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How seriously should we take Bond?

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  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    Getafix wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote:
    I ask the question because Spectre seems to have divided opinion. Some wishing that it had stayed closer to the darker, gritty seriousness of DC's previous films, and others praising it for going back to the Bond template including the more lighter touch - possibly straying on the Roger Moore-esque.

    So, how serious or humourous do we want Bond films to be. Personally I don't think there is a cut and dry answer to this. I love the serious gritty Bond. My favourite Bond films are FRWL, OHMSS, FYEO, LTK, TLD, CR and SP. But I also love Bond films that have the more fantastical elements to them - GF, TB, Spectre, TSWLM etc.

    Whilst I probably edge to the darker Bond - I like the way CR dealt in some degree with Bond and the affect on him of the type of job he does, his relationship with Vesper etc. But I think I've really enjoyed Spectre just because it is offering up a bit of variety.

    What do people think?

    I disagree that films like OHMSS and SP are not fantastical. The great thing about Fleming's books and many of the best films is the way they mix realism with the fantastical. Infact there's not necessarily a contradiction. Fantastical can be done deadly realisitcally. Or it can be done in a completely OTT or humorous way.

    Personally I prefer it when Bondia played reasons ku straight and then all the craziness happens around or to him. Connery was great at this, particularly in the early films.

    I think that's my point - that quintessiantial Fleming is a good mix of the realistic and the fantastical - OHMSS and SP are absolutely fantastical.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&
  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.
  • tigers99tigers99
    edited November 2015 Posts: 582
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.
  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    What do you think about the shower scene between Bond and Vesper, I loved that too?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.
  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    I agree
  • JNOJNO Finland
    Posts: 137
    I´m taking Bond seriously. Very seriously.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2015 Posts: 8,395
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    What do you think about the shower scene between Bond and Vesper, I loved that too?

    That is better because we are seeing the relationship between Bond and Vesper deepen through a shared experience. A strange way of getting to know and trust one another, I suppose. I don't mind it.

    Like I say, I have nothing against dramatic moments if they fit in and add to the story. But CR for me is just too in your face with it, rather than subtle. Like at the end, when they are in love, the dialogue is awful, IMO.

    Like 'I have no armour left.' It's all too 'on the nose' for me. Fleming or not.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    Nah.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    Nah.

    Evidence of why I don't post regularly anymore. No point.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    Nah.

    "Well, the methods of the great pioneers have often puzzled conventional minds"
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld

    The mirror scene after the stairwell fight in CR is as @RC7 mentioned an important moment in the film. For the reasons he goes into. It's a great scene that makes CR all the better for having it.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2015 Posts: 8,395
    Benny wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    Nah.

    "Well, the methods of the great pioneers have often puzzled conventional minds"
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld

    The mirror scene after the stairwell fight in CR is as @RC7 mentioned an important moment in the film. For the reasons he goes into. It's a great scene that makes CR all the better for having it.

    "I'll buy you a delicatessen, in stainless steel!"
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld

    No dice.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    Nah.

    Evidence of why I don't post regularly anymore. No point.

    A real shame too. While we might not always agree on things, I've always enjoyed your thoughts and opinion's here. I hope you come back in full force to make discussions and take names. @RC7. :)
  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    Yeah I always enjoy your comments @RC7
  • IGUANNAIGUANNA
    Posts: 1,296
    Please don't leave @RC&; I will make it up to u. :)
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,399
    .
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    Nah.

    Evidence of why I don't post regularly anymore. No point.

    There always a point ...some like to read your thoughts and others.

    May not always agree ..but nobody's perfect :D
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Bond is not a matter of life and death... it's much, much more important than that.
  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    AceHole wrote: »
    Bond is not a matter of life and death... it's much, much more important than that.

    Yes, quite.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I like that moment in CR, felt very Fleming.

    I'm not surprised, it was inserted for that very reason, I.e. for the sake of it.

    It just reminded me of times when Bond looks in the mirror and finds his cold blue eyes staring back him, it was class. And I don't think it was for the sake of it. It wasn't just thrown in, it comes after the killings in the stairwell fight - a perfect place to have it.

    I disagree. It was shoehorned in. A similar scene could by inserted into any Bond film after an action scene has just occurred. The reason it isn't is because other films feel a responsibility to entertain rather than to pause for heavy handed dramatic interludes.

    It's one of the most important moments in the film. It showcases his vulnerability and amplifies the fact he is still a blunt instrument at this point, a relative rookie and man who gets battered a bruised. Over the course of four films he has evolved into a slicker, more honed agent.

    Well said.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2015 Posts: 9,117
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    For me, the Fleming Bond should linger below the surface of any Bond, even the OTT. That being said, Bond films are supposed to be first and foremost, enjoyable romps. So, the vodka scene in TND, the ballon popping scene in TLD, the cliffkicking scene in FYEO and the 'accepting defeat' ice rink scene in OHMSS, are all examples of Fleming moments that work well in the framework of an otherwise enjoyable Bond flick.
    For me, one of the biggest problems with CR is that these moments are handled with all the subtly of a hand grenade i.e. bloodied Bond pout's into bathroom mirror. :-&

    I'm at a loss as to how you differentiate between the vodka scene in TND but that's by the by.

    If you're happy that Bond films 'are supposed to be first and foremost enjoyable romps' (not sure which you source you are quoting for this statement but never mind) I'm overjoyed for you. Some of us prefer a bit more meat on the bone rather than a Mcdonalds of YOLT, MR or DAD.

    However before you start claiming one of the most Flemingesque scenes in the series is 'shoehorned in' I suggest you go and read the opening chapter of GF where dozy old Ian goes and shoehorns in a bit of pointless character development rather than cutting straight to the enjoyable rompy stuff at Fort Knox.

    If it's good enough for Fleming to have Bond reflecting on how his work affects him then I, personally, wouldn't be so presumptuous as to say we don't need such things in a Bond film.

    But who am I to offer a voice of reason against more romping?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    The best bond films are those that clearly reference Fleming. CR is one of them and is brilliant.
  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The best bond films are those that clearly reference Fleming. CR is one of them and is brilliant.

    Totally agree with this.
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