The SPECTRE vs Skyfall battle! (simple question)

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  • edited December 2015 Posts: 3,274
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    You think the Shanghai sequence one of the best ever?

    Fair enough, but I really don't see it. I actually never got all the excitement about the SF visuals. I know Deakins is highly talented etc. but to me SF always felt quite studio bound and visually pedestrian. Plenty of other Bond films look better.

    To me it's a combination of things in that scene. First when bond's in the car checking out his new gun, and he sees the guy shoot the security guard, you can almost see him switch into "it's on like donkey kong" mode. Then him going through the building and that amazing score that starts when he jumps onto the bottom of the elevator.

    Then him going through the dark building with that amazing "Jellyfish" score with only the colorful light from the nearby buildings for anyone to see anything.

    The cinematography there is just stunning to me, followed by that long shot fight.

    The sound when the guy removes the circle of glass from the window was awesome too and so realistic.
    I don't know much, but that scene, exactly as you outlined it, blew me away. Everything about it is near balletic perfection, including the fight. Loved the score when he hits the elevator bottom too. For me, the whole thing started when we actually got to Shanghai and he's in the pool. From there to the end is just killer.....including the staredown with Severine and her score kicking in.

    Shanghai, the Silva intro, the Silva interrogation, the Q intro, The Severine Casino sequence & and the pretitles made SF for me. Exceptional work imho.

    Absolutely. Bond footage has never looked better.
    Really? SF doesn't come close to looking as good as Lewis Gilbert's Bond movies, IMHO!
    Like with GE it felt claustrophobic, maybe because of its many, many interior shots.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Zekidk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    You think the Shanghai sequence one of the best ever?

    Fair enough, but I really don't see it. I actually never got all the excitement about the SF visuals. I know Deakins is highly talented etc. but to me SF always felt quite studio bound and visually pedestrian. Plenty of other Bond films look better.

    To me it's a combination of things in that scene. First when bond's in the car checking out his new gun, and he sees the guy shoot the security guard, you can almost see him switch into "it's on like donkey kong" mode. Then him going through the building and that amazing score that starts when he jumps onto the bottom of the elevator.

    Then him going through the dark building with that amazing "Jellyfish" score with only the colorful light from the nearby buildings for anyone to see anything.

    The cinematography there is just stunning to me, followed by that long shot fight.

    The sound when the guy removes the circle of glass from the window was awesome too and so realistic.
    I don't know much, but that scene, exactly as you outlined it, blew me away. Everything about it is near balletic perfection, including the fight. Loved the score when he hits the elevator bottom too. For me, the whole thing started when we actually got to Shanghai and he's in the pool. From there to the end is just killer.....including the staredown with Severine and her score kicking in.

    Shanghai, the Silva intro, the Silva interrogation, the Q intro, The Severine Casino sequence & and the pretitles made SF for me. Exceptional work imho.

    Absolutely. Bond footage has never looked better.
    Really? SF doesn't come close to looking as good as Lewis Gilbert's Bond movies, IMHO!
    Like with GE it felt claustrophobic, maybe because of its many, many interior shots.

    Totally agree. The fuss over SF is all media hype.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Not usually a fan of fancy colour 'washes' on movies (Fury Road comes to mind most recently) but it was rather acceptable to me in SP.
  • Posts: 1,098
    Why did Mendes choose film rather than digital for SP?
    Is there something in using film, that cannot be achieved by filming in digital?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Why did Mendes choose film rather than digital for SP?
    Is there something in using film, that cannot be achieved by filming in digital?
    Yeah, if they want to bump SF up to 4k at some point it won't be easy (heh heh!), but film will easily allow for that. Plus, to ME, SF looks a bit 'digital' right now.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I generally prefer film. It is the filter that wasn't working for me.
    Yeah, I don't mind filters in particular shots at all, but a whole movie? Problematic at best.
  • Posts: 1,098
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Why did Mendes choose film rather than digital for SP?
    Is there something in using film, that cannot be achieved by filming in digital?
    Yeah, if they want to bump SF up to 4k at some point it won't be easy (heh heh!), but film will easily allow for that. Plus, to ME, SF looks a bit 'digital' right now.

