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Come on, friend. Seriously? "State religion"? Both words have no business being brought so close to each other in one sentence. If anything, any form of organised religion should be abolished! That is the first step towards a civilized society. Allow me to explain.
If people want to practice spirituality because it gives them hope and comfort, then they must do that in the most private and intimate ways imaginable, never in a community or in an organised fashion. You see, religion is by definition irrational. It builds on concepts that cannot be defined, that cannot be made tangible, that cannot be rationally approached and that therefore cannot be agreed upon. Yet by force, through doctrine or brainwashing, entire groups of people are "united" in a belief system that really isn't theirs. They think it's theirs because their personal doubts and criticism were at one point overwritten by some kind of religious authority which can be human or material or both. But if left entirely to themselves, they would never have come to that belief system themselves. Ergo, it isn't a natural or personal thing, yet it may end up dictating some of the most important aspects of one's personality and that right there is a frightening thought. More than that, it's a sad thing because it deprives a person of his most cherished possession: himself. Organised religion, through sectarian engineering, tightly adjusts the inner thoughts and perspectives of a person, a little in some, a lot in many. Therefore, how can organised religion be honest? How can we defend it? When there's nothing quite like it in the way of luring people into a frame of reference that numbs the intellect?
Any society wanting to make progress, to create a better world, must thrive on the outrageous exclamations of its most critical thinkers. Only by constantly kicking against the establishment can the threat of ignorance, perpetual silence and immobility be broken. I'm not saying we need troublemakers, I'm saying we need the right kind of troublemakers. But organised religion keeps the masses in a state of inertia. It doesn't challenge people to be critical, rather it tells people to cling to a rigid set of archaic rules. It hijacks ethics and morale (NO to gay marriage, NO to abortion, NO to genetic manipulation of organisms, ...), it course corrects politics ("you can't vote for that person because he wants to legalise euthanasia") and it blinds people from the capacity to be intellectually free.
An individual form of spirituality is the only acceptable one. At least when all spiritual ties with other people are severed, one has absolute control over one's own thoughts. But others can guide you, you say? Others can help you to make sense of things? Then what you're looking for is a psychiatrist, a good book on history or science, a new goal in life, ... If others need to tell you what to think and how to think, congratulations, you have entered the dangerous underworld of intellectual prostitution. This is why in my opinion organised religions, state religions, religious institutions, ... all have to be abolished if we want to survive the 21st century as free people.
I'm sorry, @Dragonpol, but @TheWizardOfIce is right.
I was once asked to apologise for calling the bible, 'fiction' at a dinner party, because some people were offended on behalf of a guest whose father was a priest.
I will say no more.
:))
Seriously though, your insight serves you well. =D>
But I never said democracy is perfect, I do not even want a perfect system either, because that is utopic and utopias simply cannot be applied (that's why they are called utopias). And when you try to create one, it always backfires. I am not in any way shape or form an idealist. I am a realist, so I want to live in the best possible democracy. My issue with bishops in the House of Lords is not that is is imperfect, but that it is anti-democratic and that it is based on archaic privileges, even obscurantist ones. They have no qualification whatsoever to be in a position of power, except for having a very specific faith which means their Bible of predilection is the King James one. The UK would not be perfect when they are off the House, but we would be better without them there. They can still be bishops and practice their faith openly, they can still preach in their fancy churches and cathedrals (which I am all for keeping as artistic patrimony) partially paid by my tax money. But they have no place taking decisions for the citizens of this country, whether these citizens share the same faith as them or another (and more and more do share another faith), or no faith at all (because yes, we are a growing minority).
And I think it is relevant to this thread. Because when Islamists ask for more religious "rights," whether it's the application of sharia law or making a law against "Islamophobia" (i.e. criticizing Islam), or the teaching of Islam in public schools with a majority of Muslim pupils, they often (always?) take the privileges of the Christian faith as an example, as a justification. "Why can't we have our own law, why can't we be protected against blasphemy, why can't we do all this, since Christians can?" Now that is whine I could do without.
Now 15 years later there is no end in sight. terror attacks in Europe and this past December on American soil.
I heard a friend right after 9-11 say he was worried that this could go "nuclear". I just poo pooed his words but now look: With the Saudis and the nuclear armed Pakistan working behind the scenes (WTF side are they on anyway?) it is just a matter of time before some cell gets its hand on a chemical/biological weapon or set off a "dirty" bomb in Times Square or Picadilly Circus.
