Most Under-rated Bond Movies

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  • Posts: 4,325
    Yeah I like Kamen's score. My only complaint about Kamen is that all his scores have a similar feel to them - across LTK, Die Hard and the Lethal Weapons.
  • Kamen's score is fine, but he is quite literally the most generic action composer they could have chosen to replace Barry. I mean, really. It is probably another reason why LTK ends up lacking a Bond feel and why it ends up being so Americanised.

    On the subject of underrated Bonds, I will always say that OP is the most underappreciated. It thoroughly amazes me how some people can just gloss over it without realising its greatness. The action really is thrilling - from the missile to the palace fights to the train chase to the plane finale - it's first class! Gobinda is a bit of a run-of-the-mill henchman but Mishka and Grishka make up for it. Khan is also a wonderfully suave villain. Octopussy and Magda were also good Bond girls! Yes, perhaps there's one joke too many, but ultimately that's OP's style - blending humour with suspense - and lots of suspense during that bomb sequence! An All-Time-High for Bond.

    Second in terms of underrated Bonds is YOLT, which I was thoroughly shocked to find was hated by quite a lot of people on this forum.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Kamen's score is fine, but he is quite literally the most generic action composer they could have chosen to replace Barry. I mean, really. It is probably another reason why LTK ends up lacking a Bond feel and why it ends up being so Americanised.

    On the subject of underrated Bonds, I will always say that OP is the most underappreciated. It thoroughly amazes me how some people can just gloss over it without realising its greatness. The action really is thrilling - from the missile to the palace fights to the train chase to the plane finale - it's first class! Gobinda is a bit of a run-of-the-mill henchman but Mishka and Grishka make up for it. Khan is also a wonderfully suave villain. Octopussy and Magda were also good Bond girls! Yes, perhaps there's one joke too many, but ultimately that's OP's style - blending humour with suspense - and lots of suspense during that bomb sequence! An All-Time-High for Bond.

    Second in terms of underrated Bonds is YOLT, which I was thoroughly shocked to find was hated by quite a lot of people on this forum.

    Yeah on my last Bondathon I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Octopussy. I don't hate YOLT, but think it is a bit average - as has been said Connery looks bored, Blofeld could be better developed.
  • Hmm everyone seems to say that Connery was bored in YOLT, and I suppose it is true, but I think it is exaggerated way out of proportion, and if you want a truly bad performance from Connery then you ought to look at DAF really.

    You are technically right about Blofeld, but the same could be said for Dr. No, for example. Both villains work being revealed in the closing minutes of the film given how much suspense there is leading up to their reveal in their individual movies. I also think both villains were good considering how much menace they had... YOLT Blofeld is far better than drag Blofeld or SP Blofeld, though.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 4,325
    Hmm everyone seems to say that Connery was bored in YOLT, and I suppose it is true, but I think it is exaggerated way out of proportion, and if you want a truly bad performance from Connery then you ought to look at DAF really.

    You are technically right about Blofeld, but the same could be said for Dr. No, for example. Both villains work being revealed in the closing minutes of the film given how much suspense there is leading up to their reveal in their individual movies. I also think both villains were good considering how much menace they had... YOLT Blofeld is far better than drag Blofeld or SP Blofeld, though.

    Yeah I don't think Connery is terrible in YOLT. I actually think he gives a better performance in DAF, even though YOLT is the better film. He seems more lively, interested and assured. He just could have been in better shape.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Yeah I don't think Connery is terrible in YOLT. I actually think he gives a better performance in DAF, even though YOLT is the better film. He seems more lively, interested and assured. He just could have been in better shape.
    I agree. He chose to come back for DAF and that shows. There was a break too. He was done by the time of YOLT and fed up after doing one almost every year until 1967. That showed too, towards the end of that film.
  • Posts: 9,853
    they all have something good about them but for me and my list

    Casino royale 54: Is it bad yes but it's still fun to watch a what if and I still say had Nelson actually read the dam book he would of been an ok 007

    From Russia with Love: Sorry this is the true definitive Connery Film better then more then likely any other connery film (I will say more once I have finished Diamonds are forever in my 007 Journey)

    For Your Eyes Only: Still don't get why many hate this film its a good Cold War esque spy thriller (sure Dalton would of been better as 007 but then Moore would of ended his tenure on Moonraker... ok ending on A view to a Kill isn't much better granted) Moore is just at home here as is in the goofier bond films which leads me to believe it wasn't Moore that opted for sillier bond films but producers and directors and that The man with the golden gun (along with Moonraker) could of been a LOT better.

