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WARNING SPOILERS: SPECTRE Plot hole?

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  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    What about the torture scene exactly?
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    I think ESB was trying to erase Bonds memory so that when Bond was actually killed, he would not recognise Swann? happy to be corrected, all very strange as you would have thought that knowing what you are going to miss is far worse than being with a load of strangers as the sense of loss is negated.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Blofeld had spent a lot of money on the chair and computer, so he wanted
    To use it, at least once ! :D
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    It's a purvis and wade plot so bound to be riddled with nonsense but overall I felt it made a lot more sense than Skyfall. It's total bonkers, but in the sense that it's far fetched and bonkers, rather than it doesn't actually have any internal coherence.
  • Scaramanga12Scaramanga12
    Posts: 562
    Getafix wrote: »
    What about the torture scene exactly?

    Blofeld claimed it would affect Bond a lot (can't remember exactly how)

  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    Did we assume that? Not ever mentioned, hmmm.

    Yes, there is a lack of extras in SP which lends it an eerie feel and may be intended to make us feel that Bond is a lonely person and that he is battling demons in his head. Or it may be cos they are rubbish at doing extras, I mean those at the Miami airport in CR, or the commuters in SF just didn't convince.

    I makes the film feel like a conspiracy thriller like The Parallax View. More than any other Bond movie, SP is one where you feel that the next one could start and it would turn out that it was all a dream. It just feels unconnected to the real world. Almost like the vibe of The Sixth Sense.
  • seshmeisterseshmeister
    edited October 2015 Posts: 10
    I think the reason that the CNS building is empty is because the scene can't happen if it isn't which is why I called it a plot hole.

    I guess they compromised on reality rather than come up with something else.
    I don't think the invisible car argument can be made since CR was a reboot of style and substance.

    I think James King made a good point on the BBC radio film show this week that for all the people nitpicking at SP they should pause and remember just how shit DAD was and how much things have improved in recent years.

    That said it's a pity about some of the missteps in SP for example the lack of menace and tension in the car chase since when Hinx draws up alongside Bond he just looks at him and given Bond is having a chat with Moneypenny at the same time it feels as dangerous as Roger on a gondolier hovercraft or a Top Gear bit.
  • seshmeisterseshmeister
    edited October 2015 Posts: 10
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    What about the torture scene exactly?

    Blofeld claimed it would affect Bond a lot (can't remember exactly how)

    As patb said, it was meant to scramble his memory.

    No explanation of why it didn't work was given.

    Unless we misheard it and he said it would affect the audiences memory...
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,138
    It's made out in the film that Oberhausers plan all along was to punish Bond for basically stealing his father's affection. That the events of all prior 3 films were for that purpose. Yet Mathis tells Bond in QOS "She did a deal, your life for the money". It's a poor continuity choice from the writers as Vesper takes her own life, Oberhauser did not plot her death so therefore can not be the author of that particular pain. God knows why they didn't add some dialogue in which Oberhauser spoke of his plan for power and that what a beautiful twist of fate that the man who would be made a 00 agent to bring down his organisation would be the same man who would once stole his father's love. Cuckoo!
  • dire399dire399
    Posts: 61
    seshmeister wrote: »
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    What about the torture scene exactly?

    Blofeld claimed it would affect Bond a lot (can't remember exactly how)

    As patb said, it was meant to scramble his memory.

    No explanation of why it didn't work was given.

    Unless we misheard it and he said it would affect the audiences memory...

    I guess it did work somehow. He forgets being 007 and only remembers Swann, and they live on happily ever after. *lol*
  • andmcitandmcit
    Posts: 1,068
    He also remembered the DB5 too... :)

    Who did they have rebuilding it btw, Ed China?
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    Posts: 630
    From what i know there was a scene in which C sends all home. Plus, it's empty because the system is not online yet, so no point to have all there
  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 392
    Can someone explain why there is a VHS tape of Vesper in the cache? CR happened in 2006 it was written inside the film, not 1996. Also why is Mr White computer an antique.
  • andmcitandmcit
    Posts: 1,068
    SF may have happened in 2006 but the interrogation tape where Vesper was compromised could've happened far earlier and was Quantum's hold over her until they decided when best to exploit it. The antique computer could be a sign of a very neurotic user who's afraid of being hacked and is using PC hardware architecture that cannot be scrutinised so easily which of course is what ESB is all about after all
  • Scaramanga12Scaramanga12
    Posts: 562
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    It's made out in the film that Oberhausers plan all along was to punish Bond for basically stealing his father's affection. That the events of all prior 3 films were for that purpose. Yet Mathis tells Bond in QOS "She did a deal, tour life for the money". It's a poor continuity choice from the writers as Vesper takes her own life, Oberhauser did not plot her death so therefore can not be the author of that particular pain. God knows why they didn't add some dialogue in which Oberhauser spoke of his plan for power and that what a beautiful twist of fate that the man who would be made a 00 agent to bring down his organisation would be the same man who would once stole his father's love. Cuckoo!

    Regarding the Mathis thing, didn't she also still want to save her Algerian 'boyfriend', or had she realised she'd been duped by that point?

  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 392
    I think the torture scene implanted in Bond incapacity to kill Blofeld.
    Also he might be programmed to do something like kill M or anything Blofeld deem fit.
    Just a hunch.
  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 392
    Torture scene was a late addition to the film so It's not P&W fault
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Stamper wrote: »
    Can someone explain why there is a VHS tape of Vesper in the cache? CR happened in 2006 it was written inside the film, not 1996. Also why is Mr White computer an antique.

