Deadly attacks in Paris / Brussels / Nice (07/14/2016)

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  • Personally I don't give a flying F**K who you are or what your religious affiliation is, but if you threaten me or my own, I'll open a mega can of whoop ass on you.....!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    We really have to blame all our governments for not doing enough and letting the IS getting that strong, when we could have done so much more as early as in 2011.
    I don't see how this could have really stopped anything that happened yesterday though. They weren't using heavy duty weaponry to my knowledge. The bombs were reportedly made in France. It is the ideology that is the problem. Any guy with a knife can create havoc these days if he is of the wrong mindset.

    Not saying it would have prevented a terror attack.
    But it's a fact, that the IS was allowed to grow and gain more and more territory with now factually having two "failed" states at their hand.

    That could and should have been prevented.

    Even this evening the Germans are heavily debating if they finally should send troops and if the battle shouldn't be fought on the ground.

    The NATO will even decide if the mutual defense clause applies in this case. (invoking the NATO defense alliance).
    The trouble is, you can't win this one from the air. Russia & the US are about to find this out. These bombing campaigns have been going on for how long now?

    You have to put 'boots on the ground'. That's what IS want. Then the nightmare really begins (witness Afghanistan). There are no easy solutions to this.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117


    Very well said @DarthDimi, @patb, @SpectreNumberTwo and @Suviez_ce_parachute.

    Is it just me or am I noting a shift in tone this time compared to the Charlie Hebdo thread where more of us are feeling emboldened/outraged enough to just come out and say 'F**k religion' without caring anymore if we might offend the religious?

    @SpectreNumberTwo, if I may be allowed to just tweak your clarion call above and change it to a more all encompassing: 'Vive la Revolution. Death to Religion'!

    Religion you've had your time and now you should be running scared because more and more decent, intelligent, forward thinking people have had enough of putting up with your rubbish.
  • Please use your inability to predict anything vaguely true rather for box office predictions. Why do you have to always claim to know what will happen when you're quite clueless about the present ? Your books from the 80s are dated.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Et vive la république!

    France knows how to deal with religious threats and bullying. They have a strong tradition of secularism.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 389
    bondjames wrote: »
    The trouble is, you can't win this one from the air. Russia & the US are about to find this out. These bombing campaigns have been going on for how long now?

    You have to put 'boots on the ground'. That's what IS want. Then the nightmare really begins (witness Afghanistan). There are no easy solutions to this.

    As I've said the gloves come off, they killed innocents, then the western governments must not flinch in doing the same, we need ground denial tactics, make it a knightmare to be anywhere near ISIS, bomb the shit out of them, then when they think it can't get any worse bomb them again.

    Also in Europe/USA, terminate with extreme prejudice all who show support for islamic fundamentalism, no exceptions.

    As you may have noticed, this has got me really incensed, after three tours between IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN, I left, because I knew our PC ineffectual political paymasters would never let us win & I'm not alone as having talked long & hard over several beers with our fellow US operators. X(
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    The trouble is, you can't win this one from the air. Russia & the US are about to find this out. These bombing campaigns have been going on for how long now?

    You have to put 'boots on the ground'. That's what IS want. Then the nightmare really begins (witness Afghanistan). There are no easy solutions to this.

    As I've said the gloves come off, they killed innocents, then the western governments must not flinch in doing the same, we need ground denial tactics, make it a knightmare to be anywhere near ISIS, bomb the shit out of them, then when they think it can't get any worse bomb them again.

    Also in Europe/USA, terminate with extreme prejudice all who show support for islamic fundamentalism, no exceptions.

    As you may have noticed, this has got me really incensed, after three tours between IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN, I left, because I knew our PC ineffectual political paymasters would never let us win & I'm not alone as have talk long & hard over several beers with our fellow US operators. X(
    Fair enough. I thought the bombing campaign had been underway for months now. Also, regarding the US, I thought the Patriot Act gave quite a few draconian powers to surveil and incarcerate if suspicions arise. There is even the Homeland Security Dept that was created post-911. What more are you suggesting?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think he's suggesting extinction.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The trouble is, you can't win this one from the air. Russia & the US are about to find this out. These bombing campaigns have been going on for how long now?

