Has and/or is the Daniel Craig era living up to your expectations

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  • Next you will be telling us Caroline Bliss was a better Moneypenny than Lois Maxwell or that Robert Brown is better than Bernard Lee. You need your head checked if you think Lazenby was a better Bond or Actor than Sean or Dan. BTW Bond is Scottish.

    Hey I didn't say Connery lol. I think he's a better Bond than Craig and Moore.

    The absolute worst line deliveries are the Hilary Baker dubbing scenes. The Lazenby one liners were mostly dubbed in afterwards. Not the guy's fault.

    Scottish Bond? Literary but not on screen unless it's Connery.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    The Bond family home was in Scotland in Skyfall. Craigs Bond clearly has the Scottish Swiss roots.....same as Fleming.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The Bond family home was in Scotland in Skyfall. Craigs Bond clearly has the Scottish Swiss roots.....same as Fleming.

    From what is known, raised in Glencoe, Scotland. After the death of his parents when Bond was 11, Bond goes to live with his aunt, Miss Charmian Bond, in the village of Pett Bottom in Kent, where he completes his early education. Later, he briefly attends Eton College but is removed after two halves because of girl trouble with a maid. Bond was sent to Fettes College in Edinburgh, Scotland to complete his education. We then know he moved on from Eton to Cambridge (YOLT) "you forget...I took a first in oriental languages at Cambridge". Bond spent a lot of time either side of the border, likely how his accent can go from Connery's Scottish to Moore's southern English without issue.
  • Ok but when I watch Roger Moore, Daniel Craig, Tim Dalton, G Lazenby I think of them as English. Tying to imagine Roger Moore came from Scotland is rather difficult.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Is it. He was born in Scotland but mainly lived in England.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Kenneth Branagh and Sam Neil were born in N.Ireland, both don't have
    an accent :)) bit of a joke but, Many old families are Anglo Scottish or
    Anglo Irish. So you can be Scottish but sound very English. ;)
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited November 2015 Posts: 2,138
    Next you will be telling us Caroline Bliss was a better Moneypenny than Lois Maxwell or that Robert Brown is better than Bernard Lee. You need your head checked if you think Lazenby was a better Bond or Actor than Sean or Dan. BTW Bond is Scottish.

    Hey I didn't say Connery lol. I think he's a better Bond than Craig and Moore.

    The absolute worst line deliveries are the Hilary Baker dubbing scenes. The Lazenby one liners were mostly dubbed in afterwards. Not the guy's fault.

    Scottish Bond? Literary but not on screen unless it's Connery.

    I don't hold the dubbing against Lazenby, Bond was supposed to be impersonating Sir Hilary Bray, Lazenby couldn't do the accent so was over dubbed was used. From what I gather without Lazenby knowing. Lazenby gave as good as he could for someone who had not acted before. More people appreciate OHMSS now due to two factors. 1. It was real, gritty and without comical elements. New fans to the franchise like these elements to Dan's movies and going back at looking at OHMSS they see it more in DN, FRWL OHMSS and LTD & LTK. 2. the audience back then were sceptical about an Aussie becoming Bond, particularly an actor they had never heard of and anyone following Sean's success was going to struggle to convince the audience. Dan had the same issue when he was announced as Bond, the mainstream media and some fans turned on him before CR, but Dan delivered on CR and change that perception whereas Lazenby did not. Hence Moore comes in after Sean's second stint, people knew and liked him already for his work as Templar in the Saint which was a cult show and his transition to Bond was easier.

  • but Dan delivered on CR and change that perception whereas Lazenby did not.

    Lazenby was offered more films as you well know. At 30 years old he could have had a very long stint and we wouldn't have had pensioner Moore hanging from a zeppelin.

    Besides, following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan.

  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited November 2015 Posts: 2,138

    but Dan delivered on CR and change that perception whereas Lazenby did not.

    Lazenby was offered more films as you well know. At 30 years old he could have had a very long stint and we wouldn't have had pensioner Moore hanging from a zeppelin.

    Besides, following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan.

    "following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan"
    Disagree the damage done and how silly things got towards the end of Brosnan's era the job was to take Bond back to early Connery, Bond has never been more globally appreciated than under Dan's tenure.

    "Lazenby was offered more films as you well know. At 30 years old he could have had a very long stint and we wouldn't have had pensioner Moore hanging from a zeppelin."

