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The SPECTRE vs Skyfall battle! (simple question)

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Well, apparently the film plants the seed that the watch can explode early on (still haven't found it), so some could argue that it doesn't come completely out of nowhere in the torture scene. I still would've liked another escape route, though it was a good set up for Blofeld's scar. I kind of agree that it's near deus ex machina territory, because even after two watches (haha, see what I did there?) I still don't know how I'm supposed to be aware that it can go boom boom.

    As for the ending, I'm trying very hard to find a deus ex machina, but I can't. I don't think there's any moment where anything implausible happens that makes Bond get out of it in the last second in an improbable fashion; nothing feels convenient about the ending for me. Blofeld gives him mere minutes, he goes mad trying to find Madeleine and eventually finds her, tactically using the net to save them both as the time winds down (I thought that was clever, personally). The boat isn't a deus ex machina in my mind either, as we saw it earlier and its location at the Thames entrance to the building is where we'd expect it to be. It all feels plausible, or at least as plausible as a situation can be where you're escaping a bomb that's set to implode your old place of employment. Of course, haven't we all been there once or twice?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    I'm in the minority it seems but Spectre's finale is among my favourites of the series.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I'm not against it either, more 50/50. I love the MI6 in ruins, Bond jumping for the net and his final talk with Blofeld and the walk off with Madeleine. But there are parts that feel underwhelming. Compared to other Bond finales, it is unmistakably stripped down. I also feel that it could have been made much better with more nuanced direction. When I think of true Bond finales that get your pulse going, YOLT, TSWLM and GE come to mind. Of course, SP didn't have to mimic these, but the high action and tension is sometimes missing. It's very much its own animal.

    I don't know why, but I've never seen a satisfying finale in London. The Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation finale felt the same way as SP this year for me: 50/50; okay, but not as great as what came before.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    The fact that it's stripped down is the only problem for me. And I'm inclined to believe that the Sony budget cuts are to blame.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    jake24 wrote: »
    The fact that it's stripped down is the only problem for me. And I'm inclined to believe that the Sony budget cuts are to blame.

    We know from some leaks that the third act was the one that was in constant flux during the scripting process. The first two acts were very much in place for a long while, and the lead up to the finale and the finale itself were the sections that were really difficult to settle down, for whatever reason. That certainly didn't help.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Skyfall was better, SP was more or less an empty movie with too many major scenes lacking human presence. If that was Mendes message somebody kick him in the bollocks for me. The nutter should not be allowed near to any future installment.
  • augie7107augie7107 Boston
    Posts: 108
    1. Spectre
    2. Skyfall

    Liked them both, but I like the references to the older films in Spectre since I'm an old man.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    Well, apparently the film plants the seed that the watch can explode early on (still haven't found it),

    Q says that the watch has a very loud alarm
  • FormulaMasaFormulaMasa Finland
    Posts: 6
    1.Skyfall (easily)
    2.Spectre
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    vzok wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    Well, apparently the film plants the seed that the watch can explode early on (still haven't found it),

    Q says that the watch has a very loud alarm
    That's what I've heard elsewhere, but I honestly don't see how that tells Bond "this thing goes boom," or how he could go about arming it in the first place.

    What I thought in that scene was that Q was subtly telling Bond that the Aston had a loud alarm if he was thinking of stealing it, not that the watch could explode.

    I don't see how that was so obvious to some people right from the start. It's just not a well constructed scene.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »

    I don't see how that was so obvious to some people right from the start. It's just not a well constructed scene.
    I didn't get it until Bond was in the chair. Then I was like Oh, a LOUD alarm!!!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »

    I don't see how that was so obvious to some people right from the start. It's just not a well constructed scene.
    I didn't get it until Bond was in the chair. Then I was like Oh, a LOUD alarm!!!

    Honestly, if I was in that situation and Q told me the same thing, I'd look at him and say, "hmm, I'll have to try that out later." Only if he gave me a wide eyed look would I know that the actual alarm wasn't what he was referring to.

    And of course the dialogue Bond and Q share just moments before had Q saying that all it did was tell time, which in my mind made me think he was actually being truthful. People have acted like it's some clear, neon-flashing indicator but when the scene downplays this so-called reveal of the watch bomb with comments about how it does nothing beyond what any normal wristwatch does, I quite understandably get confused. I like my interpretation of the scene much better, where Q is subtly helping Bond steal the Aston and go rogue.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Wouldn't be the first time Bond went into the field without things being specified. ;)
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Put simply:

    - Spectre

    ...............

