It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
Really? Interesting. I can understand that FYEO is somewhat underrated by fans, since people (here, at least) seem to adopt the stance that it's blatantly overrated, but from what I've seen, the general audience is fairly favorable towards both it and DN (unless you mean the people who think it's too dated to be worth watching). OHMSS seems fairly well-received by critics too, but maybe you've seen things that I haven't.
Most underrated by the general audience for me is Octopussy, while most underrated by media/critics is A View To a Kill, with Octopussy following closely. Neither are necessarily the best Bond films, but I really feel that the ratings they receive are way too harsh (especially AVTAK at 35% on Rotten Tomatoes, because I don't think most people would rank it substantially beneath Die Another Day). I also feel like the general audience only remembers the Tarzan yell and the defusing in a clown suit scenes when it comes to Octopussy. Maybe they're the most memorable scenes because they're so ridiculous, but you can't bring down an entire movie to 42% or so for just one or two scenes.
Most underrated by fans I'm not too sure of, but for this board in particular, I'd say TWINE.
FYEO gets far too many minus points for the Blofeld gag and Bibi, other than that it can really hold it's own against much more celebrated Bond flicks.
DN is the most subtle Bond film and it's strengths are not as obvious as it's two successors. But it is just utterly overlooked by the masses, partly for being too old and partly because everyone is brainwashed into thinking GF is worth watching over any Bond film...
OHMSS regularly gets panned by critics because very few can look past Lazenby. I haven't seen more than one measly favorable review for that film to be honest.
I can go along with OP being underrated by almost all kinds of audiences, but I honestly don't think AVTAK is underrated. It's rated pretty much near the bottom of the pile ;)
Doesn't mean I'm not fond of it, though.
But time (and the Craig era) hasn't been that kind to it. The acting and writing in several scenes is pretty poor.
Yeah, and die hard Bond fans probably love their #19 more than most folks love their #3.
This is very representative of my thoughts on TWINE too - I was 13 when I saw it in '99 and it was my second (or third, I got Live and Let Die too, both for Christmas in 2000) DVD too, my first being OHMSS.
I understand you're one of the less appreciative people of TWINE, and I think it's bottom-tier as well, but I do think it deserves just a little more credit, especially in comparison to DAD.
I also think this board just underrates TWINE compared to the general public, which is usually more favorable towards it (again, especially in comparison to DAD) while still acknowledging it as one of the weaker entries into Bond Canon.
TWINE on the other hand is not criticized nearly as much (some members do in fact rate it highly, which I still find difficult to understand).
So that's what I mean about DAD being underrated in comparison. I think more people here may actually appreciate it here than let on since it's an easy one to bash, while the opposite is likely true of TWINE (although some members rate it quite high).
With the general public: DAD was much more successful upon release at the global box office, which again suggests it was popular at the time. Post-reboot, it became easier to knock.
1. True, the problem began with Brosnan's films being repetitive yet getting increasingly over-the-top and stale. DAD just committed the greatest sin by continuing that line of repetition when it clearly wouldn't work. And it was DAD that led to Bond's reboot, because it was continuing Bond down a line that just wasn't sustainable (at the time).
2. That's because most people would agree that TWINE has a better cast (I'm mostly talking about Sophie Marceau), a better theme song, better effects, etc. whereas DAD has little to boast in comparison to TWINE other than the fact that it's more fun, and even then, TWINE is pretty heavily criticized for Denise Richards' casting alone.
3. Maybe that's true, but when it comes down to analyzing the individual elements, more people seem to appreciate TWINE than DAD, though on this board that's strangely not the case.
4. DAD had the benefit of the 40th anniversary and greater publicity/advertising, though, and there wasn't anything like The Phantom Menace in its year (though otherwise, I'd agree that it faced somewhat stronger competition).
But then again, DAD does have higher ratings on most reviewing sites other than IMDB, it seems, so the case for DAD > TWINE is certainly valid. I just feel like I see a lot more TWINE bashing than DAD bashing here, and this could be because of my limited exposure to the forum (I've only been here a few months).
