Most Under-rated Bond Movies

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,118
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I’m gonna say it:
    Spectre is an underrated Bond film.

    …at least among hardcore Bond fans.

    I do think it has some serious problems, but to put it dead last as so many do… I don’t get it.
    It also helps if you press Stop right after Blofeld’s base explodes and just cut to Bond and Madeline riding off into the sunset 😂

    Had it dead last for a while, but a recent re-watch of another entry made it climb a spot higher.

    I'd admit there are moments that I quite like, especially in Mexico and Italy, but also the scene with Jepser Christensen and at the hotel.

    After that though, it plumits and does so deeply. You did advise to just skip the last part yourself.

    For me that's very telling. When the defence admits that it is indeed better to just fast-forward to the final scene at a certain point, I don't think that's a good sign.

    Well, Mexico, Italy, Altausee, L'Americain...that's a lot time spent on apparently good scenes!

    But I'm happy to be the guy who defends the final act. I mostly love it. At least three great lines: "Now we know what C stands for" and "I've really put you through it, haven't I?" "That's the general idea of a safehouse."

    I love the badass way Bond gets out of his bindings and takes out those two thugs.

    Seeing the scar come back was a delight.

    M getting in a bit on the action was done very well: he's clearly an older guy, and is not exactly kicking ass. He struggles to get away, he can't even beat up C and gets a bit lucky. Also, the whole Scooby gang aspect is not annoying to me because these people are out of a job and are aware of the present danger. If not them, who?

    God help me, I like Bond shooting down the helicopter, and I like the score as it's happening. It's deeply unlikely to happen, but I don't find it all that more implausible than the fantastic maneuvers made by Bond in the climax to LTK. II love it when Bond is on a roll.

    The Bond series (I think famously?) tends to have weaker third acts, and I'm happy to rank this one in the middle, at least. FRWL overstays its welcome after the fight. GF comes to a bit of a halt in Kentucky. DAF, well we all know. TMWTGG does a bunch of pointless stuff after Scaramanga is dead. TSWLM and TND could have their final action scenes cut severely without losing anything. A lot of people don't care for the Afghanistan stuff in TLD. TWINE and DAD, no need to discuss. CR; post-torture, is fairly weak sauce, with Bond emerging from some kind of coma to find he has a deep mutual love with Vesper, which has to be discussed out loud and at length. I like the SF Home Alone showdown, but it's not extremely popular.

    I think tying a bomb to Swann and making Bond choose is not super interesting, and certainly a cliche, but it is at least new to Bond films...

    Only bad bit for me is Swann deciding to break up with Bond at the most inappropriate possible time. WTF, Maddie?

    Fair enough and well-put. You can't win them all ;)

    And indeed I quite like the first part and that's why I have it slightly higher now than before.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    I should start a thread on the third acts of Bond. They're a decidedly mixed bag, even among us crazy fans...
  • I should start a thread on the third acts of Bond. They're a decidedly mixed bag, even among us crazy fans...

    For me it's not always clear where the third act begins, but that sounds like a great idea for a thread!
  • Posts: 207
    I should start a thread on the third acts of Bond. They're a decidedly mixed bag, even among us crazy fans...
    Great idea! I have a rough order in my head.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    In the real world AVTAK is the most underrated Bond film IMO.
    In here, obviously SP…
  • I’m gonna say it:
    Spectre is an underrated Bond film.

    …at least among hardcore Bond fans.

    I do think it has some serious problems, but to put it dead last as so many do… I don’t get it.
    It also helps if you press Stop right after Blofeld’s base explodes and just cut to Bond and Madeline riding off into the sunset 😂

    Agreed. I think it's similar to QoS in that it has a much worse reputation than it warrants since it was not up to the level of the film that preceded it. Unlike QoS, though, the retconning aspect of Spectre really tarnishes the film as it really impacts the Craig era as a whole.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    SP's car chase is underrated. Maybe just misunderstood. The London section and shooting down the copter is underrated too.
  • Posts: 1,917
    QBranch wrote: »
    SP's car chase is underrated. Maybe just misunderstood. The London section and shooting down the copter is underrated too.

    Sounds more like controversial opinions thread material than underrated movies. Unless you are counting them as being part of the film as a whole being underrated.