    The World Is not enough: to me this is the best brosnan era Bond film and the closest we get until Casino royale to bond going back to his routes. At the core is a murder mystery which essentially was what Dr. No Was and I don't care Denise Richards isn't believable she was the hottest bond girl of the Brosnan era.

    Qunatum of Solace: Again a strong film that I don't get the hate for.

  • DN, YOLT, TMWTGG, MR, OP, TND, DAD (yes), QOS and SP are all underrated in my opinion. With regard to MR, OP, TND and, to me, DAD are all really entertaining. QOS was rushed of course, but I think it's a very good film regardless and a gritty sequel to CR. DN is slightly underrated imo, it's my favourite Connery despite the formula not established fully yet. SP is unfairly hated upon I think and YOLT and TMWTGG just need more love.
  • Posts: 631
    DN is slightly underrated imo, it's my favourite Connery despite the formula not established fully yet.

    That’s an interesting point of view. It is not often that you read that DN is someone’s favourite Connery.

  • DN is slightly underrated imo, it's my favourite Connery despite the formula not established fully yet.

    That’s an interesting point of view. It is not often that you read that DN is someone’s favourite Connery.

    Yes, I suppose I think of the GF plot as generic and although FRWL is very good, it doesn't feel quite as original as DN, maybe it suffers from sequel-itis aa bit I don't know, I really like FRWL though.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,611
    DN, GF (on this forum), YOLT, LALD, FYEO, TLD

    With regards to cinematography, plot and action, also DAF, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, OP, AVTAK, GE, TND
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited June 2021 Posts: 3,262
    Most underrated by the fanbase: MR

    Most underrated by the general public: TLD
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,036
    TLD, TND, QOS
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 1,469
    DN is slightly underrated imo, it's my favourite Connery despite the formula not established fully yet.

    That’s an interesting point of view. It is not often that you read that DN is someone’s favourite Connery.
    For a long time, DN was my favorite Connery film too, because of the story and dialogue, the scenic location, being the first major Bond film, and the exotic mystery of Dr. No, his lair and island. But for me FRWL took over the title a year or two ago, and thinking about that change, it may've resulted partly from time spent conversing with the knowledgeable aficionados here in the MI6 Community, so, "cheero".
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 207
    Thrasos wrote: »
    DN is slightly underrated imo, it's my favourite Connery despite the formula not established fully yet.

    That’s an interesting point of view. It is not often that you read that DN is someone’s favourite Connery.
    For a long time, DN was my favorite Connery film too, because of the story and dialogue, the scenic location, being the first major Bond film, and the exotic mystery of Dr. No, his lair and island. But for me FRWL took over the title a year or two ago.
    Same for me. This year I finally moved From Russia with Love to my favorite Connery movie and dropped Dr. No to #2 Connery and #7 overall. There is just something so great about the atmosphere, feeling it gives and Connery's performance and I think it will be a long time before it leaves my top 10, if it ever does.
  • TLD, TND, QOS

    Agreed there, I actually prefer both TND and QOS to their Martin Campbell counterparts. TLD is just a classic Bond film.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,198
    By the general public, I'd say both TLD and LTK are way too underappreciated. I'd add OP to that list, since usually it's remembered for 'Bond dressed as a clown' and not much else.

    20 years ago OHMSS would have a place here too, but recently it gets the praise it deserves. Mostly.

    By Bond fans, I am going with TWINE. For me Brosnan's best, regretfully only referred to as 'the one with pain face'.

    And finally, I'd say QOS is underrated by everyone.

    So that's OP, TLD, LTK, TWINE and QOS for me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    At this moment, I'd say that SP is the most under-valued, under-rated, under-appreciated of the Bonds. I don't think it deserves being called the best Bond ever, but neither do I think it deserves being called the worst of the bunch, and yet it seems that's where some folks have the film in their rankings. Compared to some of the more unfortunate entries in the '70s and '80s, SP has so much more of the good stuff to offer, at least in my opinion. I find the whole "brothergate" complaint a bit exaggerated. Other Bond films bring messier plots and far more insulting twists, in my opinion. If SP is a comedown from SF, I can understand the anger. I recall being disappointed in TND and QOS for that exact reason, but I still valued the good things in them.

    I get that people have issues with this film, but to call it atrocious, worse than NSNA or DAF, an irredeemable mess.... let's just say that's several stretches too far for me.