    You have to put 'boots on the ground'. That's what IS want. Then the nightmare really begins (witness Afghanistan). There are no easy solutions to this.

    As I've said the gloves come off, they killed innocents, then the western governments must not flinch in doing the same, we need ground denial tactics, make it a knightmare to be anywhere near ISIS, bomb the shit out of them, then when they think it can't get any worse bomb them again.

    Also in Europe/USA, terminate with extreme prejudice all who show support for islamic fundamentalism, no exceptions.

    As you may have noticed, this has got me really incensed, after three tours between IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN, I left, because I knew our PC ineffectual political paymasters would never let us win & I'm not alone as have talk long & hard over several beers with our fellow US operators. X(
    Fair enough. I thought the bombing campaign had been underway for months now. Also, regarding the US, I thought the Patriot Act gave quite a few draconian powers to surveil and incarcerate if suspicions arise. There is even the Homeland Security Dept that was created post-911. What more are you suggesting?

    Can't really say, official secrets act, but have a guess.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I think he's suggesting extinction.
    Ok. That could do it I suppose. Make a parking lot out of the place.
  • doubleoego wrote: »
    I think he's suggesting extinction.

    Not at all, then we would be as bad as Hitler, no, just more targeted removal of sympathizers before they become killers.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2015 Posts: 17,797
    First: Sympathy to the innocents killed, maimed, and now missing loved ones in Paris, my heart is heavy with sorrow for your losses.

    Second: this attack was, like all others, a bid for power & profit. What do 'they' hope to gain from his? Precisely what they WILL get from this, a retaliatory response of some kind, more regional destabilization, more arms sales & giveaways by the so-called superpowers, more fascism in the form of restriction of freedom (read CONTROL/FEAR ), name recognition, more witless volunteers, in short, IS will be a recognized player and their backers will see increased revenue. Religion & history are tools to an end, not causes of conflict.

    Third: What do we really want? Peaceful coexistence? To overthrow IS? REALLY? Then use the money spent on war to give the peoples of the world food, hope, and a common future. This would utterly DESTROY groups like IS. React in a way they DON'T want us to.
    But that's not the goal of the puppetmasters. Power & profit is.


  • Posts: 4,615
    Just booked a ticket to the England/France friendly on Tues night, a great opportunity to get out and show support
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 389
    chrisisall wrote: »
    First: Sympathy to the innocents killed, maimed, and now missing loved one in Paris, my heart is heavy with sorrow for your losses.

    Second: this attack was, like all others, a bid for power & profit. What do 'they' hope to gain from his? Precisely what they WILL get from this, a retaliatory response of some kind, more regional destabilization, more arms sales & giveaways by the so-called superpowers, more fascism in the form of restriction of freedom (read CONTROL/FEAR ), name recognition, more witless volunteers, in short, IS will be a recognized player and their backers will see increased revenue. Religion & history are tools to an end, not causes of conflict.

    Third: What do we really want? Peaceful coexistence? To overthrow IS? REALLY? Then use the money spent on war to give the peoples of the world food, hope, and a common future. This would utterly DESTROY groups like IS. React in a way they DON'T want us to.
    But that's not the goal of the puppetmasters. Power & profit is.


    You may be right, but I'll throw you a curve ball, what could happen is a deal with Assad brokered by Moscow with the West to keep him in power if he acts to destroy ISIS in the region, ala Churchill & Stalin, better the devil you know etc.etc.......

    With regard to giving hope, that's not what ISIS is about, you could give them the keys to everything & they'd still kill you without hesitation because they can't & will not accept co-exsistance without total obedience.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2015 Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    Just booked a ticket to the England/France friendly on Tues night, a great opportunity to get out and show support

    Good lad. I was going to do that but just cant get out of work.