    I'm curious in what way you view the car chase as misunderstood. I have my own ideas as to why it doesn't work but I'm wondering about your claim.
  • Posts: 16,162
    BT3366 wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    SP's car chase is underrated. Maybe just misunderstood. The London section and shooting down the copter is underrated too.

    Sounds more like controversial opinions thread material than underrated movies. Unless you are counting them as being part of the film as a whole being underrated.

    I'm curious in what way you view the car chase as misunderstood. I have my own ideas as to why it doesn't work but I'm wondering about your claim.

    Indeed. This thread could probably be combined with the controversial opinions thread.
    Lately I find SP on the whole a little underrated. I quite enjoyed it the last time I watched it.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    BT3366 wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    SP's car chase is underrated. Maybe just misunderstood. The London section and shooting down the copter is underrated too.

    Sounds more like controversial opinions thread material than underrated movies. Unless you are counting them as being part of the film as a whole being underrated.

    I'm curious in what way you view the car chase as misunderstood. I have my own ideas as to why it doesn't work but I'm wondering about your claim.

    I won't speak for QBranch, but as a crazy lover of Spectre, I'd definitely say it's underrated and I can imagine what QBranch might mean in terms of the car chase being misunderstood. The scene is largely an exposition scene with a bit of light comedy, all in the context of a car chase--a car chase that happens early in the movie, and as such, is a bit lower stakes than some people seem to think it should be.

    I think the viewer is not meant to be any more nervous than Bond is in the scene, which is to say, not very. In fact, I'd say it's a pretty good rule of thumb that if Bond himself isn't much worried about his predicament, you're not supposed to be on the edge of your seat either. So I think the misunderstanding comes from viewer expectations, and I would say that viewer expectations are a key factor in disliking the movie as a whole.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I love that car chase, and very much else in the film as well.
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 1,596
    The car chase is lifeless save for the one shot we get in the trailer and a few seconds when they're on the edge of the channel, imo.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    QBranch wrote: »
    DAD is a blast! Way too much anger directed at this film rather than important issues going on in the world. Still deciding what's more entertaining - the film itself, or how people get really butthurt over it. :))

    I have similar feelings about MR.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I find DR NO, GOLDFINGER and THUNDERBALL to be underrated entries these days. I grew up with the general perception they were among the best. They still are, IMO.

    Definitely agree about DN and especially TB. TB was the first truly spectacular widescreen Bond film but it still had Terence Young's style from the first two. Plus it has Connery at his apex in the role surrounded by the best group of Bond girls to appear in a single 007 film. It's also relatively faithful to its source novel and deserves to be ranked alongside FRWL, OHMSS and CR'06 IMHO.
    With DAF it's less that it's underrated and more that it's misunderstood, or unfair expectations are forced onto it that have next to nothing to do with the quality of the film itself.

    Exactly. DAF isn't really trying to be a true sequel to OHMSS. If anything it should be seen as a sequel to YOLT to complete Connery's tenure in the official series.
    With MR it's a hilariously arbitrary line that die hard fans draw for an already deeply silly series.

    +1. I've always found it fascinating to see MR get pilloried for being OTT, comic book-ish, sci-fi and derivative by fans who praise TSWLM.(Disclaimer: I love both films).
    It's a dark comedy. Those who assess it and assign it quality-points based on criteria that they impose on it are willfully misunderstanding it. You don't have to like the film. God knows, it's far from perfect.

    I have always said - judge the film for how well it does what it is setting out to do. To me, DAF is very clearly the only film in the series whose first aim is to be a comedy. Even MR, which is largely lampooned as silly, is going for spectacle and bombast first and foremost. DAF is razor sharp, sardonic, subversive, and frequently hilarious.

    edit: We can lament that we didn't get a proper revenge follow-up. I lament that. I truly do. Same thing with QoS only tangentially following up CR (moreso than DAF, certainly, but still not as well as we'd hoped). But I don't necessarily "blame" DAF for that and then rag on it for not being something it was never trying to be.

    +1
    I’m gonna say it:
    Spectre is an underrated Bond film.

    …at least among hardcore Bond fans.