I don't see this ever ending. You can't negotiate with worldwide terror cells who act mostly independently. If we were fighting a hostile state it would be time to open peace negotiations. so what? its a different century, a different world and a different type of warfare.
This is what the human race has devolved into.
I'll second that. @DarthDimi it was simply masterful. Respect.
@RC7, a priest incapable of recognizing the bible as fiction is potentially a very dangerous man. I'm not saying the one at your party was though.
Quite. And my argument to each of these is always - why do you need to have an organized 'faith' to be able to do good in this world? Be good to others because you are HUMAN. Help others because that is the HUMAN thing to do.
I do not require a deity to tell me how to be a good human, why should you..?
This. Right here. If the only reason you do any good in this world or decide to help out others is in fear of living a bad afterlife, then your priorities are seriously misaligned. You only get one life, so enjoy it while you can.
;)
If you're good out of desire of rewards or fear of punishment you're not good at all. You're are bribed and threatened.
=))
It is basically what I preach all the time at work - intrinsic motivation.
You should endeavour to do good things because you want to & because it enriches both your own life and that of those around you - whether it's delivering quality work (ANY kind of work) in your professional life, good will toward strangers or caring for family.
As soon as your good will becomes subject to reward & sanction (which is intrinsic to every religion and cult) then there is something fundamentally wrong with either you and/or your community.
We are all human and have emotions so can be offended by many things:
"you've put some weight on"
"you drive badly"
"you're religion is bonkers"
"have a look at the cartoon I drew of your God"
etc etc
the key to a decent and civilised society is being grown up enough to handle the receipt of offence without turning to violence and also to realise that being caused offence is a direct spin off of free speech and it is worth the hassle. Something the present Pope cannot get his head around (“If a good friend speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched, and that’s normal. You cannot provoke, you cannot insult other people’s faith, you cannot mock it.”)
If everyone could understand these basic facts, the World could be a much better place but religion seems to think that the rules should be different. It's not just Muslims, many Christians seem to think that they are being attacked unfairly by the new generation of atheists (who are just using words) who know a fairy story when they see one and are happy, assertive and confident enough to call it. Plus those without a religious agenda within public life seem to tip toe around the issue and treat it with kid gloves rather than just say what they think, therefore re-enforcing this taboo of wanting to have an open and honest debate.
PS See below that the vatican is still attacking CH rather than defending free speech. Disgraceful IMHO but simply confirms the whole post:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/06/charlie-hebdo-anniversary-cover-disrespects-all-faiths-vatican-newspaper-says
By the way shouldn't both threads (CH and this one) be merged?
Can someone please explain to me why people can't just not behave like children?
You can say my mother likes to f**k goats, my football team is shit, I'm a gaylord, whatever. I'm not going to start going mental and killing people for it because I learned how to use my brain to not give a toss what someone says and let it affect me to that extent when I was about 7.
Surely if you know you are the chosen people who are going to enjoy the rewards of heaven for all eternity then you should just sit there smugly not caring what people say about your religion? But they seem so insecure they are ready to burst into tears the moment anyone says anything against their own particular fairy tale. Just GROW UP.
That kind of reminds me of when Sepp Blatter said that Qatar's backward gay rights stance just meant gays shouldn't go to the World Cup. And when someone is comparing you to Sepp it's never in a good way Francis.
They just seem totally unable to grasp the point of free speech. CH being able to portray God as a gun toting terrorist is the whole crux of the matter.
Once we say 'CH you can say whatever you want, just not about religion' we are living in a country like Saudi where they still have actual laws saying you can't commit blasphemy! Even in the Deep South they can't lock you up for saying God doesn't exist (can they? It wouldn't surprise me).
I love the new Charlie Hebdo cover. I need to get my hands on a copy.
California is that big on atheism? I understand from The Atheist Experience show that Austin is like very hippie.
Oh and today is the 7th anniversary of The Atheist bus campaign in the UK.
So that's a bus service that doesn't allow any religious travelers, or what..?
An atheist bus is a bus that does not believe in or worship its manufacturing company.
Actually a bus driver refused to drive one that had the advert. He refused to do his job. I guess he'd have reacted differently had it been a lingerie advert.
:))
Mine was always, 'Yeah? She's good isn't she?'.