Deadly attacks in Paris / Brussels / Nice (07/14/2016)

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Comments

  • edited December 2015 Posts: 15,117
    timmer wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    @timmer, enhance your calm, dude. I think you're reading something into his statements that isn't really there....
    Point taken @chrisisall.. Thank you.
    I don't want to draw you in. Your calmness is a virtue..
    But IMO the man is a humourless obsessive dullard.
    I can respect and tolerate diverse religious and agnostic free expression, but I don't have any time for Sharia law, which is totalitarian.

    I just took the time to read quickly your rant. Humorless I don't know. I find it ironic that you accuse me of trolling and being obsessive while you are the one writing a long, hysterical, aggressive post filled with insults, ad hominem attacks and enough strawmen to make one sneeze if he has hay fever. I can tell you don't waste your time reading me: you didn't seem to have bothered reading the post you've been so vehemently attacking.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    All these desert religions are totalitarian. Bearded men being told by fathergod what his will is, and told to impose it on everyone else as well.

    Emotionally damaged people who bring nothing positive or healing to the human race, just more damage. A system of reward and punishment and salvationism, it is so absurd I have no words.
  • Posts: 15,117
    All these desert religions are totalitarian. Bearded men being told by fathergod what his will is, and told to impose it on everyone else as well.

    Emotionally damaged people who bring nothing positive or healing to the human race, just more damage. A system of reward and punishment and salvationism, it is so absurd I have no words.

    And it's not whether you are good or not, it is whether you belief or don't. Or more precisely, whether you worship or don't.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Ludovico wrote: »
    All these desert religions are totalitarian. Bearded men being told by fathergod what his will is, and told to impose it on everyone else as well.

    Emotionally damaged people who bring nothing positive or healing to the human race, just more damage. A system of reward and punishment and salvationism, it is so absurd I have no words.

    And it's not whether you are good or not, it is whether you belief or don't. Or more precisely, whether you worship or don't.

    Someone here - I forget whom - compared the whole thing to believing in Santa and that you have to leave milk out for him, etc. Tbh I think this is not far off and basically sums up the problem - you are not dealing with a rational group of individuals. There are no 'demands' and no 'rules' (a la Cold War, IRA threat, etc).

    The weapon being used is a warped form of an ideology that has been around for so long that it has become a powerful 'même' - and idea so deeply ingrained and easily passed on from one weak-minded individual to another that you can no longer convince these ‘converts’ of any other way, and any negotiation is void & futile.

    Daesh needs to be tackled from an ideological POV – take on this Salafistic movement that have a literal interpretation of the seven ‘Verses of the Sword’ as they are known, and the Western military forces should concentrate on taking away as much of their territory as possible – their ‘Kalifate’ as they call it is integral to the movement – without the Kalifate there is no ‘Islamic State’, and the whole ideology crumbles…
  • Posts: 15,117
    @AceHole-You are right. Problem is unlike terrorist with political motivations or say the communist block of hold this adversary is entirely nihilistic. There's no possible middle ground or ways of negotiations: the world has to follow a particular brand of Islam (including other Muslims) or else.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 4,615
    The Santa comparison is spot on. Imagine murder and terrorism in the name of Santa , imagine buildings with gold domes where people gathered to send messages to Santa, imagine blowing yourself up as a tribute to Santa and imagine 26 people in the House of Lords who gained their position purely on the basis of their worship for Santa. It really is that bonkers. But the issue is that those who worship their own version of Santa have a hard time dealing with other Santa's as, by definition, they can't really see or admit how bonkers and deluded the whole thing is. Until we confront the Santa issue, there is little hope and, at present, we have a PM who is the first to remind us that we are a christian country (our own version of Santa).
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    The Santa comparison is spot on. Imagine murder and terrorism in the name of Santa , imagine buildings with gold domes where people gathered to send messages to Santa, imagine blowing yourself up as a tribute to Santa and imagine 26 people in the House of Lords who gained their position purely on the basis of their worship for Santa. It really is that bonkers. But the issue is that those who worship their own version of Santa have a hard time dealing with other Santa's as, by definition, they can't really see or admit how bonkers and deluded the whole thing is. Until we confront the Santa issue, there is little hope and, at present, we have a PM who is the first to remind us that we are a christian country (our own version of Santa).

    Superb!

