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What next for Madeleine Swann

gumboltgumbolt Now with in-office photocopier
in No Time To Die Posts: 153
If Bond 25 is to be a continuation of SP with the same principal cast, what should happen to Swann? This is the first time that there seems a dramatic requirement for a "Bond girl" to return in the next film and this is actually quite significant in the history of the series.
It seems a bit obvious and predictable that she gets murdered by Blofeld/Spectre and this brings Bond back to action for revenge. I would rather she was revealed as a villain, perhaps faking her death. Perhaps she could be a secret Spectre agent who wants to replace Blofeld and who used Bond to kill Blofeld in SP and again by staging her murder in Bond 25 to provoke him to kill ESB? That would mean some retcon of Spectre re her motivations but it could be done.
Any thoughts?
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Comments

  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    I have no desire to see Madeleine turned into a villain. It would destroy one of the only good things about Spectre and it would be a complete retcon, as there's no foundation for it laid in Spectre.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    I think the most likely thing that will happen is that they'll just mention her offscreen fate and move forward.

    But, as much as EON likes repeating themselves, I'm sure they'll kill her off, despite the fact we've already had the dead girlfriend motif play out in the Craig films already and then spent a fourth of his tenure with him searching for closure on that event.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    No Death, no turning evil. Just have her be Bond's companion.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,231
    Making her a villain would be complete rubbish. My idea: like Tiffany Case in the novels, have her fall out of love for Bond. Mention that the relationship has broken down, or even show it onscreen briefly. Breakups, especially when the couple has been through so much, can be even more poignant than death.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'd prefer they just ignore her or kill her off. Or even have her as a Trench type character if they want.

    I would prefer Bond to have a new companion next time out, and in every new film.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'd prefer they just ignore her or kill her off. Or even have her as a Trench type character if they want.

    I would prefer Bond to have a new companion next time out, and in every new film.

    If they kill her off we'd have yet another revenge film, only to repeat the same story arc shared by both CR and QoS in the same era.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Making her a villain would be complete rubbish. My idea: like Tiffany Case in the novels, have her fall out of love for Bond. Mention that the relationship has broken down, or even show it onscreen briefly. Breakups, especially when the couple has been through so much, can be even more poignant than death.
    Maybe, maybe.
  • gumboltgumbolt Now with in-office photocopier
    Posts: 153
    Bloody women!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'd prefer they just ignore her or kill her off. Or even have her as a Trench type character if they want.

    I would prefer Bond to have a new companion next time out, and in every new film.

    If they kill her off we'd have yet another revenge film, only to repeat the same story arc shared by both CR and QoS in the same era.
    True. I still want Bond to have a new girl in each film, so if they go down the Trench route, I'll be happy. I didn't quite buy the romance anyway (from his perspective) so that will work for me. I saw her more as his way out, with some mutual appreciation, rather than some deep affection.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Just have her disappear, and if needed, let Bond acknowledge it with a throwaway line later on in the film. If you ignore it entirely, it won't feel right, and if you kill her off, it'll indeed be yet another revenge-driven film, which we don't need.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2016 Posts: 28,694
    I think the only option is to have Madeleine killed by a member of SPECTRE as a sort of "message from Ernst." It'd be Lea's Swann song in the role. ;)

    At the start of the next film Bond and her will likely be in a retreat of some sort, living a quiet life, with Bond completely uncommunicative with those at MI6 about his whereabouts. The PTS could even shy away from showing Bond at all and instead show Blofeld escaping his capture. Or the film would start showing Bond and Madeleine off in their bliss together and then, inevitably, something occurs-someone appears with aims to kill them both-and she dies in the crossfire, setting the tone for the whole feature.

