cubby and Saltz just had a hankering to cast the talents of Gray, who of course was invited back for a much bigger role, 4 years later.
It will be next week before I see again, but I think I can safely say that SP is going to be high on my list of favourite Bond movies.
see ;) ( I am joking ) but I never thought Henderson was gay. His line about getting things from the doorman at the Russian embassy, meant information.
Obviously I could be wrong,but I never got that impression.
You make no sense in the online world, so it's to be assumed you don't in the real world either.
into it. ;)
Naomi Harris is black in real life and on film. True fact.
I don't want to go anywhere. Just saying some people bring a little of themselves to roles, whether that's aesthetic or emotive.
I think it can often be wrong to attach an actor's sexuality to a role they're playing but the "...amongst certain other things..." from Henderson sounds like scripted innuendo to me. Always raises a smile anyway.
I had thought Backfire was quite tuneless when first debuted on Classic FM but it's a favourite on the soundtrack now. A half decent action theme from Newman for once!
@rc7 yes a scene of Whishaw rolling over to find a man in his bed, could be interpreted as simply a nod. Benign. Just playing with the character a bit.
In fact the scenario would be almost identical to what Eon did with Gray in YOLT. Eon created a gay Henderson.
And the character was 100% gay IMO. Not only Gray's depiction of the character screams gay, but the doorman line ("among other things") all but cements it.
At the very least, Eon is inviting us to interpret this character as gay, without hitting one over the head with it.
The motivation I believe, had everything to do with Gray being able to convincingly pull this character off. The fact that Gray is gay ( which I actually didn't know till now - not being up on my Charles Gray lifestory details, beyond the 2 Bond films that he did)
I'm sure Gray being gay did spark the idea. A decision was made to dispense with Fleming's Aussie Dikko Henderson, probably because he was such an OTT character, that might have distractred from Connery's Bond alpha dominance.
Having Gray play to type seems like an obvous consideration too.
Could have even been Gray's idea. Gray brought a gay touch to Blofeld too, 4 years later. I say touch, as Blofelds sexuality in DAF was somewhat ambiguous, as Ernst also did take notice of Tiffany's cheeks.
So if Whishaw were to roll over in bed to a man, a la Dench-M in GE, I do think it could be interpreted as simply a nod. The fact that Whishaw is gay, is what would probably spark the idea, BUT this is hypothetcial. Eon has not actually gone down this road, so there is actually nothing to discuss.
We don't know anything about new Q's personal life and that's probably a good thing.
The main focus should always be on the stridently hetero Bond and his relentless pursuit of Bond Girl-kind.
Mind you pc types would try to use such a hypothetical Q scenario to advance their broader social/political agenda. And I do make the distinction between PC and liberal.
PC have a social/political agenda. Liberals are just well, liberal, in their outlook.
So @scaramanga 's concerns are valid concerning possible motivations for such a scenario, but the scenario, ipso facto, does not have to be agenda motivated.
It could be quite benign, BUT again it hasn't happened, so there really is nothing to discuss.
As for gays in the secret service,as @Troy pointed out it was almost a cliche.
Fleming's portrayal of Bond as alpha-hetero was almost playing against type.
Fleming's Bond is very much fantasy, in that he is a manifestation of Fleming's idealized alpha version of himself, which is whyBond is so much fun. Audiences relate to this uber-hetero alpha-male fantasy, even if one is not remotely like Bond in real life.
He's just a very relatable character. We can live vicariously.
Fleming though does a good job of making the character seem real. He makes attempts to ground the character too.
Contrast with Le Carre ( who like Fleming, also has serious real-life secret service credentials). Le Carre's spy world has no problem accomodating Blunt and Burgess types characters.
I prefer Fleming obviously, but I've read several Le Carre's too. You don't find many James Bond like characters in his books.
As for a female 00. Faulks actually created one in his his Devil May Care book. A featured character in the book, even if the reveal came late.
Even in the films Jinx and Wai Lin were of 00 type, at least in terms of abilities.
Agent XXX was bs though. She was about as dangerous as Dolly, one movie later.
Absolutely. Thankfully, I believe that pretty much 99.9% of the people on this board aren't pushing a political agenda (from either side). I think this is where @Scaramanga2 got confused, as he was accusatory in his assumptions. I never accused him of anything. As you say, it's all hypothetical anyway and I wish I hadn't made the comment as I didn't realise it would rile people in quite the way it did.
Charles Gray was terrific and his Blofeld was probably a camper character than others he's played where he is usually a cad or a toff.
Even when he delivers the line "Such nice cheeks too, if only they were brains" it's done with a sense of detachment from sexual luring.
For what it's worth I just think some of Q's lines and behaviour are funnier and more resonant if you regard him as Gay. We're also free to make that interpretation as there is nothing to the contrary. I smile at the "I really really hate you right now" line as to anyone eavesdropping they'd think it was a bickering Gay couple rather than a 00 agent and his Quartermaster.
Yes, I have read Sir Hillary's wife's treatment, and you're right -- viewed in this context, the relationship between Bond and Swann makes more sense. The trouble is, we only have the context of what we see in the movie right now and if the producers are planning to contextualise this along the lines of Sir Hilary's wife's outline in the next movie, then they are leaving us with a rather limp and languid relationship in the inevitable three year gap that ensues between SP and Bond 25.
Maybe @SirHilaryBray should tweet his wife's phone number to MGW and BB.
Sean basically plays foil to Gray's performance. I first saw the movie when I was 12, so Henderson being gay didn't even register then.
I can see why Eon brought him back to play Ernst. He's a really smooth actor.
He is my favourite Blofeld. He actually kind of resembles Fleming's Blofled circa YOLT - a big man with square jaw - but with more personality and not as crazed. Gray brought a more sophisticated civilized level of derangement.
I'd like to see some other Gray films. Does he always play camp. Even Henderson was somewhat camp.
The gayest character, at least flamboyant wise, in DAF was Glover as Wint,but he wasn't playing to type. Good acting job. A couple of years later he played a solid no-nonsense, very straight deputy to Joe Don Bakers Buford Pusser in Walking Tall.
Two more sleeps till SP in IMAX. I know in advance I will very much like this film. I've known since reading the Dec draft, and member reviews only reinforce, especially from those who also read the Dec draft.
I do think the Bond Swann love angle is there because the writers have all along been toying with brazen OHMSS parallels.
It seems that ultimately they toned this element down. Most notably Bond's "We have all the time in the world" line to Swann at end of movie being dropped.
The Bond-Swann romance thus may not be quite convincing, as the filmmakers never quite committed to what they were doing with it, in both the present and going forward.
Still I think there is potential for an OHMSS/YOLT continuation scenario in Bond25 if Eon choose to go that route.
I'll have a better personal sense of that, when I actually see the story brought to life.