    To Quote Lazenby himself from the Everything Or Nothing Documentary "I would be hanging out with Roman Polanski at parties and he would bring people over and say, meet my friend James Bond, then a year later people would come over and Polanski would say "have you met George the out of work actor".

    Lazenby himself says he blew it because he wanted to be cool, being a government man in a suit was not cool to the ladies. He was hanging about with hippies doing LSD with Ronan O'Rahilly the founder of Radio Caroline. He was warned by Broccoli and Saltzman to be clean shaven for the OHMSS he rebelled and turned up with long hair and a long beard he rebelled again them because Ronan O'Rahilly told Lazenby he was being exploited.

    He left a lasting impression on Diana Rigg who was also quoted as saying, "I can no longer cater for his obsession with himself. He is utterly, unbelievably ... bloody impossible".[

    Lazenby may have been offered roles but did nothing of any artistic or critical merit since OHMSS, he found his place a TV actor with bit parts in Diagnosis Murder and Baywatch.
  • Lazenby may have been offered roles but did nothing of any artistic or critical merit since OHMSS, he found his place a TV actor with bit parts in Diagnosis Murder and Baywatch.

    I meant he was offered more Bond films. I believe it may have been a 7 film contract. He turned it down. You can't say he wasn't a success. He wouldn't have been offered that contract otherwise.

    After he turned it down, Cubby Brocolli blackened his name and made him unemployable. Lazenby made a massive mistake as he has admitted.


  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited November 2015 Posts: 2,138
    Lazenby may have been offered roles but did nothing of any artistic or critical merit since OHMSS, he found his place a TV actor with bit parts in Diagnosis Murder and Baywatch.

    I meant he was offered more Bond films. I believe it may have been a 7 film contract. He turned it down. You can't say he wasn't a success. He wouldn't have been offered that contract otherwise.

    After he turned it down, Cubby Brocolli blackened his name and made him unemployable. Lazenby made a massive mistake as he has admitted.


    Ah I see, I don't disagree he would have probably got better and better and the films would have flowed more smoothly. However it did not, but worth pointing out Lazenby has contradicted himself on his reasons twice. He said previously his agent Ronan O'Rahilly advised him to reject the contract, that the secret agent would be archaic in the liberated 1970s and his career would be ruined. He was earlier quoted in 1969 stating his reasons for leaving were when ideads for TMWTGG was to be his next project " "They made me feel like I was mindless. They disregarded everything I suggested simply because I hadn't been in the film business like them for about a thousand years".

    So on one hand he is saying he didn't want to be Bond because his agent told him he would no longer be cool by the 70's but had earlier cited it was because EON wouldn't listen to his suggestions. Odd to say the least?

  • Ah I see, I don't disagree he would have probably got better and better and the films would have flowed more smoothly. However it did not, but worth pointing out Lazenby has contradicted himself on his reasons twice. He said previously his agent Ronan O'Rahilly advised him to reject the contract, that the secret agent would be archaic in the liberated 1970s and his career would be ruined. He was earlier quoted in 1969 stating his reasons for leaving were when ideads for TMWTGG was to be his next project " "They made me feel like I was mindless. They disregarded everything I suggested simply because I hadn't been in the film business like them for about a thousand years".

    So on one hand he is saying he didn't want to be Bond because his agent told him he would no longer be cool by the 70's but had earlier cited it was because EON wouldn't listen to his suggestions. Odd to say the least?

    Yeah either way it was his decision to back out. All I'm saying is that I often hear (from casual fans) that Lazenby was rubbish as Bond and then back that up it with the fact he only made one film. The truth is he could have had a very long stint as Bond. To me, he was a very good bond already in OHMSS.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Besides, following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan.
    No doubt about this. It's certainly true. There are only two actors who were difficult to follow (evidently). Sean Connery and Roger Moore, because they both owned the role completely. Their successors did not succeed at the time, which is all that matters. How we look back on Lazenby and Dalton's era now is irrelevant.

    We will see what happens post-Craig, but I suspect he will be the third actor who will be difficult to follow, so sadly we may have a failure before we have another success.

    Just to be clear, from my perspective, Lazenby is not a better actor than Moore. I think that should be self-evident to anyone and not need explanation.
    A much better Bond than Craig and Moore.
    I disagree. Lazenby was not even close to either Craig or Moore. He lucked out with a superb novel, an exceptional director, incredible cinematography and iconic score, and a brilliant co-star. Even an ape should have been able to make something with what he was given imho. He did well enough but people overpraise his performance without fully acknowledging all the other factors that helped his performance look good in that film. He was serviceable no doubt.....that's it.