    What better way of showing our solidarity across la Manche than letting the frogs give Roy's shambolic rabble a hiding?

    Given that they struggle to sell out Wembley for England friendlies these days and this is likely to boost the gate to capacity, it would be a nice gesture if the FA gave all profits from the match to the families. But I'm not holding my breath.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 389
    It's funny, or would be if weren't so tragic, but I can't really be bothered with BOND while so many lie dead or dying. I'm really nonplussed at this time, a mixture of sadness & rage.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    at the core the specific belief of a fundamentalist is wrong.
    Agreed. Any fundamentalist.

    A religious one (no matter what the religion). A non-religious one. It doesn't matter.

    At the end of the day holding firm to an ideology without compromise (dogmatism) is a recipe for antagonism / lack of understanding and potential conflict.

    Completely but respectfully disagree. I can believe as strongly as I desire ...crossing the line is when that is opposed on others or when that fundamental belief dictates I cause harm to others.

    To add I'm pretty sure what they did was against Napoleonic law.
    @mcdonbb, I don't think any belief should be uncompromising. Nobody should have absolute beliefs in my view. That's my philosophy.

    We always learn new things and we should be open to changing our views based on new information. To yield to new ideas.

    Well I respect that. And I agree that we should be open to changing our views depending on new information... but also believe that sometimes that's not always a personal option.

    My opinions have changed on occasion but I've gone back to my original opinion sometimes too.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    at the core the specific belief of a fundamentalist is wrong.
    Agreed. Any fundamentalist.

    A religious one (no matter what the religion). A non-religious one. It doesn't matter.

    At the end of the day holding firm to an ideology without compromise (dogmatism) is a recipe for antagonism / lack of understanding and potential conflict.

    Completely but respectfully disagree. I can believe as strongly as I desire ...crossing the line is when that is opposed on others or when that fundamental belief dictates I cause harm to others.

    To add I'm pretty sure what they did was against Napoleonic law.
    @mcdonbb, I don't think any belief should be uncompromising. Nobody should have absolute beliefs in my view. That's my philosophy.

    We always learn new things and we should be open to changing our views based on new information. To yield to new ideas.

    Well I respect that. And I agree that we should be open to changing our views depending on new information... but also believe that sometimes that's not always a personal option.

    My opinions have changed on occasion but I've gone back to my original opinion sometimes too.
    That's fair.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,797

    With regard to giving hope, that's not what ISIS is about, you could give them the keys to everything & they'd still kill you without hesitation because they can't & will not accept co-exsistance without total obedience.
    Never said ISIS is about giving hope- they are about exploiting hopelessness & anger.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    With regard to giving hope, that's not what ISIS is about, you could give them the keys to everything & they'd still kill you without hesitation because they can't & will not accept co-exsistance without total obedience.
    Never said ISIS is about giving hope- they are about exploiting hopelessness & anger.
    I agree. They are deadly charlatans
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,797
    bondjames wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    With regard to giving hope, that's not what ISIS is about, you could give them the keys to everything & they'd still kill you without hesitation because they can't & will not accept co-exsistance without total obedience.
    Never said ISIS is about giving hope- they are about exploiting hopelessness & anger.
    I agree. They are deadly charlatans
    And those that back/manipulate ISIS are the profiteers.
  • With deep respect to all on here, you are reasonable & with some exceptions can accept alternate views, however no matter what is said, I think or hope that no one of here would kill someone else for their views, this is where we have to come together & say to the politicans, no more killing by ISIS, they need to act & F**K PC, send a message if you attack our way of life we'll destroy yours.