    While many would see this coming and call it cliche, I think it's a far better option than just having Bond say, "oh, me and Maddy didn't really work out" without detailing anything about what actually happened. Nor do I think it's a great idea to just start anew with another Bond girl. That worked fine in the 60s when there wasn't such an emphasis on continuity and the consequences of Bond's world and his interrelationships at home and abroad, but in the current slate of films I expect for the decisions made that weigh heavily on Bond and his life to be taken very seriously. He is ready to drop his life and begin a new one with Madeleine at the end of SP, so just glossing over her with a throwaway line just doesn't work.

    From my perspective, the only course to follow is to have her die, spurring Bond to come back one final time to take out Blofeld once and for all. This era deserves a hellraiser of a finale, and in this kind of film we'd have a Bond who essentially has nothing stopping him from doing what must be done, even if it means his demise. I'd love to see some of Fleming's YOLT adapted in here, especially the garden of death and castle, as I've said previously. I think it'd be a really gothic, dark place to take the next Bond. And with Waltz rumored to be open to returning, we could see some of this.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Kill her and I'm out. Seriously. I'll wait for a new Bond & a new production team.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,226
    I prefer the approach took when they made, say Licence To Kill and had no mention whatsoever of Kara Milovy. Or Octopussy how Melina was never mentioned. I want the next film to be a stand alone....with or without the Spectre organization.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Have something dangerous happen with Her and Bond, she can't take it, he doesn't want to live without the thrill and she leaves him Gala Brand style and he goes back to MI6 like clockwork. No death, no she's actually a villain twist. Like Bond and Camille they kiss and separate.
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 326
    Murdock wrote: »
    Have something dangerous happen with Her and Bond, she can't take it, he doesn't want to live without the thrill and she leaves him Gala Brand style and he goes back to MI6 like clockwork. No death, no she's actually a villain twist. Like Bond and Camille they kiss and separate.

    This. But She did already go through a bit of this with Bond in SP. IMO, have Swann vanish in a plot related sense. A kidnapping perhaps. Yes, the mission is personal again for Bond and it will compel him drive through the story to save her instead of avenging her. Then she can leave to which Bond accepts because he knows they're both better off separate.
  • 001001
    edited January 2016 Posts: 1,575
    Swann lake... ;))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I hope it's a grisly affair.

    Predictably dark this is.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    I think the more important question is where does Craig's Bond go? What would he do in his off time? It would be interesting what they could do with a civilian Bond. It could be a great opportunity to bring in the Spang Brothers and have Bond go against their Spangled Mob and they could threaten Madeleine and Bond takes the law into his own hands and deals with them But she can see He's just not used to a civilian's lifestyle so she leaves him and he goes back to MI6.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Have something dangerous happen with Her and Bond, she can't take it, he doesn't want to live without the thrill and she leaves him Gala Brand style and he goes back to MI6 like clockwork. No death, no she's actually a villain twist. Like Bond and Camille they kiss and separate.

    This would be the best option. But oops they already bungled that by having her do it already in the finale of SP.

    There really aren't many options left open to them.

    Kill her is the most obvious. Too obvious - but that probably won't stop them.

    Let her leave Bond Gala style. Has to be the favourite if they don't bump her off.

    Let them get married and live happily ever after. Not an option unless they want to f**k the whole series up.

    In one of the John Gardner books Bond got serious about a girl and at the end she was in a coma. In the next book Bond used to visit her and I think in the end had to turn the machine off. Different but I don't want Bond films reduced to some tearjerking melodrama with him sat at a hospital bed.

    Probably the best way out of it is to have a scene with Bond and MP at the start with him sat drinking vodka and saying it didn't work out.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,231
    Murdock wrote: »
    Have something dangerous happen with Her and Bond, she can't take it, he doesn't want to live without the thrill and she leaves him Gala Brand style and he goes back to MI6 like clockwork. No death, no she's actually a villain twist. Like Bond and Camille they kiss and separate.

    That's actually really good. And original (at least in the movies).
  • OmegaXOmegaX Singapore
    Posts: 39
    To be honest I didnt give this much thought, in my fanfiction Bond 25, I had her killed off in the first act, and for Bond to go for revenge...only for M to stop him and force him to go on investigative duty...only to find out that it is related to SPECTRE after all.

