Craig Bond’s “out of character moments”…

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  • Posts: 11,189
    How was Mathis "bearly alive" when he was in the boot?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @BAIN123 Mathis got beaten severely and even the policemen say 'He's still alive!' meaning they did a big number on him.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DAVID BLAINE!!!
  • edited August 2011 Posts: 11,189
    @BAIN123 Mathis got beaten severely and even the policemen say 'He's still alive!' meaning they did a big number on him.
    We didn't see him getting beaten though did we? :-?

    He just seemed to "turn up" from what I remember.
  • Posts: 1,894
    it doesn't add up for me between using Mathis as a human shield (Bond had a gun that he could have used to protect him) and then putting his corpse in the dumpster.
    When the police pulled Bond over, they knew Mathis was in the trunk. However, they had been told that Mathis was dead. Whoever beat him didn't do a very good job of it. Bond never used Mathis as a human shield - he was told to take Mathis out of the trunk, and when one of the police realised Mathis was still alive, he opened fire. Bond never had a chance to get Mathis out of the line of fire. If you watch that particular scene again, Bond had only just pulled Mathis from the car when the shooting starts.

    As for putting the corpse in the dumpster, it's pretty obvious that Bond was trying to buy time. He knew thet Quantum would come loking for him, but he also knew the first people on-scene would be the La Paz police, who might not be in Quantum's pocket. Especially given that the situation didn't go down as originally planned, which probably involved Bond being arrested for Mathis' murder. Bond knew it would take some time for the police to work out exactly what had happened and for word to travel to the people pulling the strings, so he attempted to slow them down even further by dumping Mathis' body in the dumpster and taking the money, staging the scene of the crime to make it look like a mugging gone wrong. He was attempting to keep the polcie busy by setting things up to look like two separate crimes, hoping that it would be a while before anyone worked out that Mathis was connected to the two police. For the most part, it worked - he was able to get up in the air and inspect the Tierra Projects before anyone from Quantum realised where he was. And even then, it took a phonecall from the man at the airstrip to tip them off.

    Bond may not have liked leaving Mathis behind like that, but what other choice did he have? He knew Quantum was closing in, and that the CIA and MI6 were being manipulated. He couldn't simply leave Mathis' body in the middle of the street, where Mathis could easily be painted as corrupt. Nor could Bond take Mathis with him, because that would involve laeving Mathis' body in the car when he and Camille took the DC-10 to the skies. And he couldn't afford to waste time looking for a more dignified place to leave Mathis' body because there was a very real chance that Quantum could have caught up with him.

    As Bond pointed out, Mathis would not have minded having his body left in a dumpster like that. And I tend to agree with that sentiment. Mathis had been a spy for a long time, and he knew the realities of his chosen career. Like I said, I think Mathis was filled with this enormous sadness. He no doubt did something or knew something that left a lasting impression on him, one that made him uncomfortable to say the least. It was never really explored (though implied), but I think it might make an interesting subplot in BOND 23 - especially since Mathis admitted his was a cover-name. Mathis joined with Bond because he was looking for a place to die. The where and how did not matter; what he died for was important. Mathis was able to help Bond towards his measure of comfort, and in doing so, was able to make his own peace. When he said that it didn't hurt anymore, he wasn't talking about his wounds - he realised he was dying and knew it was time to let go of his own demons. That's what stopped hurting. And because he was able to let go, whatever happened next didn't matter to Mathis.
  • Posts: 1,817
    Agree. As Hyman Roth said: "this is the business we've chosen!"
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Well said @shadowonthesun. I have nothing further to add.
  • Posts: 289
    yup I too agree with shadowonthesun.....

    I would have to say that Bond breaking into M's place was two fold to prove to M that in a juvenile way he could get into secure places and to use her network connection.
  • edited August 2011 Posts: 11,189
    "He was attempting to keep the polcie busy by setting things up to look like two separate crimes, hoping that it would be a while before anyone worked out that Mathis was connected to the two police"

    That doesn't make sense according to the clip though.



