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In time, will SP be more or less appreciated?

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  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited March 2016 Posts: 5,767
    Thank you very much sir! Took me quite a few months.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    A poor film, very very dull. I imagine it will be barely remembered in years to come.
  • stun_harvestingstun_harvesting
    Posts: 337
    It won't be anything big in a few years time, by a few decades it will only be remembered by the hardcore Bond fans.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    It will be an underrated classic like Octopussy.
  • RC7RC7
    edited April 2016 Posts: 10,512
    I think it's hard to explicitly state what will happen further down the line as none of us know. I would suggest that most TV/Film viewers (UK) don't have tastes that necessarily correlate with what Bond fans would prescribe as the superior films. For example I don't think many casual viewers could tell you too much about FRWL, or would have any significant opinion on OHMSS, but I guarantee a lot will remember and wax lyrical about LALD. Films take on a life of their own once they have left the cinema. If SP is broadcast frequently in the UK, it may cement itself as one of the more memorable entries. Likewise, if it is shunned in favour of other pictures then perhaps it will never gain any significant appreciation. Films become different beasts over time.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    RC7 wrote: »
    I think it's hard to explicitly state what will happen further down the line as none of us know. I would suggest that most TV/Film viewers (UK) don't have tastes that necessarily correlate with what Bond fans would prescribe as the superior films. For example I don't think many casual viewers could tell you too much about FRWL, or would have any significant opinion on OHMSS, but I guarantee a lot will remember and wax lyrical about LALD. Films take on a life of their own once they have left the cinema. If SP is broadcast frequently in the UK, it may cement itself as one of the more memorable entries. Likewise, if it is shunned in favour of other pictures then perhaps it will never gain any significant appreciation. Films become different beasts over time.

    Agree with this - incidentally my brother isn't a Bond fan but he always loved LALD.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I find it interesting with Spectre that the early UK reviews all stated "best Bond ever" etc etc, but the truth came out with the US reviews. Seems the British press were scared to criticise.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    identigraph wrote: »
    "best Bond ever"
    That's a bit rich, at least from where I'm sitting. Bloody hell. Especially with the back catalogue on offer.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think I remember seeing maybe 1 or 2 outlets hailing it as the best Bond ever, which it most certainly is not.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    SP will be remembered as the movie that brought the franchise back on track after a failed attempt to reboot and throwing away the beloved iconic Bond traits (GB, Bond, James Bond, etc), and the fun and humour.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Every Bond is billed as 'the best ever' by at least one outlet. SP is not the first and certainly won't be the last.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    It'll be remembered as the one that brought the series back to type. Some will think for the better, others for the worse.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    If they knew where the base was on the map, why wait to get picked up? How did they even know that there was sa car coming for them? Did they phone ahead? That's the sort of stuff that makes this story a lesser film than CR and SF, in my opinion.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    It will be remembered as the bold end to a bold era.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It will be remembered as the bold end to a bold era.
    It's not the end yet. Let's not jump the gun.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It will be remembered as the bold end to a bold era.

    I wonder if it will not get compared with the Brosnan years where the first movies were good but it let to a bad last one. Both did splendid in the BO. At least Craig has a chance to end with swansong and for Brosnan that is a closed door.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    SaintMark wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It will be remembered as the bold end to a bold era.

    I wonder if it will not get compared with the Brosnan years where the first movies were good but it let to a bad last one. Both did splendid in the BO. At least Craig has a chance to end with swansong and for Brosnan that is a closed door.

    Actually that comparison is quite good.

    GE - CR (self-explanatory)

    QOS - TND (much loved by most fans of Brosnan/Craig, more cold action, still regarded as less good than the first one)

    TWINE - SF (the failed attempt at darkness, plot twists and M being "guilty" and the villain trying to get her, story-wise both the worst in each era)

    DAD - SP (DAD went OTT after the dreary TWINE, a lot of humour and almost sci-fi comic book action stuff, SP went OTT after the dreary SF, a lot of humour and Bondian stuff that was so needed back)

    History will show if SP goes the same route popularity wise as DAD has. DAD was highly successful and loved generally back then. So is SP. But in 10 years it could be different.