    Remember above all though, people who still go on believing in Santa beyond the age of 12 should be respected by the rest of us.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2016 Posts: 18,271
    patb wrote: »
    The Santa comparison is spot on. Imagine murder and terrorism in the name of Santa , imagine buildings with gold domes where people gathered to send messages to Santa, imagine blowing yourself up as a tribute to Santa and imagine 26 people in the House of Lords who gained their position purely on the basis of their worship for Santa. It really is that bonkers. But the issue is that those who worship their own version of Santa have a hard time dealing with other Santa's as, by definition, they can't really see or admit how bonkers and deluded the whole thing is. Until we confront the Santa issue, there is little hope and, at present, we have a PM who is the first to remind us that we are a christian country (our own version of Santa).

    Well that's certainly the biggest load of bollocks I've read in a long time! Still, its trite over-simplicity gave me a laugh. Please don't mix up the fact that the rather crass Santa is now more famous at Christmas in the West than a certain baby is, with religion.
  • Posts: 15,117
    patb wrote: »
    The Santa comparison is spot on. Imagine murder and terrorism in the name of Santa , imagine buildings with gold domes where people gathered to send messages to Santa, imagine blowing yourself up as a tribute to Santa and imagine 26 people in the House of Lords who gained their position purely on the basis of their worship for Santa. It really is that bonkers. But the issue is that those who worship their own version of Santa have a hard time dealing with other Santa's as, by definition, they can't really see or admit how bonkers and deluded the whole thing is. Until we confront the Santa issue, there is little hope and, at present, we have a PM who is the first to remind us that we are a christian country (our own version of Santa).

    Imagine parents believing in Santa and forgetting they're the ones who ate the cookies and drank the milk.

    The UK is no longer a Christian nation because its citizens are not exclusively Christian and because those who are are in the vast majority non practicing and secular. Unfortunately it is by law, as it has an official Church. We need to make it truly secular including in the House of Lords.

    At least we no longer have a law against blasphemy. But when it did it's quite telling that Islamists wanted the law to extend to their faith.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Except for slavery, what wrong did Santa ever do?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,271
    If you want to live and work in the UK, you follow our laws and state religion. If you don't want to do this then get out! I'm sure IS will take you.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Except for slavery, what wrong did Santa ever do?

    Slavery in the worst conditions: imagine his Little Helpers working in a factory in the North Pole. Oh and Santa spies on little children all year long.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    If you want to live and work in the UK, you follow our laws and state religion. If you don't want to do this then get out! I'm sure IS will take you.

    This from the bloke who had the temerity in his previous post to write 'that's certainly the biggest load of bollocks I've read in a long time'!?!??!

    Utterly preposterous post Sir. I think you might have just confused the UK with Saudi Arabia.

    I follow and abide by the law of the land but there is no 'state religion' I have to follow if I wish to live and work here. I'm a free man and can choose whether or not I believe in some made up bullshit just as others can.

    But according to you I am not welcome in this country due to my not toeing the extremist Christian line you seem to be propagating?

    I'm sorely disappointed in you Draggers - or should I call you Mullah Dragonpol now? When are you getting fitted with your prosthetic hooks?

    A truly shameful post Sir.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    If you want to live and work in the UK, you follow our laws and state religion. If you don't want to do this then get out! I'm sure IS will take you.

    Law and state religion are not to be confused. Last time I checked the UK had and exercised freedom of conscience and you can believe in whatever God you want... Or no God at all. An atheist is on the £10 bills, even. And it's an archbishop from the C of E who thought it was a great idea for Muslims to be subject to sharia law.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2016 Posts: 18,271
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    If you want to live and work in the UK, you follow our laws and state religion. If you don't want to do this then get out! I'm sure IS will take you.

    This from the bloke who had the temerity in his previous post to write 'that's certainly the biggest load of bollocks I've read in a long time'!?!??!

    Utterly preposterous post Sir. I think you might have just confused the UK with Saudi Arabia.

    I follow and abide by the law of the land but there is no 'state religion' I have to follow if I wish to live and work here. I'm a free man and can choose whether or not I believe in some made up bullshit just as others can.

    But according to you I am not welcome in this country due to my not toeing the extremist Christian line you seem to be propagating?

    I'm sorely disappointed in you Draggers - or should I call you Mullah Dragonpol now? When are you getting fitted with your prosthetic hooks?

    A truly shameful post Sir.

    Well maybe I went too far there but I'm just sick to death of all the whining about the handful of bishops who happen to still sit in the House of Lords. That was what my "state religion" term was a reference to. As a side point I'm not an Anglican so they don't represent me either but I do find it tedious that @Ludovico and others here have such a problem with this fact. They seem to forget that these bishops have no power whatsoever to influence anything and are outnumbered by 700 odd other party political members of their Lordships' House. If you don't like our system you don't have to live here - it's a simple as that. What will whining achieve? Nothing. So please put a cork in it unless you intend to become an MP, get elected to Parliament and change the law through a Private Members' Bill to remove the bishops.