    If you look at the last 17 seconds Bond just leaves Mathis in the skip (dumpster) with the dead policeman lying right next to it. You can even see the flashing blue lights on the motorcycle. It would only take the authorities a few seconds to connect the two.
  • Posts: 1,894
    If you look at the last 17 seconds Bond just leaves Mathis in the skip (dumpster) with the dead policeman lying right next to it. You can even see the flashing blue lights on the motorcycle. It would only take the authorities a few seconds to connect the two.
    Not ncessairly. When the La Paz police arrive on-scene, their attention will be taken by the two dead officers. Remember, things did not go down the way they had originally been planned to - those two officers were supposed to report in with Bond in cuffs and the body of Mathis. If and when they found Mathis' body in the dumspter, they would also find his empty wallet. It would look like a robbery or mugging gone wrong. There would be no immediate physical evidence to suggest Mathis' death is connected to the two police. Any officer on-scene would have to investigate the two incidents as separate crimes until evidence emerged that they were connected to one another.

    Of course, you could assume that every officer in the La Paz police department is corrupt, but I don't think so. Felix Letier clearly says that General Medrano cannot stage his coup until he pays off the army and the police. He certainly has loyal followers in the police, but the fact that he only has two officers go after Bond, and the way they do it very discreetly, implies his influence is limited.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    This may also follow in with @shadowonthesun's description of the scene. The whole incident seems to be seen as two different crimes even by MI6, because it is reported to M that 'Bond shot Mathis and put two policemen in the hospital'. So even the agency Bond works for has suspicions on what went on and considering Bond's treatment of Mathis at the end of CR, M could have thought that Bond was on some hidden agenda.
  • edited August 2011 Posts: 11,189
    If you look at the last 17 seconds Bond just leaves Mathis in the skip (dumpster) with the dead policeman lying right next to it. You can even see the flashing blue lights on the motorcycle. It would only take the authorities a few seconds to connect the two.
    Not ncessairly. When the La Paz police arrive on-scene, their attention will be taken by the two dead officers. Remember, things did not go down the way they had originally been planned to - those two officers were supposed to report in with Bond in cuffs and the body of Mathis. If and when they found Mathis' body in the dumspter, they would also find his empty wallet. It would look like a robbery or mugging gone wrong. There would be no immediate physical evidence to suggest Mathis' death is connected to the two police. Any officer on-scene would have to investigate the two incidents as separate crimes until evidence emerged that they were connected to one another.

    Of course, you could assume that every officer in the La Paz police department is corrupt, but I don't think so. Felix Letier clearly says that General Medrano cannot stage his coup until he pays off the army and the police. He certainly has loyal followers in the police, but the fact that he only has two officers go after Bond, and the way they do it very discreetly, implies his influence is limited.
    I understand what ur saying but I don't see how you can't NOT connect the 2 crimes. Mathis is found dead in a skip, the police are found unconscious virtually right next to the skip. It seems a bit too much of a coincidence for the two to not be connected to eachother. Apparently the officers weren't dead so that would mean sooner or later they would implicate Bond anyway. Either way Bond would be a wanted man. I can understand why he took Mathis's money (to give himself an extra resource) but the reasons why he put him in the skip but left the 2 policemen in the street are a bit unclear IMO.

    Even the police put the 2 together:

    "Renee Mathis has been shot dead in Bolivia. The police claim it was Bond".

    Later on Mi6 say that according to the Bolivians it was a "routine stop" but Bond shot the police when they discovered Mathis's body.