    Not being a film director, please could you tell me what this means? Thanks :)
  • Getafix wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    You think the Shanghai sequence one of the best ever?

    Fair enough, but I really don't see it. I actually never got all the excitement about the SF visuals. I know Deakins is highly talented etc. but to me SF always felt quite studio bound and visually pedestrian. Plenty of other Bond films look better.

    To me it's a combination of things in that scene. First when bond's in the car checking out his new gun, and he sees the guy shoot the security guard, you can almost see him switch into "it's on like donkey kong" mode. Then him going through the building and that amazing score that starts when he jumps onto the bottom of the elevator.

    Then him going through the dark building with that amazing "Jellyfish" score with only the colorful light from the nearby buildings for anyone to see anything.

    The cinematography there is just stunning to me, followed by that long shot fight.

    The sound when the guy removes the circle of glass from the window was awesome too and so realistic.
    I don't know much, but that scene, exactly as you outlined it, blew me away. Everything about it is near balletic perfection, including the fight. Loved the score when he hits the elevator bottom too. For me, the whole thing started when we actually got to Shanghai and he's in the pool. From there to the end is just killer.....including the staredown with Severine and her score kicking in.

    Shanghai, the Silva intro, the Silva interrogation, the Q intro, The Severine Casino sequence & and the pretitles made SF for me. Exceptional work imho.

    Absolutely. Bond footage has never looked better.
    Really? SF doesn't come close to looking as good as Lewis Gilbert's Bond movies, IMHO!
    Like with GE it felt claustrophobic, maybe because of its many, many interior shots.

    Totally agree. The fuss over SF is all media hype.

    Nope. But the fashionable slagging of SF on this board is little more than silly iconoclasm and denial of the patently obvious.

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,043
    SP has too many issues for me, it feels like something that could have been amazing and up there but it's flaws do it no favours.

    I think the way some are really down on SF I'm like that with SP, Skyfall was a so much more satisfying experience, it might seem media hype to some but I maintain this film will date better and be more highly regarded in and out of the fanbase than SPECTRE in years to come, SP will actually be instrumental in that as well.

    SPECTRE isn't going to age well and overtime people will realise the missed opportunity of it. SF wasn't carrying such a big load with it's content as SP was, the first time in this era that really dug back into Bond mythology and went for the big one and to me it failed and the return of Bond's most famous adversary was not the memorable and hairs on the back of the neck moment it should have been.

    The brother element is getting cut allot of slack here by those that love the elements that were bought back in, it wasn't a mission entry it was another personal journey, it didn't need to be and it jars with the desire to make it also full of depth. Which is fine but the idea they cooked up makes SF plotting and big moment seem a minor crime compared to the ball they dropped here.

    The ham fisted way they tied all the entries together, I had no problem with them doing this but it was done like an afterthought.

    While I marginally prefer it to QOS that film doesn't infuriate me like SP does, I think I'll come to terms with it like I did Quantum but like that film it will still slightly niggle although Solace doesn't commit the crimes that Bond 24 has in my view.

    Now I know how those people felt when they walked out of Skyfall let down and disappointed.

    I've actually dropped it now to 3 1/2 out of 5.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    edited December 2015 Posts: 871
    Shardlake wrote: »
    The brother element is getting cut allot of slack here by those that love the elements that were bought back in, it wasn't a mission entry it was another personal journey, it didn't need to be and it jars with the desire to make it also full of depth. Which is fine but the idea they cooked up makes SF plotting and big moment seem a minor crime compared to the ball they dropped here.

