Skyfall would have been a better movie if Pierce was the lead in lieu of Daniel

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  • Posts: 11,189
    I've seen Dalton in Hawks and thought he was pretty good in it playing a flamboyant, eccentric character.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Compare him to someone like Dench for instance who also had a very distinguished theatre background and has transferred to film very successfully. Her performances on film seem a bit more subtle and less "in your face".
    I've really grown to appreciate and miss Dench since she exited the role. I was a critic of hers in the past (most notably because of her intro dressing down of Bond in GE, which I found unwelcome & her field appearance in TWINE. I accept that this clouded my views on her). I now realize that she really helped elevate both Craig's & Brosnan's performance.

    I'd take a Dench/Craig dialogue scene over a Harris/Fiennes/Whishaw/Craig scene any day of the week and twice on Sunday. There was 'dramatic heft' in those encounters.

    One point I agree on is a fine actor helps other actors elevate their performance. The best actor Dalton had was Robert Davi. They learned to only cast good actors around Craig to elevate him, and that included the Bond girls. Denise Richards opposite Brosnan is asking for trouble.
    I agree. That opening scene when they meet at the Kazakhstan ICBM facility is nearly unwatchable for me. Horrendous overacting by both.

    Davi did bring out the best in Dalton, it's true.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Judi was such a long part of the franchise that I think subconsciously some of the SP disappointment many felt was down in part to her absence as well. I can't imagine watching a Bond film for the first time and seeing Bernard Lee wasn't M anymore. These kinds of changes have a big, unconscious impact on us, and Lee didn't get a tenth the send-off Judi did, which may be why it's especially powerful and sad to see her gone. I think that essence that Judi always gave, of that nagging, hard bitch who always set Bond in his ways, will be missed. SF was a beautiful way for her to go out for her M, however. Without any resources on hand and basically fired from service, she still helped to stop Silva as her last selfless act, and her last speech with Bond before her death was beautiful.

    I still can't help but think how she could have played a part in SP, however, beyond that video. It's hard not to, as she was such a familiar face in the franchise after twenty years of service in the role. To just have her gone hurts, and no matter how much I can enjoy SP there is that special something missing that Judi always provided.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Compare him to someone like Dench for instance who also had a very distinguished theatre background and has transferred to film very successfully. Her performances on film seem a bit more subtle and less "in your face".
    I've really grown to appreciate and miss Dench since she exited the role. I was a critic of hers in the past (most notably because of her intro dressing down of Bond in GE, which I found unwelcome & her field appearance in TWINE. I accept that this clouded my views on her). I now realize that she really helped elevate both Craig's & Brosnan's performance.

    I'd take a Dench/Craig dialogue scene over a Harris/Fiennes/Whishaw/Craig scene any day of the week and twice on Sunday. There was 'dramatic heft' in those encounters.

    One point I agree on is a fine actor helps other actors elevate their performance. The best actor Dalton had was Robert Davi. They learned to only cast good actors around Craig to elevate him, and that included the Bond girls. Denise Richards opposite Brosnan is asking for trouble.
    I agree. That opening scene when they meet at the Kazakhstan ICBM facility is nearly unwatchable for me. Horrendous overacting by both.

    Davi did bring out the best in Dalton, it's true.

    This is why I give Dalton such Kudos. He elevated as best he could, when it was obvious that some actors were a weight pulling him down with them. If only Dalton was Bond in 2006-same age as he was in 1986- and history would be different.

    But, I maintain he was a first-class choice for the role. Even Kevin McClory thought Dalton got a raw deal. Craig was damn fortunate that they cast all roles with serious consideration of him.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I do (still) think though that Dalton fits better on television, at least as a lead.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dalton would've been a perfect Bond actor for a Fleming period piece TV series. One day I hope we get to see this project realized with the right actor to rest the drama on the shoulders of to give us true adaptations of the novels.

    It would've been a real treat to see Dalton's take on Bond develop in a series from CR to TMWTGG without the forced nature of the one-liners and bad humor that EON shoved on him in the films. Dammit.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    For a long time 'Casino Royale done straight, with Timothy Dalton in the lead' was top of my fantasy Bond wishlist.

    I got half of my wish eventually, at least!
  • Posts: 11,189
    Dalton would've been a perfect Bond actor for a Fleming period piece TV series. One day I hope we get to see this project realized with the right actor to rest the drama on the shoulders of to give us true adaptations of the novels.

    It would've been a real treat to see Dalton's take on Bond develop in a series from CR to TMWTGG without the forced nature of the one-liners and bad humor that EON shoved on him in the films. Dammit.