    Personally speaking I find it the most enjoyable of Craig's post-CR Bond films.
    The Bond series (I think famously?) tends to have weaker third acts, and I'm happy to rank this one in the middle, at least. FRWL overstays its welcome after the fight. GF comes to a bit of a halt in Kentucky. DAF, well we all know. TMWTGG does a bunch of pointless stuff after Scaramanga is dead. TSWLM and TND could have their final action scenes cut severely without losing anything. A lot of people don't care for the Afghanistan stuff in TLD. TWINE and DAD, no need to discuss. CR; post-torture, is fairly weak sauce, with Bond emerging from some kind of coma to find he has a deep mutual love with Vesper, which has to be discussed out loud and at length. I like the SF Home Alone showdown, but it's not extremely popular.

    I've read this criticism from many fans but except for TWINE and DAD I've generally enjoyed the other final 3rd acts you've referenced.


  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711

    +1. I've always found it fascinating to see MR get pilloried for being OTT, comic book-ish, sci-fi and derivative by fans who praise TSWLM.(Disclaimer: I love both films).

    Another +1. TSWLM is at least as silly as MR. And it takes itself more seriously.

    Even more ridiculous is when people think Jaws was somehow not a ridiculous joke of a character in TSWLM but somehow became that suddenly in MR.

  • Posts: 1,917
    BT3366 wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    SP's car chase is underrated. Maybe just misunderstood. The London section and shooting down the copter is underrated too.

    Sounds more like controversial opinions thread material than underrated movies. Unless you are counting them as being part of the film as a whole being underrated.

    I'm curious in what way you view the car chase as misunderstood. I have my own ideas as to why it doesn't work but I'm wondering about your claim.

    I won't speak for QBranch, but as a crazy lover of Spectre, I'd definitely say it's underrated and I can imagine what QBranch might mean in terms of the car chase being misunderstood. The scene is largely an exposition scene with a bit of light comedy, all in the context of a car chase--a car chase that happens early in the movie, and as such, is a bit lower stakes than some people seem to think it should be.

    I think the viewer is not meant to be any more nervous than Bond is in the scene, which is to say, not very. In fact, I'd say it's a pretty good rule of thumb that if Bond himself isn't much worried about his predicament, you're not supposed to be on the edge of your seat either. So I think the misunderstanding comes from viewer expectations, and I would say that viewer expectations are a key factor in disliking the movie as a whole.
    So if Bond isn't worried about the predicament, why should we even care? Why have the scene at all as it does little other than get Bond away from his pursuer.

    What that car chase does that's damaging is it largely undermines the tone Mendes tried to set from the mostly serious first part of the film and the creepy vibe of the SPECTRE board meeting that built up some suspense to throwing it all away with what feels like a gag left over from the Moore or Brosnan era.

    It could've worked with just a couple of light moments but it piles on and feels as if it's from an entirely different movie, and in the process makes Hinx, the henchman with the most potential in years, into another version of Jaws. While we're at it with the jokes, why not throw in the drinking guy from the Moore movies checking his bottle or glass as Hinx walks away unscathed.

    While this doesn't ruin SP for me, in fact I enjoy it in some ways more than SF, it doesn't help and I cannot call the film underrated due to that, Brofeld and one of the most underwhelming finales of the series. Nothing to misunderstand.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited July 2021 Posts: 1,711
    BT3366 wrote: »
    So if Bond isn't worried about the predicament, why should we even care? Why have the scene at all as it does little other than get Bond away from his pursuer.

    What that car chase does that's damaging is it largely undermines the tone Mendes tried to set from the mostly serious first part of the film and the creepy vibe of the SPECTRE board meeting that built up some suspense to throwing it all away with what feels like a gag left over from the Moore or Brosnan era.

    It could've worked with just a couple of light moments but it piles on and feels as if it's from an entirely different movie, and in the process makes Hinx, the henchman with the most potential in years, into another version of Jaws. While we're at it with the jokes, why not throw in the drinking guy from the Moore movies checking his bottle or glass as Hinx walks away unscathed.

    Well, if you go through the history of the Bond films, you'll find that James Bond is not often clearly perturbed by whatever danger he may be in. That just goes back to Sean and Roger. As to why you should care about a scene that lacks intense action or violence, I would again point to the expository nature of the scene, the couple of humorous moments, and the possible aesthetic appeal of looking at these two cars race around Rome. Theoretically, you're supposed to be curious about what Bond is curious about in his call to Moneypenny, and you're supposed to chuckle at a couple of jokes.