    Agreed. I sound boring to myself repeating this, but placing a villain in Bond's childhood makes this movie worse than it actually is. It is something that doesn't belong in a Bond film, IMO. Before SPECTRE, I would have laughed at the idea that any villain, much less Blofeld, is someone who knew Bond in his youth. Sounds like a very bad fan fiction.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Sounds like a very bad fan fiction.
    Yes, but executed with aplomb.
    B-)
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Sounds like a very bad fan fiction.
    Yes, but executed with aplomb.
    B-)

    I'm sorry, but that's impossible. [-X
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Sounds like a very bad fan fiction.
    Yes, but executed with aplomb.
    B-)

    I'm sorry, but that's impossible. [-X
    A valid opinion. I will ignore it as a major problem as I enjoy the bulk of the film, myself.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Sounds like a very bad fan fiction.
    Yes, but executed with aplomb.
    B-)

    I'm sorry, but that's impossible. [-X
    A valid opinion. I will ignore it as a major problem as I enjoy the bulk of the film, myself.

    Hey, I also enjoy the bulk of it. I like the classic Bond elements it brings, and I particularly like the anti-surveillance stance the film takes.

    There are some other things I don't like (somewhat weak script, colour filters) but I can live with them. On the other hand, this Bond-and-Blofeld-know-each-other stuff sticks out like a sore thumb in a very bad way.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited December 2015 Posts: 1,731
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Why did Mendes choose film rather than digital for SP?
    Is there something in using film, that cannot be achieved by filming in digital?

    Yes - digital tends to give a 'colder', more sober image. Film generally gives a more subtle, warmer and classically cinematic look. It is also a lot more expensive to shoot on film and reproduction is costlier & more laborious.

    Film has what's called a broader exposure latitude than digital. Areas with more light per unit area are rendered better on film than on a digital format.
    With digital, a corner of the frame with little to no light could go completely black, whereas on film this area would still show a certain amount of detail - it is more nuanced.

    For some films the digital 'coldness' enhances the story. But for others it can actually detract from it. Michael Mann's 'Public Enemies' (2009) is an example of a film that probably should have been shot on film rather than digital...

    And SF isn't done any favours by it either, imo.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I was under the impression that Deakins chose digital for SF due to all the night photography. I believe (not sure because this is not my area..) that it gives a clearer image, with much more contrast, during dark lighting shoots.

    SF certainly is extremely clear during Shanghai & the Scotland finale, and I always felt that was on account of his use of digital. It is also definitely colder, but suited the mood of that film, and so I think this was an intentional creative decision on their part. I think it's also cheaper, which may have played into their decision as well.

    One day, hopefully, someone will explain the creative decision to use obvious colour filters on SP. I believe it is to hide CGI, but hopefully it is explained eventually.
  • Posts: 2,341
    Right now without a second viewing of SP I rank the Craig films:
    1. CR
    2. SF
    3.SP
    4. QoS
    So I guess I rank SF over SP
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    Right now without a second viewing of SP I rank the Craig films:
    1. CR
    2. SF
    3.SP
    4. QoS
    So I guess I rank SF over SP

    Let us know how you feel about SP after a second viewing, @OHMSS69, if you do indeed get one. It made all the difference for me, so I'm interested in seeing if another watch sways you in much the same way I was.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Seeing that Logan's original draft thread @Pierce2Daniel has just posted makes me even more think that what we got is even more of disappointment.

    The Oberhauser nonsense was P&W after all it seems, while the Warlord stuff is questionable no I don't think Oberhauser is any better. The more I hear the more SPECTRE becomes even more of a disappointing experience.

    P&W & Mendes need to stay far away from Bond, I love Skyfall so you expect me to embrace more of both of them but seriously they well truly fecked this film up.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seeing that Logan's original draft thread @Pierce2Daniel has just posted makes me even more think that what we got is even more of disappointment.

    The Oberhauser nonsense was P&W after all it seems, while the Warlord stuff is questionable no I don't think Oberhauser is any better. The more I hear the more SPECTRE becomes even more of a disappointing experience.