    It must be bitter for the die-hard Craig fans (who despise Brosnan) that the Craig-era has turned out not that much different.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It will be remembered as the bold end to a bold era.

    I wonder if it will not get compared with the Brosnan years where the first movies were good but it let to a bad last one. Both did splendid in the BO. At least Craig has a chance to end with swansong and for Brosnan that is a closed door.

    Actually that comparison is quite good.

    GE - CR (self-explanatory)

    QOS - TND (much loved by most fans of Brosnan/Craig, more cold action, still regarded as less good than the first one)

    TWINE - SF (the failed attempt at darkness, plot twists and M being "guilty" and the villain trying to get her, story-wise both the worst in each era)

    DAD - SP (DAD went OTT after the dreary TWINE, a lot of humour and almost sci-fi comic book action stuff, SP went OTT after the dreary SF, a lot of humour and Bondian stuff that was so needed back)

    History will show if SP goes the same route popularity wise as DAD has. DAD was highly successful and loved generally back then. So is SP. But in 10 years it could be different.

    It must be bitter for the die-hard Craig fans (who despise Brosnan) that the Craig-era has turned out not that much different.

    In my experience, die-hard Craig fans tend to look down on everyone else, so I don't feel too much sympathy with them for this.

    By the way, great list with superb explanations. I never realised the two tenures were so alike.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    What struck me when I read the "Brosnan/Craig comparison" above, is how much I prefer the Craig films in all instances. You can claim there are certain similar stylistical traits, but in terms of quality there is, to be frank, no contest.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    jobo wrote: »
    What struck me when I read the "Brosnan/Craig comparison" above, is how much I prefer the Craig films in all instances. You can claim there are certain similar stylistical traits, but in terms of quality there is, to be frank, no contest.

    GE, SF and SP yes. But not QOS I can't be convinced there.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    jobo wrote: »
    What struck me when I read the "Brosnan/Craig comparison" above, is how much I prefer the Craig films in all instances. You can claim there are certain similar stylistical traits, but in terms of quality there is, to be frank, no contest.
    To me, it's like comparing the Schumacher Batman films (which is more like the Brosnan era to me) to the Nolan Batman films (definitely more like the Craig era). There is a depth & maturity to the reboot era (although far less so in SP) that is missing from the prior period.

    Having said that, Brosnan's period (with the exception of the more low key GE) was always about simple gadget laden action entertainment. Nothing more.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It will be remembered as the bold end to a bold era.

    I wonder if it will not get compared with the Brosnan years where the first movies were good but it let to a bad last one. Both did splendid in the BO. At least Craig has a chance to end with swansong and for Brosnan that is a closed door.

    Actually that comparison is quite good.

    GE - CR (self-explanatory)

    QOS - TND (much loved by most fans of Brosnan/Craig, more cold action, still regarded as less good than the first one)

    TWINE - SF (the failed attempt at darkness, plot twists and M being "guilty" and the villain trying to get her, story-wise both the worst in each era)

    DAD - SP (DAD went OTT after the dreary TWINE, a lot of humour and almost sci-fi comic book action stuff, SP went OTT after the dreary SF, a lot of humour and Bondian stuff that was so needed back)

    History will show if SP goes the same route popularity wise as DAD has. DAD was highly successful and loved generally back then. So is SP. But in 10 years it could be different.

    It must be bitter for the die-hard Craig fans (who despise Brosnan) that the Craig-era has turned out not that much different.

    Agreed on everything except your opinion for Skyfall and The world is not enough. Yes its the quite slower than their respective previous two and more grownded with more storybthan action.

    And that's exactly what makes great both in my opinion it's their respective From Russia with love more spy thriller Bond flicks.
    But you are entitled to your own opinion and here im just talking about personal preferences but at the end i like the 4 films of Both ( Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig)
    Sometimes i wonder if this fans rivalry will ever end and poor Craig fans who are dealing with two Bond actors fan bases.