    I'm not sure how the scene exactly "piles on" light moments or how Jaws-like Hinx is. Hinx doesn't really screw up at all or drop rocks on his foot or anything. He fails to catch James Bond because James Bond is driving a super gadget car. Which is a pretty Bondian thing to do.

    Were you hoping it'd be more like the QOS chase? That's the only one I can think of where Bond actually seemed all that concerned about the danger he was in....

    EDIT: Actually, with regard to humor, everything about the DB10 in the movie is used for comic effect. It's introduced with a joke and it's stolen by Bond for a joke and an obscenity from Q. Gadget cars are best used with a cool, calm Bond, and a bit of humor, and they always have been used that way.
  • Posts: 1,917
    BT3366 wrote: »
    So if Bond isn't worried about the predicament, why should we even care? Why have the scene at all as it does little other than get Bond away from his pursuer.

    What that car chase does that's damaging is it largely undermines the tone Mendes tried to set from the mostly serious first part of the film and the creepy vibe of the SPECTRE board meeting that built up some suspense to throwing it all away with what feels like a gag left over from the Moore or Brosnan era.

    It could've worked with just a couple of light moments but it piles on and feels as if it's from an entirely different movie, and in the process makes Hinx, the henchman with the most potential in years, into another version of Jaws. While we're at it with the jokes, why not throw in the drinking guy from the Moore movies checking his bottle or glass as Hinx walks away unscathed.

    Well, if you go through the history of the Bond films, you'll find that James Bond is not often clearly perturbed by whatever danger he may be in. That just goes back to Sean and Roger. As to why you should care about a scene that lacks intense action or violence, I would again point to the expository nature of the scene, the couple of humorous moments, and the possible aesthetic appeal of looking at these two cars race around Rome. Theoretically, you're supposed to be curious about what Bond is curious about in his call to Moneypenny, and you're supposed to chuckle at a couple of jokes.

    I'm not sure how the scene exactly "piles on" light moments or how Jaws-like Hinx is. Hinx doesn't really screw up at all or drop rocks on his foot or anything. He fails to catch James Bond because James Bond is driving a super gadget car. Which is a pretty Bondian thing to do.

    Were you hoping it'd be more like the QOS chase? That's the only one I can think of where Bond actually seemed all that concerned about the danger he was in....

    EDIT: Actually, with regard to humor, everything about the DB10 in the movie is used for comic effect. It's introduced with a joke and it's stolen by Bond for a joke and an obscenity from Q. Gadget cars are best used with a cool, calm Bond, and a bit of humor, and they always have been used that way.
    Agree to disagree, I guess. To address your points further:

    -Bond is cool under fire, it's why we like him. Here he's a bit too nonchalant. Here's a villain who Bond just saw crush a guys eyes in, can we not fear him a little more? Craig's Bond has been different to his predecessors and here it's like they tried to shoehorn in a tribute to them. Bond is a much more interesting character, at least to me, when he has to use his wits to get out of a situation rather than having a convenient gadget, which this scene is ultimately about.

    -In short, yeah, I'd much rather it be like the QoS chase where it was exciting and dangerous. I didn't feel any danger in this scene. So why include it? I can watch cars racing around in a great city in any number of pictures and there's nothing particularly special about it here, especially considering the streets are largely empty. It's where the MI series is superior to Bond when you consider Fallout's chase through the very crowded streets of Paris.

    -Again, it's more than a couple of jokes. I like the freshness of not having all the gadgets work. But stick to it, don't suddenly have one work that leads to the solution. Piling on also includes the old guy and the airbag, the who's having the sleepover at Moneypenny's conversation and lastly the ejector parachute and walking down the street ending. Moore would've done this sequence to perfection. Those days are over.

    -As far as Hinx Jaws moments go, no he doesn't incorporate the humor directly, but walking out of a car that's just been torched with no emotion, unscathed is flashback time to that character. A little emotion would've gone a long way. Thankfully, we get a resolution in the train fight that made up for this.

    -I'd have much preferred this chase being halved and a conversation with Moneypenny to place more emphasis on the Pale King separately. Here is feels secondary to the chase.


  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited July 2021 Posts: 1,711
    BT3366 wrote: »

    Agree to disagree, I guess. To address your points further:

    -Here's a villain who Bond just saw crush a guys eyes in, can we not fear him a little more?