    ..............

    ..............

    ..............

    - Skyfail


    If I want a childhood-trauma ensemble piece I'll watch a Tim Burton film, thank you very much.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have no problem with that or the watch or not receiving instructions. I think that bit works fine in SPECTRE as is. I'm just surprised that some people are fixating on one aspect (the vague implication from Q that the watch can explode which I and others didn't find vague at all), but not the other (the minute setting, etc.).

    So what is the thing with the minute setting?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    Wouldn't be the first time Bond went into the field without things being specified. ;)
    Love that scene, love that car, love that Bond, love that Q and love that Bond girl. Classic all round.

    RE: the watch - it was clear to me that the mention of the alarm suggested the watch had an explosive in it. Bond sarcastically asks if it does anything. Q says it tells the time in response to his sarcasm, but then fills him in on the alarm to reassure him that it's more than just a timepiece, and Bond knowingly smiles - "the alarm is rather loud if you know what i mean" is what gives it away to me that it's not actually an alarm, but rather, something more potent. English subtlety. That's all that is required here. Bond is Bond. He gets it and he doesn't need instructions.

    However, as I said elsewhere, knowing this fact took all the tension out of the torture scene, despite Bond's screams of pain, because they flashed the Omega early in that scene and I was just waiting for him to find a way to arm it, which Madeline conveniently gave him when she happened to walk up to him to declare her love...rather surprisingly at the time given they'd just met. Just give him a Rolex next time and let's be done with this product placement nonsense please - I don't care how much Omega is paying.
  • CowleyCowley
    Posts: 486
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Which is partially why I never liked the gadgets in the films (too predictable a save, I don't like the whole; here's the gadget , here's what it does, here's where the perfect situation arises for said gadget, use accordingly). Add to that; they're silly, usually awkward and very non-Fleming (in the original novels Bonds only gadgets were a blade in his shoe heel and the knives in his brief case).

    That's the great appeal of the Fleming novels to me. Bond all on his own (without a cavalry) and overcoming the odds through brute strength and ingenuity. That's the hero I look up to.
  • W_PPKW_PPK
    Posts: 172
    1. SP
    2. SF
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    1. SP
    2. SF
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,537
    Is anyone adding up. Who comes out on top, as Silva says!
    Reckon its SP!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    At this stage, a scant two months after release, it had better be SP otherwise we have some serious problems.

    2 or 3 years from now, we can ask the question again, and then we'll get a more balanced answer.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Is anyone adding up. Who comes out on top, as Silva says!
    Reckon its SP!
    First post in the thread on page 1!
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    Just watched SP for the 7th time. Unlike SF, the replay value of SP is amazingly high.
  • ChampionAlonsoChampionAlonso
    Posts: 389
    Simple question, simple answer: SPECTRE
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited January 2016 Posts: 4,116
    CR :D ...but answering question at hand. For me it's SF. Mendes seemed to believe in that film and the execution of what he was attempting holes and all was imo accomplished.
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    This thread is actually fascinating. I think this is the first time I actually witness "arguments" like this in real time.

    TB is one of the movies that some either love or hate. But this SP-SF thing is also interesting.

    I for one am baffled at home some people can prefer SP over SF, but yet here we are.

    It's really interesting to see how people have different opinions, and yet we're all Bond fans and like the same thing, and yet we have different expectations/opinions for the thing we like
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    dragonsky wrote: »
    This thread is actually fascinating. I think this is the first time I actually witness "arguments" like this in real time.

    TB is one of the movies that some either love or hate. But this SP-SF thing is also interesting.

    I for one am baffled at home some people can prefer SP over SF, but yet here we are.

    It's really interesting to see how people have different opinions, and yet we're all Bond fans and like the same thing, and yet we have different expectations/opinions for the thing we like

    Yes ..we're pretty much all psychotic know-it-alls too. Jk
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited January 2016 Posts: 4,600
    Well its all a matter of perspective.

    I prefer SP to SF.

    I prefer MR and DAF to FYEO and LTK.

    Different strokes for different folks. :)
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    Well its all a matter of perspective.

    I prefer SP to SF.

    I prefer MR and DAF to FYEO and LTK.

    Different strokes for different folks. :)

    And that's all the better :).
  • Scaramanga12Scaramanga12
    Posts: 562
    Can anyone please answer this abut Skyfall. How in the world did Silva plan his 'captured then escape' to time exactly with the date of M's hearing?

    Why did he think MI6's resident computer expert would plug his laptop into their own system?
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