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Dr No. Now that film is the closet thing to perfect I have ever been.
While I'm (almost) always happy to sit down and watch any Bond movie, DN is one of the few that I'm always in the mood for, happy to watch it at any point. It's so damn good.
or maybe it's called not being 'nitpicky'?
based on your definition of "exceptionalism" none of us should like any of the Bond movies - or almost any movie, or work of fiction for that matter... GF by far has some of the most inexplicable reasons for what characters do throughout that film - and an overabundance of happenstance - yet that is widely considered one of the best entries (if not in many circles, THE best).....
I don't think i've seen one movie, much less a Bond movie that is 'perfect' - each film has it's share of problems... but yet, you feel like this train of thought, this "exceptionalism" is only specific to CR - perhaps because you are not a fan of it, you tend to deconstruct every little nuance of it more than those who enjoy it..... so, with all due respect - i think your rationale is a bit skewed... i have no problem with why you don't like it - but don't perceive to know why others like it - and then in a very back door way, explain why they shouldn't..
I think the only real problem with Madeline is the "I love you" line. I don't know who thought that was a good idea as there's no build up to it. It's so unbelievable and forced and it's perhaps the only real actual issue (not a nitpick) that I have with SP.
I don't remember that being in any of the drafts I skimmed pre release, which makes me think that it was a late addition by Mendes or one of the writers. But whoever added that line in clearly misunderstood the Bond/Madeline relationship and why Bond quits at the end.
Bond doesn't quit MI6 for Madeline. She's just his way out. She's not Vesper or Tracy, she isn't the love of his life, she's just something else for him to live for. His job is no longer all he has. And the reason that this applies to Madeline and not any of the other Bond girls is because, like Blofeld said, she understands his situation. She's the daughter of an assassin, she understands him. True there are a handful of other Bond girls this applies to, but those are all young agents. They're not looking for an out like Bond is. But Madeline is. She doesn't want to be involved in this world, she's only involved because of her father, so Bond is a way out for her just as she is for him. Someone to protect her, so she can finally stop hiding. That's why I liked how the OHMSS "we have all the time in the world" line was used in one of the earlier drafts. It was perfect because that's what it's like for them now. A new lease on life, an escape. But it's not love, and trying to turn that into a love story was the biggest mistake of the film imo, which is why the "I love you" during the torture scene was such a shit line. Maybe in time they would end up falling in love. But that certainly didn't happen during the film.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it and it was always just a half arsed love story. But still, it's a crap line either way and the only black spot on what's probably my favourite Bond film (I think it is, but I always struggle to decide whether I should place it over LTK or not, because that had been my favourite for so long and SP is still fairly new, my opinion could change).
It's a fucking awesome movie. Period. And it deserves every bit of praise it gets. This isn't science, it's art.
Yes! Because of that fact, she one of my favs in the series.
The funny thing is, that's the way I view most people here and most Bond fans in general. I think it was maybe 2 years ago in one thread when I mentioned that, yes I'm a fan of the movies and a life long Bond fan but honestly speaking, and speaking for myself here the Bond films overall are in general quite average and it's something I still stand by. The history, the bygone eras, certain interesting elements contribute to making the series what it is and you get people that without a doubt do indeed make excuses for these films in general to want and validate how great the series we've spent our entire lives so far watching is.
QOS would be if properly edited, even so, it is in the upper half of the franchise.
SP is perfect.
They told us how the movie would end right there.
You misunderstand me, sir. I was using CR as an example, a film I happen to think is overrated. The same rule applies to FRWL which I love. I am not using my logic to prove anything other than a simple law of human nature. That law states that, you are more likely to trust your deepest friend over a complete stranger, even if they were to tell you the exact same thing.
There is a groupthink which tells us that DAD is a PoS and CR is the second coming. This is written into culture, I did not put it there myself. As soon as you begin to swim against the tide of popular opinion, you will be met with a resistance, which, however slightly, is greater than the degree to which you are wrong. Again this can vary, but provided you have a valid point, chances are some people will disregard it unfairly. This is because there is safety in numbers, and no matter how much what you say makes objective sense, people feel more comfortable to stay with the majority.
There is a theory in gambling which states that you are always more likely to win if you bet on the underdog because the chances of a bookie underestimating the odds of the underdog far out weight the chances of the bookie overestimating the odds of the favourite. So if I had to bet on CR objectively being better than it is currently thought of, objectively exactly the same as it is currently thought of, or objectively worse than it is currently thought of, I would pick the third option every time because it is statistically most likely.
I am not claiming that CR isn't a top tier Bond film. Far from it, in my opinion it is definitely top ten or higher. I am saying that however good the film is, it is almost certainly overrated precisely because it is so loved. The majority opinion can be misleading sometimes. To learn more about this I would recommend watching the film Twelve Angry Men.
What you're describing here is SF.
Twelve Angry Men is a film which demonstrates that, one dissenting opinion, on average, over thousands of instances, has a greater chance of being correct, because people don't tend to dissent unless they truly feel like the majority is or could be in the wrong. It's much easier to stick with the majority, so there it is a tendency for people to go easy on films that are extremely popular because there is an inherent sense then majority must be correct on some level. This has been studied in psychology for decades now, it shouldn't be news to anyone. For instance there was an experiment where 4 actors deliberately answer questions wrong by putting their hands up to obviously false questions. After a few questions, the one guy who wasn't an actor went along with the rest, even though the questions were so easy. He answered wrongly on purpose.
Yes, and to a lesser extent, CR.
I think this threw me quite a bit, becuse it is more in tune with the 'I love you' rather than how Craig plays it (which is pretty cool and detached) in SP. :
"How do I live? How do I breathe?
When you're not here I'm suffocating
I want to feel love, run through my blood
Tell me is this where I give it all up?
How do I live? How do I breathe?
When you're not here I'm suffocating
I want to feel love, run through my blood
Tell me is this where I give it all up?
For you I have to risk it all
Cause the writing's on the wall"
[img]http://static1.squarespace.com/static/522a2049e4b0a0ce717e990c/t/54a80a9be4b0ac4256e42c4e/1420298915733/? format=1500w[/img]
...Ahh much better.
As a massive DAF fan, this is hilarious.
It battles with octopussy to be my most underrated Bond film.
If I was trying be to objective I would give it 6/10 but to me it is a solid 8/10.
:D :-bd
It's called being a fan, for Fleming's sake. And most of us don't need to make excuses to see how great the franchise is. It's quite obviously done great things with great talent on board for over half a century. If it was a rubbish product, it wouldn't have lasted a tenth as long.
A majority of the Bond films have a depth, complexity and relevancy that is fruitful to the eye if you only open them and see. I certainly won't stand to see these films relegated to such a low level in the cinematic pantheon.
19 TWINE
20 TB
21 YOLT
22 AVTAK
23 TMWTGG
24 DAF
But how? That's my bottom 6 movies. How can I shuffle this without doing injustice to another?
And don't tell me that DAD is missing in that list :))
Please, no. DAF is a guilty pleasure/legitimately good Bond film. Have mercy. [-O<