    -In short, yeah, I'd much rather it be like the QoS chase where it was exciting and dangerous. I didn't feel any danger in this scene. So why include it?

    - Those days are over.

    -As far as Hinx Jaws moments go, no he doesn't incorporate the humor directly, but walking out of a car that's just been torched with no emotion, unscathed is flashback time to that character. A little emotion would've gone a long way.

    -I'd have much preferred this chase being halved and a conversation with Moneypenny to place more emphasis on the Pale King separately. Here is feels secondary to the chase.


    Well, to return to the original point about "misunderstanding", maybe that isn't the best word, but it does sound like you just want something fundamentally different to what the film wants to do. If you prefer a Fallout-style chase to a James Bond-style chase, that's just a completely different type of scene you want. The film didn't screw up. Spectre begins with a traditional M scene, then a funny Q scene. It ends up in a crater base. It's leaning into the traditional style promised by Skyfall. It's not Fallout. To me, this isn't really different to me saying "CR's Venice sequence sucks because it's not funny" (that's not my view of course! The sequence sucks for other reasons...!)

    Anyway, if you think Spectre needed more unembellished exposition scenes (!), or that we would "fear Hinx" more if he stumbled out his car wounded and emotional in the first act (!), then we definitely agree to disagree!

    I think this all gels with my previously stated view that Spectre is underrated, and that underratedness stems from viewer expectations.
  • Posts: 631
    TBH I find a lot of the car chases in Bond films to be a bit feeble.

    The chase in DN is terrible and personally I think the lowest point of the whole of TB is the ‘chase’ where Bond’s car just sits there on an empty road like a duck in a shooting gallery and Fiona’s motorbike fires a missile at it.

    Even GF’s chase around the factory is a bit off somehow.

    IMO the only good car chases are few and far between, like OHMSS and (yes) QOS.

    So SP’s chase is just following in a long tradition of slightly tension-less car chases in Bond films.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711

    So SP’s chase is just following in a long tradition of slightly tension-less car chases in Bond films.

    That's kind of a less charitable version of what I'm saying, yeah. :))

    I give Spectre credit for at least having the chase serve other purposes and look nice.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,118
    TBH I find a lot of the car chases in Bond films to be a bit feeble.

    The chase in DN is terrible and personally I think the lowest point of the whole of TB is the ‘chase’ where Bond’s car just sits there on an empty road like a duck in a shooting gallery and Fiona’s motorbike fires a missile at it.

    Even GF’s chase around the factory is a bit off somehow.

    IMO the only good car chases are few and far between, like OHMSS and (yes) QOS.

    So SP’s chase is just following in a long tradition of slightly tension-less car chases in Bond films.

    FYEO has a great car chase too, and if we're counting trucks, so does LTK. One I do think that is rather fun and gets often overlooked is the one from TMWTGG.
  • I think the DAD car chase (on the ice) deserves a mention too
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I think the DAD car chase (on the ice) deserves a mention too

    Yeah. The outlandish location makes it very distinctive. And at times, it looks like the chase is on another planet.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    DAD has a good score. The "reverse recording" trick that Arnold was so proud of isn't my thing, but overall the score is trilling and pretty solid.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,587
    TLD, DAD are great. The concept of Bond vs Zao trading gadgets on ice is the only redeeming aspect of the 2nd half. I do like them in the close quarters of the ice palace. Heck even DAF is decent enough with the Mach 1 roaring around the streets of Vegas.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    I think the car chases in TLD and TSWLM deserve a shout out as well,
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    When I saw the set pics of Skyfall back in 2012, I thought the DB5 was going to be up against...maybe a helicopter on the Scottish highlands in a distinctive car chase. I was a bit disappointed, that didn't happen.
  • GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think the DAD car chase (on the ice) deserves a mention too

    Yeah. The outlandish location makes it very distinctive. And at times, it looks like the chase is on another planet.

    Yes, Bond and Zao in a gadget duel near the ice fountains on Saturn's moon Enceladus...
  • Posts: 207
    I absolutely love the car chase in The Living Daylights.
  • Zarozzor wrote: »
    I absolutely love the car chase in The Living Daylights.

    agreed, it's a fantastic chase sequence, with a great score as well. The cello scene directly afterwards is also very well-done.
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