    Hey, all of this is just personal taste, folks. No hard feelings. ;-)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2021 Posts: 4,247
    Yeah, I think John Barry is the reason some older Bond films aren't heavily criticized. I know SP already comes with its narrative problems. But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today. I can't think of any other franchise or film where music in a way, affects its plot like it does in a Bond film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, I think John Barry is the reason some older Bond films aren't heavily criticized. I know SP already comes with its narrative problems. But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today. I can't think of any other franchise or film where music in a way, affects its plot like it does in a Bond film.

    I can appreciate that. Because it counts for me too. DAF and TMWTGG, for example, are bearable, amongst other things, because Barry brings the magic. To be frank, I like the SP score at times, but I agree that only Barry had the Midas touch.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, I think John Barry is the reason some older Bond films aren't heavily criticized. I know SP already comes with its narrative problems. But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today. I can't think of any other franchise or film where music in a way, affects its plot like it does in a Bond film.

    I can appreciate that. Because it counts for me too. DAF and TMWTGG, for example, are bearable, amongst other things, because Barry brings the magic. To be frank, I like the SP score at times, but I agree that only Barry had the Midas touch.

    Exactly!!! Barry turns any film into GOLD!!!
  • Posts: 1,469
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    At this moment, I'd say that SP is the most under-valued, under-rated, under-appreciated of the Bonds. I don't think it deserves being called the best Bond ever, but neither do I think it deserves being called the worst of the bunch, and yet it seems that's where some folks have the film in their rankings....I get that people have issues with this film, but to call it atrocious, worse than NSNA or DAF, an irredeemable mess.... let's just say that's several stretches too far for me....
    I agree. SP's my #13, far above DAF and NSNA. I was just skimming through the SP soundtrack, which reminded me that part of SP's appeal for me is its musical score, which I think fits well with the images and themes of the film. However, I also agree with GadgetMan:
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    ....But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today....
    The music scores of so many Bond films use a motif or two from the title song, and I can't remember hearing any of those in the SP score. I think Writing's on the Wall is a bland and forgettable title song that doesn't sound Bondian at all, though that's been true of other title songs too. It should also be remembered that a lot of the public went to see SP, which took in $881 million, not as much as SF's $1.1 billion, but more than QoS's $590 million.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Yeah @Thrasos The music of Bond really does sparks interest, not just from Bond fans, but from casual fans as well. I remember when Dan Romer was picked as composer for NTTD. Attention quickly shifted to him and discussions about him and the film's potential music continued for a very long time. It just gets to show that no matter the stellar script, cast and crew a Bond film has assembled, fans are always deeply concerned about the music.
    And I must confess, when Zimmer and Marr were announced as Composers, my excitement for NTTD reached Mount Everest.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, I think John Barry is the reason some older Bond films aren't heavily criticized. I know SP already comes with its narrative problems. But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today. I can't think of any other franchise or film where music in a way, affects its plot like it does in a Bond film.

    I can appreciate that. Because it counts for me too. DAF and TMWTGG, for example, are bearable, amongst other things, because Barry brings the magic. To be frank, I like the SP score at times, but I agree that only Barry had the Midas touch.

    Exactly!!! Barry turns any film into GOLD!!!

    My prime examples come from DAF.

    1) Immediately after the cringe-worthy gas station scene, with Jill St. John's ludicrous bit of overacting and Bond's "superspy" move of hiding inside a man's van while the man gets distracted, Barry kicks in a lovely little mystery version of his theme song while the camera flies up and zooms out. The scene is one I'm always looking forward to; content, zero; music: A+.

    2) When Bond shoots the wrong Blofeld and the real Ernst takes the tape to his safe while giving his little speech, Barry gives us another, this time rather emotional take on the theme song, and in doing so he almost elevates the dull bad guy scene to something I'm almost willing to take, ahum, seriously. Camp: zero; music: A+. Another scene to always look forward to.

    Films like DAF and MR are replete with scenes that, without any music, could induce grave disappointment, but with the help of Barry make for a delightful experience. Being a Bond fan has thought me the power of awesome film scores...

    ... which also explains why certain moments in films like LALD and NSNA are extra bad for me. Barry could've saved them, I'm inclined to believe, but Martin and Legrand settled for mediocrity at times. (Martin, at least, compensates in other scenes.)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2021 Posts: 4,247
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, I think John Barry is the reason some older Bond films aren't heavily criticized. I know SP already comes with its narrative problems. But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today. I can't think of any other franchise or film where music in a way, affects its plot like it does in a Bond film.