    I agree, he would have been good in something like that.
  • Posts: 19,339
    There is no reason why their couldn't be a TV series,based maybe on spying in WWII or something,with Dalton in the lead role as the British spy.

    He just wouldn't be Bond,but he would be excellent casting.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I do think Dalton has something of a TV drama vibe about him that does sometimes come through in Bond. Not that that's a bad thing but it might explain the "lack of charisma" claim.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Dalton would've been a perfect Bond actor for a Fleming period piece TV series. One day I hope we get to see this project realized with the right actor to rest the drama on the shoulders of to give us true adaptations of the novels.

    It would've been a real treat to see Dalton's take on Bond develop in a series from CR to TMWTGG without the forced nature of the one-liners and bad humor that EON shoved on him in the films. Dammit.

    That would interest me greatly. Ian Fleming is fascinating and no ordinary spy writer. I am attempting to go through the novels again. I love the detail and any serious fan should attempt to go to the source, as there is so much the movies leave out. It is the thought process Bond goes through and internal dialogue that is hard to convey on film.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I've read most of the books but no more than a couple of times each. They are certainly very descriptive yet also very accessible. I confess that i'm normally a bit of a slow reader but with these I went through them very quickly.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've read most of the books but no more than a couple of times each. They are certainly very descriptive yet also very accessible. I confess that i'm normally a bit of a slow reader but with these I went through them very quickly.

    I too am a slow reader. I over-analyse and imagine, which slows me down. As for Dalton's charisma, he underplays that in Bond. I think he followed more the books than the movies as far as Bond is concerned. He is capable of doing that and when you get a chance to see Framed, he is more akin to the stereotypical Bond of the films. He exhibits far more arrogance.

    One thing he cannot be accused of, is copying other actors templates a la Brosnan. He explained that well in the Everything Or Nothing documentary.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I think one thing I've realised is that I like the slightly arrogant Bond.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Here's probably my favorite video of Dalton talking Bond, where he muses on the movies and Fleming in such an eloquent fashion that I haven't seen replicated elsewhere outside of maybe Daniel's comments (it helps that they've both read the books too):

  • Posts: 11,189
    I've seen that interview before. Great one.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    Here's probably my favorite video of Dalton talking Bond, where he muses on the movies and Fleming in such an eloquent fashion that I haven't seen replicated elsewhere outside of maybe Daniel's comments (it helps that they've both read the books too):


    I loved how he knew his facts and enthusiasm. He got a raw deal from the media to make Brosnan an easier sell to the public. Broccoli mentioned in his book, that Dalton captured new shadings of the character of Bond.

    As much as I love Roger Moore, his tenure is responsible for making the public see Bond as a comic-relief character. That made Dalton's boulder all the harder to push up the mountain. Shame Dalton did not follow after Connery, although he did say that Connery was "Too good!!!".

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I do believe Dalton was in the shuffle to be cast in OHMSS, but he was so young (early 20s, I think) that he turned down the advances of EON.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    I do believe Dalton was in the shuffle to be cast in OHMSS, but he was so young (early 20s, I think) that he turned down the advances of EON.

    Indeed sir! And he felt that taking over from Connery was madness. This is another side of him that I love. That is sincere humbleness and respect for the franchise. And one of the greatest compliments to Connery ever.

    Incidentally, have you seen the 1961 film The Frightened City with Sean Connery? It puts to death the myth that he was some simpleton who had never worn a suit until the Bond producers trained him. An absolute gem of a film and terrific indication of the future Bond. Connery merits his high reputation and one of the finest British actors ever!

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Sean's amazing talents are often credited to others. It was all Young who made him Bond, for instance. People miss the fact that you can dress any man up in a suit like Bond wears in Dr. No, but it takes a very special actor to be able to move like an animal in the suit, and to give a performance that is rich in its subtlety as Sean provided.

    Sean's performances in Dr. No and From Russia with Love alone are some of the greatest performances in cinema, period. The way he transmits so much about Bond to us just with how he moves in a room or uses his eyes to let us into his head is masterful. The little character moments he'd give, like grabbing Ms. Taro by the hair and towel to mask his anger at her deceit as lustful foreplay, or the way he talked to Dr. No at dinner, feigning cordiality while fighting the urge to unleash himself on the man, are immaculate moments that reverberate with meaning and iconography. He and Shaw made the last act of From Russia with Love not only the best section of a Bond film ever, but one of the greatest cinematic moments of all time as they play a long chess game with each other that finishes with their explosive fight.