    P&W & Mendes need to stay far away from Bond, I love Skyfall so you expect me to embrace more of both of them but seriously they well truly fecked this film up.

    @Shardlake, I've been screaming to get rid of P&W since TWINE! No matter where you stand on SP or SF; TWINE has one of the most disappointing scripts in the history of the series for me.

    As far as SP is concerned, I can tell you're upset about certain things. Personally, I like SP a whole lot more than SF but neither of both can top CR, period. The last true peak for me in the Bond series? 2006 so far...
  • Posts: 1,098
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seeing that Logan's original draft thread @Pierce2Daniel has just posted makes me even more think that what we got is even more of disappointment.

    The Oberhauser nonsense was P&W after all it seems, while the Warlord stuff is questionable no I don't think Oberhauser is any better. The more I hear the more SPECTRE becomes even more of a disappointing experience.

    P&W & Mendes need to stay far away from Bond, I love Skyfall so you expect me to embrace more of both of them but seriously they well truly fecked this film up.

    @Shardlake, I've been screaming to get rid of P&W since TWINE! No matter where you stand on SP or SF; TWINE has one of the most disappointing scripts in the history of the series for me.

    As far as SP is concerned, I can tell you're upset about certain things. Personally, I like SP a whole lot more than SF but neither of both can top CR, period. The last true peak for me in the Bond series? 2006 so far...

    I agree, P&W should be replaced with new writers, fresh ideas are needed for Bond.

    I liked SF, but CR was really a great Bond film. Often when i've left cinemas after watching the latest Bond films, i hear other people say to their family or friends, "oh the film was ok, but i much preferred CR".
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seeing that Logan's original draft thread @Pierce2Daniel has just posted makes me even more think that what we got is even more of disappointment.

    The Oberhauser nonsense was P&W after all it seems, while the Warlord stuff is questionable no I don't think Oberhauser is any better. The more I hear the more SPECTRE becomes even more of a disappointing experience.

    P&W & Mendes need to stay far away from Bond, I love Skyfall so you expect me to embrace more of both of them but seriously they well truly fecked this film up.

    @Shardlake, I've been screaming to get rid of P&W since TWINE! No matter where you stand on SP or SF; TWINE has one of the most disappointing scripts in the history of the series for me.

    As far as SP is concerned, I can tell you're upset about certain things. Personally, I like SP a whole lot more than SF but neither of both can top CR, period. The last true peak for me in the Bond series? 2006 so far...

    Definitely. Before that, it was 1987, IMO. I'm afraid we'll have to wait a long time till the next one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    @Superintendent

    Peaks for me:

    2006
    1995
    1987
    1963
    1962

    I'm not saying the rest isn't good or even great but these are the peaks for me.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Superintendent

    Peaks for me:

    2006
    1995
    1987
    1963
    1962

    I'm not saying the rest isn't good or even great but these are the peaks for me.

    GoldenEye was okay, but I'm not a huge fan. The entire 1960s were terrific, and 1963 is the pinnacle.

  • Posts: 1,098
    What about 1969, would that be classified as a peak?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mepal1 wrote: »
    What about 1969, would that be classified as a peak?
    Of course it was.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    mepal1 wrote: »
    What about 1969, would that be classified as a peak?

    IMO, all of the films in the 60s are peaks, sans YOLT. Ironically, it was my favourite Bond film when I was a kid.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    mepal1 wrote: »
    What about 1969, would that be classified as a peak?

    IMO, all of the films in the 60s are peaks, sans YOLT. Ironically, it was my favourite Bond film when I was a kid.
    I tend to agree with this. There's little to fault in the 60's Bond films imho, including the earlier half of YOLT.
  • mepal1 wrote: »
    What about 1969, would that be classified as a peak?

    I would classify it as a piz.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    I must stand corrected!!!

    2006
    1995
    1987
    1969
    1963
    1962

    Yes, of course. I love OHMSS. My mind was elsewhere. ;-)
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