    I can appreciate that. Because it counts for me too. DAF and TMWTGG, for example, are bearable, amongst other things, because Barry brings the magic. To be frank, I like the SP score at times, but I agree that only Barry had the Midas touch.

    Exactly!!! Barry turns any film into GOLD!!!

    My prime examples come from DAF.

    1) Immediately after the cringe-worthy gas station scene, with Jill St. John's ludicrous bit of overacting and Bond's "superspy" move of hiding inside a man's van while the man gets distracted, Barry kicks in a lovely little mystery version of his theme song while the camera flies up and zooms out. The scene is one I'm always looking forward to; content, zero; music: A+.

    2) When Bond shoots the wrong Blofeld and the real Ernst takes the tape to his safe while giving his little speech, Barry gives us another, this time rather emotional take on the theme song, and in doing so he almost elevates the dull bad guy scene to something I'm almost willing to take, ahum, seriously. Camp: zero; music: A+. Another scene to always look forward to.

    Films like DAF and MR are replete with scenes that, without any music, could induce grave disappointment, but with the help of Barry make for a delightful experience. Being a Bond fan has thought me the power of awesome film scores...

    ... which also explains why certain moments in films like LALD and NSNA are extra bad for me. Barry could've saved them, I'm inclined to believe, but Martin and Legrand settled for mediocrity at times. (Martin, at least, compensates in other scenes.)

    Bull's eye! @DarthDimi but I really like Martin's LALD score. Apart from using the title song, he creates an alternate theme that keeps recurring. The theme starts in Bond to New York.
  • Posts: 1,469
    I agree with you both on these things, including GadgetMan your saying that "Barry turns any film into GOLD!!!" He created a perfect musical translation of the Bond world.
    The phrase that springs to mind is how the whole is then greater than the sum of the parts. What a find he was for the series. About LALD, I was skimming through the soundtrack last night and did appreciate what the great George Martin did, incorporating rock elements and adding his musical "sparkle" or genius. About Hans Zimmer, I think we'll be in great hands. I really liked his deft touch with Gladiator. And I just noticed he and Harold Faltermeyer are doing the music for another action pic, Top Gun: Maverick.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,074
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    ... which also explains why certain moments in films like LALD and NSNA are extra bad for me. Barry could've saved them, I'm inclined to believe, but Martin and Legrand settled for mediocrity at times. (Martin, at least, compensates in other scenes.)
    You have your points, but George Martin's score is the best of them all this side of John Barry's better ones. Meaning that I prefer Martin's over the lesser Barry scores, however iconic some of their cues may be. Case in point (and admittedly, maybe nothing else): TMWTGG, which has a few, but nevertheless very few intriguing tunes to offer, but that's it, while Martin's LALD score manages to keep tension high and serves the visual action appropriately during the entire movie. For the first Bond movie without Barry, LALD hit the jackpot with George Martin. And I wish they had commissioned him again rather than resort to Bill Conti or, for that matter, even Marvin Hamlish, who both provided more or less generic scores for their time period, meaning their creations are "dated". Dated indeed, at least much more than George Martin's efforts.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Thrasos wrote: »
    I agree with you both on these things, including GadgetMan your saying that "Barry turns any film into GOLD!!!" He created a perfect musical translation of the Bond world.
    The phrase that springs to mind is how the whole is then greater than the sum of the parts. What a find he was for the series. About LALD, I was skimming through the soundtrack last night and did appreciate what the great George Martin did, incorporating rock elements and adding his musical "sparkle" or genius. About Hans Zimmer, I think we'll be in great hands. I really liked his deft touch with Gladiator. And I just noticed he and Harold Faltermeyer are doing the music for another action pic, Top Gun: Maverick.

    My sentiments exactly! :)>-
  • Posts: 230
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, I think John Barry is the reason some older Bond films aren't heavily criticized. I know SP already comes with its narrative problems. But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today. I can't think of any other franchise or film where music in a way, affects its plot like it does in a Bond film.

    Dubbing Radiohead's song for the film over the title sequence DOES get me in a better mood to watch the film, for sure.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, I think John Barry is the reason some older Bond films aren't heavily criticized. I know SP already comes with its narrative problems. But if David Arnold had teamed up with a rock band to compose the title song/score, I think SP would have been better appreciated today. I can't think of any other franchise or film where music in a way, affects its plot like it does in a Bond film.

    Dubbing Radiohead's song for the film over the title sequence DOES get me in a better mood to watch the film, for sure.

    Sure. It suits Kleinman's very dark title sequence. But it's funny how Radiohead's brilliant song was deemed too dark.
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