    The first is Pierce Brosnan vs Daniel Craig and the second is Daniel Craig vs Timothy Dalton.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2016 Posts: 17,830
    *Meh*
    TLD, LTK,GE, TND, QOS & SP are all in my top 10..... \m/
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    here's how the series works...

    films that aren't liked or appreciated in their time, eventually find their audience and seem to find new life (ie: OHMSS, OP, TLD or LTK - and now we are even seeing pockets of people warm to QOS - which got panned and shredded on these boards when it came out)..

    films that are usually the quote "standard" or generally viewed upon as the best in the series (by fans or by mainstream media) will always have a contingent that wants to knock it down a peg or two, or five... it's the way fandom goes - if people like something, they like it and move on... if people dislike something, even if they are the minority, they will scream and yell the loudest, so it makes it seem like there are more of them then there really is..

    for my money, SP is a good Bond film - far from perfect, but also far from a disaster like some here make it out to be, and i think in time, it will find it's audience among the fans and eventually be viewed outside of microscope of being "the new one", and some feelings may soften
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    SP is predictable, like TND is predictable. I enjoy TND more, but it will never really move up my rankings too much, because of its predictability (which I find overt) and the derivative nature of a lot of it.

    My views on SP are the same, and it has declined considerably in my personal estimation since it came out (I wasn't too keen on it when I first saw it either).

    As I said then, we'll only know in 10 yrs or so where it really stands, but for this life long fan, it's distinctly bottom 5.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i try not to get wrapped up in rankings anymore - it's a messy thing, at least for me... i only go by those i like, and those i don't.. are there some i like more than others, obviously - but i still get enjoyment and satisfaction out of the rest..... there is only 1 Bond film that i really don't like (or care for).... but TMWTGG is the peculiar one - it kind of sits in limbo between those two categories... because i don't like it enough to say i like it, but i don't hate it enough to say i hate it.. so it just just kind of floats there, on it's own little island..
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    HASEROT wrote: »
    TMWTGG is the peculiar one - it kind of sits in limbo between those two categories... because i don't like it enough to say i like it, but i don't hate it enough to say i hate it.. so it just just kind of floats there, on it's own little island..
    I like TMWTGG a LOT... I just can't get it into my top ten...
    :-<
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Today I was having lunch with a fellow film/Bond fan. We hadn't seen each other in a few years. Discussions got to the recent 007 films, specifically SP.

    I had a personal revelation, please bare with me: I went on and on and on about individual scenes in SP: the pre-title sequence and the wonderful behind-the-mask work Craig did; Bond's intro scene with C ("no, I think I'll call you "C"'.); Bond's "Life Insurance" scene with Lucia Sciarra; his assassination of the assassins; his twisted "seduction" scene of the widow; the intro of SPECTRE... on and on it goes...

    I was praising a film that I was disappointed in. And it dawned: this is the strangest Bond film (for me) to date: all of these excellent and quintessential Bond scenes, yet, when you thread it together, it doesn't work as an entire film.

    The scenes, individually are so rich, and they all tell their own mini-story, like a buncha short films, but, looking at it as a full feature film, it falls flat.

    Will SP be appreciated in the future? My guess it will be seen as a beautiful failure, but nothing to be embarrassed about.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I wish I could see these "beautiful" bits that others see.
    To see one has but to look.

    Unless, you know, one is blind....
    B-)
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    peter wrote: »
    Today I was having lunch with a fellow film/Bond fan. We hadn't seen each other in a few years. Discussions got to the recent 007 films, specifically SP.

    I had a personal revelation, please bare with me: I went on and on and on about individual scenes in SP: the pre-title sequence and the wonderful behind-the-mask work Craig did; Bond's intro scene with C ("no, I think I'll call you "C"'.); Bond's "Life Insurance" scene with Lucia Sciarra; his assassination of the assassins; his twisted "seduction" scene of the widow; the intro of SPECTRE... on and on it goes...

    I was praising a film that I was disappointed in. And it dawned: this is the strangest Bond film (for me) to date: all of these excellent and quintessential Bond scenes, yet, when you thread it together, it doesn't work as an entire film.

    The scenes, individually are so rich, and they all tell their own mini-story, like a buncha short films, but, looking at it as a full feature film, it falls flat.

    Will SP be appreciated in the future? My guess it will be seen as a beautiful failure, but nothing to be embarrassed about.

    Yes, to all of this.

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