    Because believe me ISIS are winning....
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2015 Posts: 17,797
    Because believe me ISIS are winning....
    They are winning as long as they get the intended response with their heinous acts.
    Destroy them.
    Do what they DON'T want.
    It's really the only way to end them, & those like them.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 389
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Because believe me ISIS are winning....
    They are winning as long as they get the intended response with their heinous acts.
    Destroy them.
    Do what they DON'T want.
    It's really the only way to end them, & those like them.

    Deepest respect friend you are a reasonable human, I believe you've never had to fight these people & I hope you never will, they don't care about your vision, your thoughts, your point of view, they would kill you & your family without hesitation, they are a cancer on society, they are the greatest threat to our way of life, so never ever attempt to appease them in any way, they see that as weakness & would kill you like a dog.

    This is War, war on our life style, plain & simple.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,797
    so never ever attempt to appease them in any way, they see that as weakness & would kill you like a dog.
    How is wanting to render them impotent & powerless an attempt to appease them? I don't think I'm making my meaning clear here...
    :-??
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    so never ever attempt to appease them in any way, they see that as weakness & would kill you like a dog.
    How is wanting to render them impotent & powerless an attempt to appease them? I don't think I'm making my meaning clear here...
    :-??

    How would you render them impotent/powerless?......
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    so never ever attempt to appease them in any way, they see that as weakness & would kill you like a dog.
    How is wanting to render them impotent & powerless an attempt to appease them? I don't think I'm making my meaning clear here...
    :-??

    How would you render them impotent/powerless?......
    It's a good question. I personally think you need to install a 'strongman' in place of them. Someone who the western backers (including Russia) will tolerate. So you eradicate IS and then you have the strongman (Assad?) transition to a real democratic environment over a period of many (perhaps 10) years, but only after liberalizing and opening the economy up in a controlled fashion.

    Theoretically that works, but practically it rarely does. The strongman inevitably outstays his welcome or becomes increasingly brutal, and then is ejected by a Western power in favour of someone else. Or even worse, by an Islamist view (Iran in 1979 & Egypt in 2011) which the people dejectedly see as their best hope.

    So unless there is an orderly transition of power from strongman to true democracy with 'economic opportunity / trade' for the masses, the whole thing goes caput. It's especially important now, because a lot of these countries have young populations who are very restless...

    I think this may have actually played into the US desire to have a rapprochement with Iran......because they are a massive regional player and can have quite a bit of influence in an orderly transition/control in the region, if allowed to.

    I also think Russia/US have to work together on this as well. Two superpowers are much better than one, when trying to contain the Middle East powder keg.
  • Posts: 1,098
    The French are having a truly awful weekend...............there has also been a train crash in France killing 10 people.........a high speed train, on a test run, derailed.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,797
    chrisisall wrote: »
    so never ever attempt to appease them in any way, they see that as weakness & would kill you like a dog.
    How is wanting to render them impotent & powerless an attempt to appease them? I don't think I'm making my meaning clear here...
    :-??

    How would you render them impotent/powerless?......
    Remove what GIVES them any power at all.
    End arms sales in the region (Yeah I know, the military industrial complex would be pissed).
    End dependence upon fossil fuels (yeah I know, piss off the Saudis & make alternative energy dudes the new rich class).
    Invest in education & sustainable farming for the peoples of the world (yes, make Monsanto mad as Hell).
    Regulate pharmaceutical companies so that they cannot charge more than twice what it costs to produce medicines (yeah, f**k those carpetbagging Neo-corporate scum).

    In short- make this a better PLANET so that petty tyrannical pricks like ISIS have no way to even exist, let alone gain strength. But that takes a total turnaround from what we've been ordered to believe by our owners.

    Colour me a rogue Bond, I guess...
  • Posts: 4,615
    I think its wish thinking to think that ISIS is some form of fixed army that can be beaten and something put in it's place. ISIS did not even exist during 9/11.
    They give themselves names and we pick up on that but ISIS can disappear into the fog and a new group rise up again in a new location. It is the philosophy, the attitude, the state of mind that needs to be defeated and that is much harder than swamping a fixed area with soldiers.
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