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Okay.
What about someone who isn't a 'practicing Christian', but who has done great deeds in life and for humanity. Surely they can't be hell bound? Surely 'Christ' will be able to respect and appreciate such acts and not allow him or her to be damned just because they don't read the Bible and subscribe to Christianity? Aren't there Muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu believers who are worthy of salvation? What about atheists?
My point is, I believe these are all man-made labels. Man-made constructs. At the end of the day, we should be mindful of our fellow living beings and do the best we can. Live our lives honourably and respectfully. Why? Well because it's common sense, that's all. Not because we'll burn for not doing so.
There is some debate on this point I think.
One you've got no proof that God exists or that he cares about us if he does exist. And even if he did nope he doesn't have that right. In fact if God exists and is like you described him I find him unworthy of worship or even respect.
Another excellent question. It might help if I explain a bit of how I became a Christian. You see I always thought that Christianity was about good people going to heaven and bad people going to hell. Then I did a presentation in school on Jesus, I thought I was being countercultural! So I actually had to do some research for this thing and I discovered that that's not what Christian's believe at all. All of us fall below the standards of holiness of God, and in my heart of hearts I knew this about myself. But God sacrificed his Son, to pay the penalty for my sin so that i could be right with him again. Of course Christians and non-Christians are able to do good deeds. In fact the Bible even says that it is man's conscience that tells him the truth about God - we do inherently know we are doing bad and good. The fact remains that none of us is without sin - none of us 100% put God and what he wants before what we want. Pick me up on anything that doesn't make sense/needs clarifying.
I expect the answer is the former, and if so, then I find the message truly despicable.
That God is a full blown psycopath, a demonic entity.
But say I am a good person who does not put his own needs before those of others - someone who is humble, tolerant, honest and also lives by these principles, whilst perhaps even inspiring others to do the same, ie. do good.
Would it not be rather churlish & downright petty of 'God' to punish me or have me burn in hell just because I do not worship him or join his Christian movement..?
This idea that I can't be trusted to be a good HUMAN without subscribing to a faith is pretty darn patronizing.
The former because man is inherently sinful since the fall.
Going off on a tangent, Obama's response the the latest bombs was " the thoughts and prayers of Americans are with the people of Belgium".
So in the 21st Century, the most powerful man on the planet says that his country is sending some form of invisible mind transfer message to an invisible guy in the sky in the hope that the invisible guy will receive these requests and bring this to his/her attention (obviously the opportunity to stop the bombs before they blew up was missed, what was it , a day off? did not enough people pray after the Paris attacks?) and the invisible guy will help by.....well what, how does the invisible guy help under these circumstances?
When you begin to deconstruct what is happening here, there is little hope IMHO.
No they should worship God, but it is good and right that children respect their parents.
The SIZE or amount of subscribers to a certain idea does not increase it's validity or help it stand up better to the above scrutiny, quite frankly.
But is it good because God said so, or just because it is?
I also believe that we all fall short of the ideal. Every day of our lives we fall short.
That is why, to a degree, I do agree with going to church or mosque or temple. There's nothing wrong with that in principle, because at best it helps to focus the mind, to remind us to do good, to keep us on the 'straight and narrow'. However, this can also be achieved by daily meditation or contemplation, in my view (the Buddhist way). It's just far more difficult because it's not communal, but solitary.
I don't agree with the above, because there is no evidence to suggest I should agree with it.
It may surprise you to know that I don't believe in the 'Golden Rule'. Rather, I believe in something I read once in a book called the 'Platinum Rule'. Essentially, 'Do unto others how others would like done unto themselves' rather than 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. The difference is one respects the inherent differences between all of us and does not use our own view as the primary view.
Logic, compassion & evidence must go hand in hand imho when observing human kind and when making judgements/pronouncements.
I think both really.
In the words of John Newton, 'I once was blind, now I see.'
So this is an that aspect of Christian doctrine and theology that I fundamentally disagree with, although there are other aspects (as there are of all religions) which I think are beneficial and good.
'See' what, exactly? I can accept that a religion can give you clarity or support, especially in times of distress, but are you not thirsty for actual proof of the things you are told to believe in..?
Just wondering, not trying to heat up the issue any further :)
Sure, the 'fear' basis inherent in religions is wrong, If only people could take the beneficial aspects from it (which in my view are the overall principles) and ignore the fear based & potentially divisive dogma and doctrine which many times consumes them, I'm sure the world could be a better place. Easier said that done though.
The truth. It's hard to explain, you just inherently know that the Bible is true when you become a Christian. Sorry, I know that won't satisfy you. I was very anti-Christian before that moment. I guess the proof to me is how the Bible speaks to my heart, I just know it to be true.
See but I'm not 'anti' anything, really, other than being anti-killing and anti-maiming people.
The problem arises when faiths dictate that their will HAS to be foced upon others, no matter what the cost. This is what we are seeing with the über-radical Salafistic movement.
Yes, I was saying that I was anti-Christian before I became a Christian. I don't believe anyone can be forced to become a Christian, no human being can make another become a Christian. It is not possible. When someone becomes a Christian it is because God has made it happen not man.
I could not comment on all religions but, yes, it would be churlish to say that religions do not have some good bits but those who promote religion are always cherry picking parts that fit in with our modern society and don't mention the bits that he have worked out on our own are pretty bad. Nothing in the 10 commandments about rape or slavery but western democracy's without the aid of religion have managed to work out that these are bad things.
Plus the other things you mention have nothing to do with religion and exist on their own. We under mine our own sense of morality and self respect as a species if we take the line that truth, honesty, respect etc must exist within the confines of religion. They are standalone values..end of.
Like the guy 'knew' wavelink was to be the title of the new bond film?
Well given you actually believe all this tosh doesn't that worry you? If you actually 'believe' that you are going to burn in hell for eternity shouldnt you be a teensy bit perturbed? How do you go about you're daily life without having a mental breakdown? Shouldn't you be putting every waking hour into digging wells in Africa and helping the homeless to try and get some credit it in the bank? Why are you wasting your time on here? You won't have a leg to stand on when St. Peter says 'Remember 23rd March 2016? If you'd spent that day visiting the sick instead of typing a load of twaddle on the internet you might have got in but as it is its furnace time for you.'
Go out and do some good deeds @tanaka123 or you're going to burn with the rest of us!
Phew you're ok - get of jail free card. Cheers Jesus.
So God created the entire universe so us little beings created in his image could roam about freely (somewhat narcissistic but never mind let's carry on). But then he felt compelled to sacrifice his son (also himself) to appease his own anger that the beings he created did not play by the rules he had created.
Just one question - why? What's the bloody point? I can understand it's rather dull sitting on a cloud all day but why not just get a PS4 instead?
If God was so pissed off at us for living sinful lives why not just make us good rather than all this palaver of sending Jesus?
The whole thing's so illogical and full of holes it might have been written by P&W.
Priceless.
Ok hands up. You've done me there. Checkmate.
Might as well close the thread now mods as the debate is over.