    And I think I don't have to comment on the Mullah Dragonpol and Saudi Arabia parts of your post, @TheWizardOfIce except to say that they are utterly absurd and unbecoming of your usual intellect and erudition.
  • Posts: 15,117
    We're not whining we're defending a principle essential to democracy. These bishops represent a Church that has been losing grounds even among Christian faiths. They do not and should not represent the citizens of this country out of religious privilege. If there was one imam among them you wouldn't be saying this.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of the Santa Crusades!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2016 Posts: 18,271
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We're not whining we're defending a principle essential to democracy. These bishops represent a Church that has been losing grounds even among Christian faiths. They do not and should not represent the citizens of this country out of religious privilege. If there was one imam among them you wouldn't be saying this.

    Why would there be an imam there anyway to either defend or attack? I don't class this as a Muslim country by any stretch so it's a non-starter for an argument.

    That said, the removal of the bishops would not get me jumping up to defend the Church of England. I'm a Presbyterian and Anglicans persecuted us for years!
  • Posts: 15,117
    Why not an imam? What qualities does a bishop have to be a Lord and have some influence, however modest, on the laws of this country? That's my issue whatever the skye daddy the priest worships. Church and state should be separated by a wall of fire.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    If there was one imam among them you wouldn't be saying this.

    On the contrary. @Drangonpol seems quite happy to have people who have no mandate from the electorate voting on issues just as long as they are outnumbered and so have 'no power whatsoever to influence anything'.

    No doubt he would embrace 26 imams who believed in sharia law being extended across the land sitting in the House of Lords also as the other lords would outnumber them?

    Maybe 26 Flat Earth Society members and 26 people who still think leeches cure all ailments too?

    Just as long as people with archaic beliefs are outnumbered by rational people then apparently the principle doesn't matter.

    I do wonder though at what number of religious lords @Dragonpol would consider our whining might have a point? 36? 106? 506?
  • Posts: 15,117
    If the Lords have no power then why is there a House of Lords? We might as well abolish it. If they do have powers then nothing qualifies a priest to hold it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    How many Satanists are there?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,271
    The opportunity is there to become an MP and change things to the way you want them.

    However, there are clearly a lot of people with archaic beliefs (God help their poor souls) still in Government who are happy with the status quo. Such a pity they can't see sense.

    I'm sure that @TheWizardOfIce will be jumping for joy when Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister and puts all of this right.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Since when are MPs the only ones entitled to express their opinion? I thought we lived in a free, democratic country. And what you are doing here is an argument at popularity. An idea is right or wrong regardless of its popularity.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 4,615
    "its trite over-simplicity gave me a laugh."

    All organised religions love to make these issues as complicated as they can in order to muddy the philosophical waters. By making the issues deep and mystical, they offer something that is complex and weave one fairy tale with another and jump at every chance make it more complex. For example, they say that:

    "religion does so much good."
    "religion offers hope and comfort"
    "religion is a steadying , consistent influence"
    "religion has the power to bring people together"
    "reigion exists beyond our physical World and cannot be explained by science"
    "faith in a religion is a virtue that brings unique positives"
    "non believers really don't understand religion and need to be more open minded rather than evidence based"

    now reread the above claims and replace religion with Santa (or fairies, whatever you like)
    it really is that simple.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I thought we lived in a free, democratic country.

    *chokes on soda; falls off chair*
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2016 Posts: 18,271
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since when are MPs the only ones entitled to express their opinion? I thought we lived in a free, democratic country. And what you are doing here is an argument at popularity. An idea is right or wrong regardless of its popularity.

    If you can't change something why keep harping on about it. Nobody (Sir Winston Churchill included) said that democracies were 100% perfect. Not everyone will be happy with the ancient rules of our unwritten constitution in the UK. I can live with that without obsessing and taking a coronary over it.

    And with that said I'm bailing of this thread and it's tiresome and has moved well beyond its remit (on terrorism in France) to become yet another excuse to harangue religion and people of faith.

    "I'm right and you're wrong...blah, blah, blah..." Well I'm not wasting any more of my time on it. The rest of you can if you wish.
  • Posts: 4,615
    sorry forgot to add one more:

    "open debate and questioning religion is seen as a taboo in many situations as can upset and offend those of faith"
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