    The only thing he did uniquely bring was vulnerability, but that was because the film called for it. Both Craig and Moore can deliver that (they've done it in other films).

    Craig showed what actually can be done with the privilege of superb source material in CR. Moore showed how rubbish source material and scripts can be salvaged.

    Regarding a gay Q, if it was incidental (as has been hypothesized) I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, I wouldn't want it to be a recurring plot point. That's not necessary imho, especially not in the Bond universe. Neither was a female M for 7 films either.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Patb's law - a reminder - all threads must evolve into a discussion about who is the best Bond or which is the best Bond movie :)
  • bondjames wrote: »

    Just to be clear, from my perspective, Lazenby is not a better actor than Moore. I think that should be self-evident to anyone and not need explanation.

    I said Lazenby is a better Bond than Moore, not a better actor. Moore never convinces in the fight scenes for one.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »

    Just to be clear, from my perspective, Lazenby is not a better actor than Moore. I think that should be self-evident to anyone and not need explanation.

    I said Lazenby is a better Bond than Moore, not a better actor. Moore never convinces in the fight scenes for one.

    Agreed. He doesn't convince in the fight scenes, but he is a lot more convincing in other areas imho, and was consistent over 7 films, including some dodgy ones. He should get more credit for that.

    As I said, Lazenby was given a gift with the OHMSS script and all the other things that were provided for that film. He just needed to show up, just like Brosnan just needed to show up for GE imho..
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    O6G wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    So much fucking negativity on this forum.
    I feel so saddened by the fact that the only seemingly good internet forum for James Bond is ridden with elitist old passive...."

    -f-wording, Swear-wording andFOUL language=british bashing-around crap talk; to trash half one's language in every third uttering online and offline forces You to eat more to keep up-with dwindling fortune's as the debilitating effect!
    Your relative misfortune is actually a result of You trashing Yourself(I was almost going to use the F-word).Your LANGUAGE is Your Best and First FORTUNE! do not riddle it with "British Crap Talking"
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 4,617
    GL fitted the Bond that Hunt wanted, from what I have seen and read of Hunt, he placed great focus on the look of Bond re the physicality and the fight scenes. Hence the very physical screen tests. With respect to RM, I am not sure if Hunt would have cast him as he would not have been a good fit for the Bond that Hunt wanted. Hunt was ahead of his time IMHO and was looking for DC. (my God , DC fighting on the beach, DC in the cable car, DC alongside Ms Rigg in an Aston DBS!!! ,my head explodes) the best Bond movies are the ones that can never be made.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    patb wrote: »
    the best Bond movies are the ones that can never be made.

    Yes, - and regretfully so!
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    patb wrote: »
    GL fitted the Bond that Hunt wanted, from what I have seen and read of Hunt, he placed great focus on the look of Bond re the physicality and the fight scenes. Hence the very physical screen tests. With respect to RM, I am not sure if Hunt would have cast him as he would not have been a good fit for the Bond that Hunt wanted. Hunt was ahead of his time IMHO and was looking for DC. (my God , DC fighting on the beach, DC in the cable car, DC alongside Ms Rigg in an Aston DBS!!! ,my head explodes) the best Bond movies are the ones that can never be made.

    Said this earlier, CR showed what Craig could do with a Fleming Novel with a twist. If there had been more novels from Fleming not yet put on screen Craig's tenure would have been even stronger as nobody wrote Bond story or dialogue like Fleming.

    Imagine Craig in TMWTGG or Octopussy? they would have been incredible.
  • patb wrote: »
    GL fitted the Bond that Hunt wanted, from what I have seen and read of Hunt, he placed great focus on the look of Bond re the physicality and the fight scenes. Hence the very physical screen tests. With respect to RM, I am not sure if Hunt would have cast him as he would not have been a good fit for the Bond that Hunt wanted. Hunt was ahead of his time IMHO and was looking for DC. (my God , DC fighting on the beach, DC in the cable car, DC alongside Ms Rigg in an Aston DBS!!! ,my head explodes) the best Bond movies are the ones that can never be made.

    I think at the end Craig would have been more suited to saying 'waste of a good windscreen', shoving miss Rigg out of the car, and driving off after Blofeld.