    To this day no other actor has been able to hit the range Sean did, just as nobody has worn a suit like him, seduced a woman as he effortlessly could, or be as drop dead manly, intellectual in strategy, alluring, magnetic or formidable. If I had to have one Bond to protect me, he'd be my number 1 choice by a long, long way. When it came to his Bond you knew he'd always find a way out of it somehow, simply because he was that good.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've seen that interview before. Great one.

    Like it! What makes the Bond franchise great is that our tastes change with the rhythm of life. And Dalton always put the franchise first and never overstayed his welcome. He bowed out with dignity!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've seen that interview before. Great one.

    Like it! What makes the Bond franchise great is that our tastes change with the rhythm of life. And Dalton always put the franchise first and never overstayed his welcome. He bowed out with dignity!
    That's very true and he should be commended for that.

    I do think there's a fine line to walk for a Bond actor between sticking to the book template and embracing the more flamboyant filmic iteration.

    I have always felt that Dalton was too much to one side of the fence, and Brosnan conversely too much to the other side. I only believe Connery, early Moore & early Craig have nailed it personally. Laz I don't rate because the film was so unique.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've seen that interview before. Great one.

    Like it! What makes the Bond franchise great is that our tastes change with the rhythm of life. And Dalton always put the franchise first and never overstayed his welcome. He bowed out with dignity!
    That's very true and he should be commended for that.

    I do think there's a fine line to walk for a Bond actor between sticking to the book template and embracing the more flamboyant filmic iteration.

    I have always felt that Dalton was too much to one side of the fence, and Brosnan conversely too much to the other side. I only believe Connery, early Moore & early Craig have nailed it personally. Laz I don't rate because the film was so unique.

    Broccoli in his book made it clear Dalton wanted to be respected for his desire to be closer to the book Bond. I think the third planned film was where we would have seen some going back to the flirting and classic Bond. Dalton said that in some 1989 Bond fan magazine.

    However, risk is where it is at. Some you win and some you lose, but, the series learned from it. The character of Bond can be enjoyed from different perspectives.

    I rewatched TLD after the Mark Gattis Bond discussion and I had some new eyes. I love how Gattis pointed out some of Dalton's unique contributions.

    I promise you this. Your taste will change over the years. Parts of Bond I hated in the past, I grew to love!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've seen that interview before. Great one.

    Like it! What makes the Bond franchise great is that our tastes change with the rhythm of life. And Dalton always put the franchise first and never overstayed his welcome. He bowed out with dignity!
    That's very true and he should be commended for that.

    I do think there's a fine line to walk for a Bond actor between sticking to the book template and embracing the more flamboyant filmic iteration.

    I have always felt that Dalton was too much to one side of the fence, and Brosnan conversely too much to the other side. I only believe Connery, early Moore & early Craig have nailed it personally. Laz I don't rate because the film was so unique.

    Broccoli in his book made it clear Dalton wanted to be respected for his desire to be closer to the book Bond. I think the third planned film was where we would have seen some going back to the flirting and classic Bond. Dalton said that in some 1989 Bond fan magazine.

    However, risk is where it is at. Some you win and some you lose, but, the series learned from it. The character of Bond can be enjoyed from different perspectives.

    I rewatched TLD after the Mark Gattis Bond discussion and I had some new eyes. I love how Gattis pointed out some of Dalton's unique contributions.

    I promise you this. Your taste will change over the years. Parts of Bond I hated in the past, I grew to love!
    It's true that most of the actors (certainly Connery and Moore) started to get a little more loose with the character in their third. Dalton sadly didn't get that chance, and I'm forever curious to know how he might have handled it.

    I agree with you on tastes changing as well. I couldn't stand LTK as a kid, but love it now, despite some of the awful acting by the supporting cast!
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've seen that interview before. Great one.

    Like it! What makes the Bond franchise great is that our tastes change with the rhythm of life. And Dalton always put the franchise first and never overstayed his welcome. He bowed out with dignity!
    That's very true and he should be commended for that.

    I do think there's a fine line to walk for a Bond actor between sticking to the book template and embracing the more flamboyant filmic iteration.

    I have always felt that Dalton was too much to one side of the fence, and Brosnan conversely too much to the other side. I only believe Connery, early Moore & early Craig have nailed it personally. Laz I don't rate because the film was so unique.

    Broccoli in his book made it clear Dalton wanted to be respected for his desire to be closer to the book Bond. I think the third planned film was where we would have seen some going back to the flirting and classic Bond. Dalton said that in some 1989 Bond fan magazine.

    However, risk is where it is at. Some you win and some you lose, but, the series learned from it. The character of Bond can be enjoyed from different perspectives.