    In fairness we don't know if the police were corrupt and deliberately set Bond up or if that's just the conclusion they jumped to when they arrived at the scene.
  • Posts: 1,894
    I understand what ur saying but I don't see how you can't NOT connect the 2 crimes.
    Because that's how policework works. Just because there are two bodies near one another, it doesn't mean that they're automatically collected. Especially given the scene: you have a wide open street, with two dead police officers in it. You have a skip bin nearby with a third body in it, and that body appears to have been robbed. Physical proximity does not automatically equal a connection.
    It seems a bit too much of a coincidence for the two to not be connected to eachother. Apparently the officers weren't dead so that would mean sooner or later they would implicate Bond anyway. Either way Bond would be a wanted man.
    I can understand why he took Mathis's money (to give himself an extra resource) but the reasons why he put him in the skip but left the 2 policemen in the street are a bit unclear IMO.

    Even the police put the 2 together:

    "Renee Mathis has been shot dead in Bolivia. The police claim it was Bond".

    Later on Mi6 say that according to the Bolivians it was a "routine stop" but Bond shot the police when they discovered Mathis's body.
    But you're missing the point of what I've been saying the entire time: Bond isn't trying to separate Mathis from the two police officers to the extent that it's treated as a separate crime from the moment the police arrive to the time when someone gets prosecuted. He is only trying to slow the investigation down to buy himself some time. Even if it only takes them five minutes to connect Mathis to the two police officers, that's five minutes he would not have otherwise.

    And if you were paying attention in the film, nobody in Quantum knew where Bond was until the man at the airstrip told them, so the ruse worked.
    In fairness we don't know if the police were corrupt and deliberately set Bond up or if that's just the conclusion they jumped to when they arrived at the scene.
    They were corrupt. 1) They were waiting for Bond to leave the party; they take off as soon as he does. 2) They knew Mathis was in the boot the entire time; they had no reason to ask Bond to open it. 3) They opened fire on Mathis as soon as they realised he was still conscious. They had obviously been told by Lieutenant Orso that Mathis' body would be in the back of the car. Why would Orso risk everything by entrusting the task of pulling Bond over to someone who wasn't crooked?

    I think you're just trying to pick holes in the argument that Bond was trying to slow the polcie down for the sake of expressing moral outrage as the way Bond treated Mathis' body. But as I've repeatedly pointed out to you, Bond did what he did for reasons that were totally understandable.
  • Posts: 11,189
    In fairness we don't know if the police were corrupt and deliberately set Bond up or if that's just the conclusion they jumped to when they arrived at the scene.
    They were corrupt. 1) They were waiting for Bond to leave the party; they take off as soon as he does. 2) They knew Mathis was in the boot the entire time; they had no reason to ask Bond to open it. 3) They opened fire on Mathis as soon as they realised he was still conscious. They had obviously been told by Lieutenant Orso that Mathis' body would be in the back of the car. Why would Orso risk everything by entrusting the task of pulling Bond over to someone who wasn't crooked?

    I think you're just trying to pick holes in the argument that Bond was trying to slow the polcie down for the sake of expressing moral outrage as the way Bond treated Mathis' body. But as I've repeatedly pointed out to you, Bond did what he did for reasons that were totally understandable.

    Ok. I didn't mean to pick holes on purpose and in fairness I didn't mean THOSE TWO policemen (I think we can assume they were corrupt) but the others who would presumably come to the crime scene later.

    Still, I'll drop this.

  • Posts: 2,341
    For me it was his seduction of Agent Fields. Craig seemed so wound up and vengeful for the loss of Vesper that hopping in bed with Fields just did not seem like what he would do. Fields was very desirable and I liked her sweet down home look and I would never kick her out of bed but for Craig's Bond in QoS it just seemed "wrong."
  • Posts: 1,894
    Except that Bond is never going out for revenge. QOS will probably go down as having the worst marketing of any film in the series - Bond was looking for answers, but everyone around him assumed he was looking for revenge (I suspect the press is guilty of duming this down to "Bond is looking or revenge"). He may have considered it at one point or another, but he never actively goes after it. And the thing with Fields was based on needs rather than any actual physical attraction.
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