I know some members here do actually think quite highly of it. It normally ends up in the lower part of the pack here in votes, but almost never at the bottom (I think I may be one of the few who consistently ranks it there).
Yeah, and in fairness, unlike in DAD, while TWINE does suffer from some strange/poor acting (I think on average, it's Brosnan's worst acting out of his four films), there are a few scenes with great acting (Brosnan included), which I don't think anyone can really bring up for DAD. Otherwise, I suppose it's just another controversial topic.
TWINE is simply a maligned, well intended effort at a more layered Bond film that doesn't really deliver, but still gets some marks for trying. With another team other than P&W it may have been quite good...
DAD is a comic book Bond that never even looks like it was trying. It's a great big middle finger at what TWINE was attempting to build...
DAD is also unfairly underrated on these boards.Its completely batshit crazy with all the traditions and cliches turned up to the max but i enjoy it for what it is and actually prefer it to Goldeneye ( Very overrated ).
I agree. I actually rank the Brosnan films as follows;
1. TND
2. TWINE
3. DAD
4. GE
That's also pretty much how my top ranking of Bond films overall would go.
By critics:
Quantum of Solace
- This one doesn't even nearly deserve all the bashing its got.
Honourable mentions; Licence to Kill, OHMSS, Spectre
By the general public:
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
- Although it has had some what of a rennesaince lately.
Honourable mentions; Licence to Kill (yet again), QOS, FYEO
On these boards:
Dr No
- Sadly many members fail to appreciate this films class, elegance and subtle qualities. Common consensus is to respect its symbolism as the first film, without acknowledging its virtues as a classic in its own right.
Honourable mentions; FYEO, Thunderball, The Living Daylights.
Agreed. Although I love Lupe Lamora. I'm not bothered about the acting.......but she was simply perfect on the attractiveness scale.
See, for me it's the scores that ruin certain Bond films for me. It's one of the reasons that LTK and FYEO is my last two in my rankings. I despise Kamens and Contis scores.
Agreed. His score sounds cartoon-ish most of the time. "The Goldeneye Overture" is good though.
A few cues aside I think Serra's work is pretty damn good. I respect the uniqueness of it, and I think its industrial feel fits the cinematography and post-Cold War atmosphere really well. Way better than Kamen's bland score in my opinion.
Also, Goldeneye is far and away the best Brosnan film, probably because it was taken from a script written for Dalton (or so I've heard). It feels different from the three that follow, and I'd argue that all three that follow attempt to recapture that "Goldeneye feel" in different ways and unsuccessfully.
My retro respect for some of the earlier one-off scores is on account of the generic tripe we have been fed since then, particularly in the late 90's/early 00's by Arnold. That's why, even though he really delivered excellent work for CR/QoS, I can never really trust him not to screw up again. Once bitten and all that jazz.
I agree that GE feels different from the other Brosnan outings. To me, it has a unique feel of a retro modern Bond film. Even today, there's something very distinct about it, although it has dated poorly in some areas. The others are just generic action films to me in comparison.
I agree.
Although Serra's score is a monumental disappointment after his sublime score for Leon (which was what got him the Bond job) it's a lot better than Kamen just playing the Bond theme over and over again (albeit with a slight change of timing which he clearly thinks is such genius we get to hear it about 50 times during the course of the tanker chase alone) with a few reheated bits of Lethal Weapon and Die Hard mixed in for good measure.
The PTS of GE is awful (after Bond has been absent for 6 years I don't want a tuneless drum sending me to sleep I want a bombastic rendition of the Bond theme screaming at me that Bond is finally back!), the 70s porn music during the jokey car chase is embarrassing and the less said about the musical equivalent of Rory Kinnear over the end credits the better.
But the rest is pretty reasonable. As others have said the industrial sound works well with the Russia scenes and he really nails the scene with Natalya on the beach.
I think I'd certainly prefer Serra to have another crack over Newman. Although both of Newman's scores are better than Kamen's.