  • Posts: 582
    Craig is the best Bond actor, IMO, but Connery is probably a better Bond. Of course, that could just be because I'm not interested in forcing a Fleming's portrayal from every actor, which is why I like them all equally except Lazenby.

    I thought Lazenby did an excellent job. I think for so many years (even today) casual fans were unaware of the Hilary Bray dubbing that they lay the fault of those scenes to Lazenby. And when you look at other scenes imo he does a very fine job of portraying a worldly English gentlemen who can land a punch and woo a women. A much better Bond than Craig and Moore.

    Next you will be telling us Caroline Bliss was a better Moneypenny than Lois Maxwell or that Robert Brown is better than Bernard Lee. You need your head checked if you think Lazenby was a better Bond or Actor than Sean or Dan. BTW Bond is Scottish.

    Okay, I disagree with these views on Lazenby, but you are been a bit rude. Of course Lois Maxwell is better than Caroline Bliss but if someone were to express that opinion or any opinion we do not personally agree with can we not respond in this way. Constructive discussion please.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    patb wrote: »
    GL fitted the Bond that Hunt wanted, from what I have seen and read of Hunt, he placed great focus on the look of Bond re the physicality and the fight scenes. Hence the very physical screen tests. With respect to RM, I am not sure if Hunt would have cast him as he would not have been a good fit for the Bond that Hunt wanted. Hunt was ahead of his time IMHO and was looking for DC. (my God , DC fighting on the beach, DC in the cable car, DC alongside Ms Rigg in an Aston DBS!!! ,my head explodes) the best Bond movies are the ones that can never be made.

    Good post.
  • Posts: 582

    but Dan delivered on CR and change that perception whereas Lazenby did not.

    Lazenby was offered more films as you well know. At 30 years old he could have had a very long stint and we wouldn't have had pensioner Moore hanging from a zeppelin.

    Besides, following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan.

    "following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan"
    Disagree the damage done and how silly things got towards the end of Brosnan's era the job was to take Bond back to early Connery, Bond has never been more globally appreciated than under Dan's tenure.

    "Lazenby was offered more films as you well know. At 30 years old he could have had a very long stint and we wouldn't have had pensioner Moore hanging from a zeppelin."

    To Quote Lazenby himself from the Everything Or Nothing Documentary "I would be hanging out with Roman Polanski at parties and he would bring people over and say, meet my friend James Bond, then a year later people would come over and Polanski would say "have you met George the out of work actor".

    Lazenby himself says he blew it because he wanted to be cool, being a government man in a suit was not cool to the ladies. He was hanging about with hippies doing LSD with Ronan O'Rahilly the founder of Radio Caroline. He was warned by Broccoli and Saltzman to be clean shaven for the OHMSS he rebelled and turned up with long hair and a long beard he rebelled again them because Ronan O'Rahilly told Lazenby he was being exploited.

    He left a lasting impression on Diana Rigg who was also quoted as saying, "I can no longer cater for his obsession with himself. He is utterly, unbelievably ... bloody impossible".[

    Lazenby may have been offered roles but did nothing of any artistic or critical merit since OHMSS, he found his place a TV actor with bit parts in Diagnosis Murder and Baywatch.

    Personally I never understood what the deal was with Lazenby wearing a beard at the premiere. He probably did it just to annoy Broccoli and Saltzman, but what would it matter if an actor came to the premiere with a beard?
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Craig is the best Bond actor, IMO, but Connery is probably a better Bond. Of course, that could just be because I'm not interested in forcing a Fleming's portrayal from every actor, which is why I like them all equally except Lazenby.

    I thought Lazenby did an excellent job. I think for so many years (even today) casual fans were unaware of the Hilary Bray dubbing that they lay the fault of those scenes to Lazenby. And when you look at other scenes imo he does a very fine job of portraying a worldly English gentlemen who can land a punch and woo a women. A much better Bond than Craig and Moore.

    Next you will be telling us Caroline Bliss was a better Moneypenny than Lois Maxwell or that Robert Brown is better than Bernard Lee. You need your head checked if you think Lazenby was a better Bond or Actor than Sean or Dan. BTW Bond is Scottish.

    Okay, I disagree with these views on Lazenby, but you are been a bit rude. Of course Lois Maxwell is better than Caroline Bliss but if someone were to express that opinion or any opinion we do not personally agree with can we not respond in this way. Constructive discussion please.

