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Anyone love Craig as an actor, but can't buy him as James Bond?

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  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Not every Bond film has to be above all other films.
    Never suggested they did, but when one makes a statement that The Dark Knight had more memorable characters than Quantum of Solace did and can't really back it up, well...

    ^#(^
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    Ironically it is fan expectation that could destroy the franchise.

    Christopher Nolan took on Batman as a blank canvas and was not worrying if fans of Batman Forever or Batman And Robin were happy.

    But with Bond, all fan types are accounted for and that is a balancing act. I felt there should have been no apology for QOS. It was value for money at the cinema and an interesting film.

    The Dark Knight was a bleak film too, so I never understood why so hard on QOS?
    Well, you're conversing with a fellow who enjoyed Quantum of Solace, and re-watches it periodically.

    That said, I tend to agree, the "fans" are sometimes a franchises worst enemy, because they get so locked into a particular viewpoint they start talking casual consumers out of giving the product a chance. The Star Trek franchise nearly got sunk because the fan base so bashed what was being done.

    DAD's failing I can partially lay at the door of the fans. The producers kept hearing how they want "classic Bond" and OTT fantasticalness. We have a villain who had a powerful beam in space and could destroy everything. Well they delivered in that aspect but it ended up being a close call for the franchise.

    You cannot replicate the past unless you set it in that time period. And adherence to Bond formula can only last for so long in today's quickly get bored market.



  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    acoppola wrote:
    DAD's failing I can partially lay at the door of the fans. The producers kept hearing how they want "classic Bond" and OTT fantasticalness. Well they delivered in that aspect but it ended up being a close call for the franchise.

    You cannot replicate the past unless you set it in that time period. And adherence to Bond formula can only last for so long in today's quickly get bored market.
    One of the things I really appreciate about Craig's approach to making these movies is that he concentrates on making an enjoyable, engaging movie first, without sacrificing the core of the character who has been at the center of that franchise for 50 years.

  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited November 2012 Posts: 12,837
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Not every Bond film has to be above all other films.
    Never suggested they did, but when one makes a statement that The Dark Knight had more memorable characters than Quantum of Solace did and can't really back it up, well...

    ^#(^

    It does have more memorable characters though. I think Joker alone is more memorable than anybody in QOS. Much, much better villian than Greene too.
  • JamesBondJamesBond
    Posts: 669
    CIS wrote:
    I think I might be leaning toward this opinion. I loved <i>Casino Royale</i>, and I also loved Craig's acting in it, but to me I just can't accept him as the character of James Bond. It has to do with his looks and stature no doubt, but I also think his general attitude and demeanor puts me off as well.

    Again, superb actor and he wowed in CR, but I just can't watch that film and convince myself that he's agent 007, Commander James Bond.

    All 5 other actors work for me. Thoughts?

    I'm on the same boat, CIS.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    DAD's failing I can partially lay at the door of the fans. The producers kept hearing how they want "classic Bond" and OTT fantasticalness. Well they delivered in that aspect but it ended up being a close call for the franchise.

    You cannot replicate the past unless you set it in that time period. And adherence to Bond formula can only last for so long in today's quickly get bored market.
    One of the things I really appreciate about Craig's approach to making these movies is that he concentrates on making an enjoyable, engaging movie first, without sacrificing the core of the character who has been at the center of that franchise for 50 years.

    That's it. Classic Bond never threw the character out no matter how preposterous the story was. Even in DAF, Bond looks believable but the actor is not pretending like he is in Dr Zhivago. He is aware what film he is in.

    Say, Dalton was to do a campy Bond like DAF. He would totally send himself up. I am being theoretical here because he has shown in films like Hot Fuzz he can. There would be no point of him doing it serious.

    But in a film like LTK, he would look stupid in the tone of the film if he did that. Bond has to be played story contextual. I would be mortified if Craig tried to be funny all the time in a film like QOS. His bleakness suited the character in the story who is emotionally wrecked and has a bitter taste.

    Bond is explosive in QOS and there is some great acting from Craig.I love how he drinks like the alcoholic Bond is in the beginning of the film. He looks tired and still has an arduous journey ahead of him in the story.



  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    It does have more memorable characters though. I think Joker alone is more memorable than anybody in QOS. Much, much better villain than Greene too.
    Well, I think the Joker may be the best antagonist in the whole of literature; I truly believe he stacks up well when compared against any character. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say the Joker is a more memorable character than James Bond, but he's certainly every bit as flexible, interesting and adaptable as Bond's character (as is Bruce Wayne/Batman, I think).

    I agree Greene is not the strongest villain to ever appear in a Bond film; that said, I didn't find him completely unforgettable and/or uninteresting, either. And when compared against a character like the Joker, yeah, I think he comes up wanting.

  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    acoppola wrote:
    That's it. Classic Bond never threw the character out no matter how preposterous the story was. Even in DAF, Bond looks believable but the actor is not pretending like he is in Dr Zhivago.
    Well, Diamonds Are Forever is pushing the limits for me some, but essentially I agree with what you're saying here.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    That's it. Classic Bond never threw the character out no matter how preposterous the story was. Even in DAF, Bond looks believable but the actor is not pretending like he is in Dr Zhivago.
    Well, Diamonds Are Forever is pushing the limits for me some, but essentially I agree with what you're saying here.

    DAF is camp, but Connery still gives a cool Bond performance. He looks serious but sidesteps himself looking a fool and like he does not know. And it is ridiculously camp.

    But the wittyness of the film is weaved in so well. They are not just pulling one liners out of thin air. but making them so appropriate for the scene. Tom Mankiewicz and Maibaum were amazing writers even in a paper thin plot.

    But I enjoy it because it is not pretending to be a serious take on Ian Fleming or Bond. If it was trying to marry up dead serious with blatant camp then that would clash.

    This hard to explain in writing. Verbally it would be easier.



  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I've seen a number of films that Craig has been in and I just don't care for him as an actor. As for Bond, I couldn't dislike Craig more, which is funy as when he was announced, I was optimistic at the thought of the films changing direction.

    1. Dalton
    2. Lazenby
    3. Connery
    4. Moore
    5. Brosnan
    6. Craig
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