    I didn't like the fact that killing her off would be too similar to Vesper, but it also serves to add some weight to Blofeld's claim that he is behind all the deaths. That being said, having her killed in SP (the MI6 demolition scene) would probably be a better option than any of the ones that they had given us to speculate.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Death. Within the first three seconds of the PTS. Hell, work it into the damned gun barrel.

    That's hilarious!! =))
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Honestly, I believe EON are just going to reboot again after Craig is done anyway (what other option do they have?), so all bets are off. They could do basically anything they wanted in the next film.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,537
    Nothing. Don't trow a way the return of
    Bond finaly get the woman
    and Skyfall symbol
    of no return when Bond driving a way with woman in Astin Martin.
  • CowleyCowley
    Posts: 486
    I fear killing Swann off at the start of Bond 25 for Bond to return to the service would just invite some people to make lazy comparisons to The Bourne Supremacy rather than see the nod to OHMSS.

    She could always be incapacitated in some way...or have her the lead Bond girl again. Léa Seydoux could be even more sensational with better material.

    The back to basics reboot can come once Craig leaves and I sincerely do hope we see Craig one more time.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Cowley wrote: »
    I fear killing Swann off at the start of Bond 25 for Bond to return to the service would just invite some people to make lazy comparisons to The Bourne Supremacy rather than see the nod to OHMSS.
    Indeed it would, and rightly so in my view. That horse has already been beaten to death. I think they'll have to come up with something else. I would prefer if she's just a companion of Bond's in B25, briefly seen in one early sequence before he moves onto his mission. Their 'relationship' can be briefly explained during their scene together, perhaps evoking FRWL with Trench.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    bondjames wrote: »
    That horse has already been beaten to death.

    Which pretty much assures that EON will go down that path. They love beating a dead horse as much as anyone in Hollywood, with their obsession with the "this time...it's personal" plot device being a prime example.
  • CowleyCowley
    Posts: 486
    bondjames wrote: »
    Cowley wrote: »
    I fear killing Swann off at the start of Bond 25 for Bond to return to the service would just invite some people to make lazy comparisons to The Bourne Supremacy rather than see the nod to OHMSS.
    Indeed it would, and rightly so in my view. That horse has already been beaten to death. I think they'll have to come up with something else. I would prefer if she's just a companion of Bond's in B25, briefly seen in one early sequence before he moves onto his mission. Their 'relationship' can be briefly explained during their scene together, perhaps evoking FRWL with Trench.

    Yep. The Craig era doesn't need any more dead Bond girls or traitors. Perhaps Swann could hold information that leads Bond to bring down the rest of SPECTRE.

    Or indeed have them split (on or off screen) because despite tossing his gun away at the end of SPECTRE Bond isn't the settling down type she briefly led him to think he was after all.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,231
    bondjames wrote: »
    Cowley wrote: »
    I fear killing Swann off at the start of Bond 25 for Bond to return to the service would just invite some people to make lazy comparisons to The Bourne Supremacy rather than see the nod to OHMSS.
    Indeed it would, and rightly so in my view. That horse has already been beaten to death. I think they'll have to come up with something else. I would prefer if she's just a companion of Bond's in B25, briefly seen in one early sequence before he moves onto his mission. Their 'relationship' can be briefly explained during their scene together, perhaps evoking FRWL with Trench.

    So far the best idea on this thread came from @Murdock. Have her leave Bond.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    It could be like Death Wish 2 when Paul Kersey's fiance leaves him when she finds out he's resumed his Vigilante ways.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    This is where the difference between novels and films comes into play again. I found her threat to leave Bond in SP terribly hollow. Hence when she reappeared as a damsel in distress it was another one of those 'predictable' moments in the film.

    My point is, no one leaves Bond in the films, at least not unless she's a villain. It's unheard of. That is part of the film legend.
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