    It was the Lazenby Bond that was my first Bond Movie-I was 9 years Old; and the beautiful car he was driving got me caught on cars forever..!-therefore I can't bash him for being Bond, all too beautiful memories for that..!
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    tigers99 wrote: »

    but Dan delivered on CR and change that perception whereas Lazenby did not.

    Lazenby was offered more films as you well know. At 30 years old he could have had a very long stint and we wouldn't have had pensioner Moore hanging from a zeppelin.

    Besides, following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan.

    "following Connery is a damn sight harder than following Brosnan"
    Disagree the damage done and how silly things got towards the end of Brosnan's era the job was to take Bond back to early Connery, Bond has never been more globally appreciated than under Dan's tenure.

    "Lazenby was offered more films as you well know. At 30 years old he could have had a very long stint and we wouldn't have had pensioner Moore hanging from a zeppelin."

    To Quote Lazenby himself from the Everything Or Nothing Documentary "I would be hanging out with Roman Polanski at parties and he would bring people over and say, meet my friend James Bond, then a year later people would come over and Polanski would say "have you met George the out of work actor".

    Lazenby himself says he blew it because he wanted to be cool, being a government man in a suit was not cool to the ladies. He was hanging about with hippies doing LSD with Ronan O'Rahilly the founder of Radio Caroline. He was warned by Broccoli and Saltzman to be clean shaven for the OHMSS he rebelled and turned up with long hair and a long beard he rebelled again them because Ronan O'Rahilly told Lazenby he was being exploited.

    He left a lasting impression on Diana Rigg who was also quoted as saying, "I can no longer cater for his obsession with himself. He is utterly, unbelievably ... bloody impossible".[

    Lazenby may have been offered roles but did nothing of any artistic or critical merit since OHMSS, he found his place a TV actor with bit parts in Diagnosis Murder and Baywatch.

    Personally I never understood what the deal was with Lazenby wearing a beard at the premiere. He probably did it just to annoy Broccoli and Saltzman, but what would it matter if an actor came to the premiere with a beard?

    You have to put it in to context at the time. Long hair and a beard was cool because it was anti establishment and the look was to rebel against what the hippie movement called a supressed society. Broccoli and Saltzman always wanted their Bonds to be clean cut and dressed to thrill they strongly believed you had to be the gentleman on screen as you were off it as you represented the Bond brand. Lazenby did it to rebel, but that was his downfall he took poor advice from Ronan O'Rahilly a key man in the swinging sixties anti establishment movement.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    After CR EON was never able again to deliver something similarly good.
    P+W just blatantly copied their own scripts from the Brosnan era and even recycled Alec Trevelyan.
    It's the third time in a row that the first movie of an actor is the best followed by weaker movies.
    SP seems to become Craig's DAD ratings wise and who knows if SP will not get the same treatment in 5-10 years than DAD got.

    If I look at other eras I can't say this one was a let down, if I judge it by its own, the flaws are regrettable.
    But I rather get one of the greatest per era and mixed results for the rest than only mediocre ones in one era, which luckily has never happend so far.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The good thing is every Bond actor has delivered at least one absolutely superb Bond film imho (in my estimation, for Dalton that is LTK although I know others disagree). That is remarkable when you think about it.
  • bondjames wrote: »

    Their successors did not succeed at the time, which is all that matters. How we look back on Lazenby and Dalton's era now is irrelevant.

    In what sense didn't they succeed? Like I say Lazenby was offered more bond films. If he hadn't turned it down would you then deem him a success?

    Dalton was unlucky with the legal wrangling which prevented a third film. Again I don't see how you can deem him a failure.




  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »

    Their successors did not succeed at the time, which is all that matters. How we look back on Lazenby and Dalton's era now is irrelevant.

    In what sense didn't they succeed? Like I say Lazenby was offered more bond films. If he hadn't turned it down would you then deem him a success?

    Dalton was unlucky with the legal wrangling which prevented a third film. Again I don't see how you can deem him a failure.

    From a box office perspective, both films (OHMSS & LTK) were comparable failures in the US market compared to their predecessors and successors. The US market did matter a lot back then, and EON paid attention to it.

    With respect to Lazenby in particular, Michael Wilson has said on camera that the public did not take to him which is regrettable (I'm paraphrasing) and Dalton's lack of US acceptance was noted in Everything or Nothing (but with more appreciation by EON for what he creatively tried to do with the role).
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