    I rewatched TLD after the Mark Gattis Bond discussion and I had some new eyes. I love how Gattis pointed out some of Dalton's unique contributions.

    I promise you this. Your taste will change over the years. Parts of Bond I hated in the past, I grew to love!
    It's true that most of the actors (certainly Connery and Moore) started to get a little more loose with the character in their third. Dalton sadly didn't get that chance, and I'm forever curious to know how he might have handled it.

    I agree with you on tastes changing as well. I couldn't stand LTK as a kid, but love it now, despite some of the awful acting by the supporting cast!

    It is that curiosity as you say that compels me more to Dalton. The potential was there to further develop in the role.

    I will say this, I am not holding my breath for the future of Bond. We live in an overly-sensitive culture where I suspect that eventually they will remove some scenes from the Connery films, like in DAF where he strangles the woman with a bra. A certain brigade I am sure has the knives out for cutting that!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've seen that interview before. Great one.

    Like it! What makes the Bond franchise great is that our tastes change with the rhythm of life. And Dalton always put the franchise first and never overstayed his welcome. He bowed out with dignity!
    That's very true and he should be commended for that.

    I do think there's a fine line to walk for a Bond actor between sticking to the book template and embracing the more flamboyant filmic iteration.

    I have always felt that Dalton was too much to one side of the fence, and Brosnan conversely too much to the other side. I only believe Connery, early Moore & early Craig have nailed it personally. Laz I don't rate because the film was so unique.

    Broccoli in his book made it clear Dalton wanted to be respected for his desire to be closer to the book Bond. I think the third planned film was where we would have seen some going back to the flirting and classic Bond. Dalton said that in some 1989 Bond fan magazine.

    However, risk is where it is at. Some you win and some you lose, but, the series learned from it. The character of Bond can be enjoyed from different perspectives.

    I rewatched TLD after the Mark Gattis Bond discussion and I had some new eyes. I love how Gattis pointed out some of Dalton's unique contributions.

    I promise you this. Your taste will change over the years. Parts of Bond I hated in the past, I grew to love!
    It's true that most of the actors (certainly Connery and Moore) started to get a little more loose with the character in their third. Dalton sadly didn't get that chance, and I'm forever curious to know how he might have handled it.

    I agree with you on tastes changing as well. I couldn't stand LTK as a kid, but love it now, despite some of the awful acting by the supporting cast!

    It is that curiosity as you say that compels me more to Dalton. The potential was there to further develop in the role.

    I will say this, I am not holding my breath for the future of Bond. We live in an overly-sensitive culture where I suspect that eventually they will remove some scenes from the Connery films, like in DAF where he strangles the woman with a bra. A certain brigade I am sure has the knives out for cutting that!
    Then they must be stopped at all costs!

    I was just pondering the other day when watching QoS how EON could 'pull a Lucas' and edit the ending of the film so that Greene says 'Spectre' in the desert rather than 'Quantum'. They could even move his mouth in the right way given the digital technology we have now. Then I thought 'no'. Don't mess with the initial concept. Leave it as it is, warts and all.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    but love it now, despite some of the awful acting by the supporting cast!
    That drags the film down a bit for me...the very hit-and-miss cast.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Thankfully we've been blessed with some of the greatest producers in the industry who would go to any lengths to halt any alterations of the Bond films.

    For as popular as Star Wars is, at least we as fans don't have to worry about our favorite franchise from being tarnished by their own creators. That's a blessing that seriously shouldn't be taken for granted, especially in the age we're in where filmmaking has lost a lot of its artistry and given way to nasty trends and rehashes.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    Food for thought as they say. Just my feeling with the kind of conversation I am hearing more and more as I study the media. I would hold on to those old films. I used to give mine away with the advent of a new edition. Now I treasure them. We will never see a true return to the days of Connery in this culture, whilst in the days of Connery, people could take a joke better!

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    SF shows perfectly how far removed we are from the days of Sean's Bond. Back in the Cold War human agents were valued because they were all we had, but now they're getting shuffled out of service with robots in their places. Back then enemies were known with ease and could be pointed to in a file or on a map, but now the worst terrorist can be a kid with a keyboard in a random, nameless location. And let's not even get started on the heavy surveillance...

    Thankfully, no matter how much the times change Bond always stays the same. To borrow a phrase from Sherlock Holmes, he's the one fixed point in a changing age. No matter what villains rise to ruin us Bond will always be there as the maverick willing to cut through red tape and misbehave to make the decisions he knows need to be made, no matter what M or anyone else says.
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