    Hi year is a good point. The computer is a GPS system it's also limited in technology for the purpose that it's running a secure system. It's likely something Spectre agents were provided so communications were under the radar for intelligence services to pick up on.
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    Why did blofeld travel to London after the base exploded. He had no idea bond was going there did he?
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    It's made out in the film that Oberhausers plan all along was to punish Bond for basically stealing his father's affection. That the events of all prior 3 films were for that purpose. Yet Mathis tells Bond in QOS "She did a deal, tour life for the money". It's a poor continuity choice from the writers as Vesper takes her own life, Oberhauser did not plot her death so therefore can not be the author of that particular pain. God knows why they didn't add some dialogue in which Oberhauser spoke of his plan for power and that what a beautiful twist of fate that the man who would be made a 00 agent to bring down his organisation would be the same man who would once stole his father's love. Cuckoo!

    Regarding the Mathis thing, didn't she also still want to save her Algerian 'boyfriend', or had she realised she'd been duped by that point?

    I don't think she knew. I think she was in am impossible position and she thought by going ahead she could still save her boyfriend, however saved Bond along the way.
  • Scaramanga12Scaramanga12
    Posts: 562
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    I don't think she knew. I think she was in am impossible position and she thought by going ahead she could still save her boyfriend, however saved Bond along the way.

    It's always been a slight plot hole for me that Vesper bargains the money for Bond's life. Couldn't Mr White just say we'll kill your boyfriend unless you get us the money?


  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,232
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    I don't think she knew. I think she was in am impossible position and she thought by going ahead she could still save her boyfriend, however saved Bond along the way.

    It's always been a slight plot hole for me that Vesper bargains the money for Bond's life. Couldn't Mr White just say we'll kill your boyfriend unless you get us the money?


    She loved them both. I don't think it's too much of a stretch for her to bargain for both of them, especially seeing as Yusef ended up being a Quantum/Spectre agent anyway.
  • andmcitandmcit
    Posts: 1,068
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Why did blofeld travel to London after the base exploded. He had no idea bond was going there did he?

    Where else would Bond go - he even asked ESB to confirm C was one of his disciples so naturally would go there quick smartish to spoil the party. The fitters who did the bulletproof screen must've been given a heck of a bonus and on-site security given a few days off

  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    I thought the bullet proof screen might have been part of the firing range. Or just standard within mi6.
  • minorMajor9thminorMajor9th
    edited November 2015 Posts: 157
    Darius wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I would like to see any comments from doctors within the forum but my gut reaction (happy to be corrected) is that the likelihood of someone drilling into you in that area (twice) and being able to recover so quickly/easily is slim to say the least. As some others have pointed to, the movie could have had more tension and the drill bit getting closer and closer to his head/eye and the watch ticking down may have been an alternative to seeing the drill go in and out twice into his neck
    PS looking forward to mythbusters doing this scene

    The reality is that drill stimulation to nerves in this area would create serious problems and an instant recovery would be unlikely, depending on whether lasting harm was intended or not. But, hey, this is James Bond we're talking about here. We're not in reality, we're in fantasy!

    Yes, but when Bond was tortured in Casino Royale he had to recover in hospital, and in Skyfall the shrapnel in his shoulder interfered with his aim. In the Craig films we've come to expect consequences for these kind of traumas.
  • minorMajor9thminorMajor9th
    edited November 2015 Posts: 157
    Darius wrote: »
    00Ralf wrote: »
    How the heck did Bond recover from the lobotomy drill torture? It struck me as incredibly weird that he skillfully took down a few SPECTRE minions and flew a helicopter seconds after it... To me, it would've been more effective if, like in Goldfinger, the drills were slowly approaching his head and never actually reached it.

    Bond was not being lobotomised. A lobotomy is carried out on the frontal lobe of the brain, not in the neck, where Bond was being tortured.

    Blofeld mentioned destroying Bond's fusiform gyrus, so he could no longer recognise the faces of his loved ones. The angle of the drill is consistent to a penetration of the occipital bone.

    Fusiform_gyrus_animation.gif
    Matt007 wrote: »
    I thought the bullet proof screen might have been part of the firing range. Or just standard within mi6.

    In the script it's a pressure testing chamber within Q Branch.

  • DariusDarius UK
    edited November 2015 Posts: 354
    minorMajor9th wrote: »
    Darius wrote: »

    Bond was not being lobotomised. A lobotomy is carried out on the frontal lobe of the brain, not in the neck, where Bond was being tortured.

    Blofeld mentioned destroying Bond's fusiform gyrus, so he could no longer recognise the faces of his loved ones. The angle of the drill is consistent to a penetration of the occipital bone.

    You are correct, but this is not technically-speaking, a lobotomy.

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    This is the issue with doing a different style of Bond movie. I understand why he did it but it's still DC as Bond and we have seen him bleeding, bruised and scared in the previous movies (and the public seemed to respond to that) and now he seems to be made of teflon
  • RC7RC7
    edited November 2015 Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    This is the issue with doing a different style of Bond movie. I understand why he did it but it's still DC as Bond and we have seen him bleeding, bruised and scared in the previous movies (and the public seemed to respond to that) and now he seems to be made of teflon

    He gets the shit kicked out of him by Hinx. He doesn't kick him out of a window like Moore.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Not a mark on him and he is so exhausted that he jumps into bed with Swan ASAP, the contrast to the shower seen in CR is for all to see. Its a very different Bond but its still DC. What other Bond went though such dramatic changes in terms of the way they reacted to events?
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